[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[Emo]

Maybe 3 Hooting Mandrills and one Probe to fill the grave but I like the Rancor to

I really like Hooting Mandrills in the place of mongoose because it is an answer to the cards that give this deck the most problems: abrupt decay, counterbalance, and True name nemesis.

The only card that sees a LOT of legacy play that affects mandrills (and didn't affect mongoose) is swords to plowshares (but you save your counters for those)- I think Delve 5 and the cost of only one forest gives the option to be live turn 2 or 3 while having mana up. Its low enough of a cmc that it can still be cast in the face of an active DRS-

I don't think it has much disynergy with Goyf because your opponent has a GY too. Downside is drawing this in multiples sucks

[Vandalize]

I think Hooting Mandrills is a 2-of at best. It also would be better fit in a list that packs the old-school Thought Scour.

I don't think I'd go below 3 Nimble Mongoose, tho. Swords to Plowshares is still a thing in this format.

[trollking21]

I could see howling mongrel see play but the biggest issue I have is that it is so anti-synergistic with goose. Often goose is not threshed till 4 or 5 and if you delve 4-5 cards out of the grave to cast this guy your goose is going to be unthreshed till the late late game.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Also, it's quite funny how an early RiP effectively counters all the copies of this card.

[trollking21]

Also, it's quite funny how an early RiP effectively counters all the copies of this card.

No more so then goyf or goose. In fact against grave hate I would say this is better because once it's down you don't care about grave hate anymore.

[Emo]

In playtesting I am going to replace 4 geese with 2-3 copies of this card because ultimately the two just could not co-exist in the deck.

Any gravehate argument for this card can basically be applied to goyf or goose and I would argue this guy probably comes out a turn earlier than goose reaches threshold. I think the fact that he can be played for G and the fact that our countermagic is effective against all the cards in the format that can remove it make it a viable threat.

[TraxDaMax]

Personally the reason I play RUG instead of BUG are Nimble Mongoose, Lightning Bolt, REB and Stifle. There are enough games where my opponent is looking at his removal spell cursing to himself because of the Shroud. I agree however that that new card looks decent as a 1-2 of.

[poxy14]

im looking to play this beast with RUG Zoo, together with its brother... Kird Apes and not with em mongeese. But then again it has the downside of exiling bullets from ur own grims..
i agree too with VANDALIZE bout the thought scours for this..good thing i didnt trade my foils yet! im excited bout this card, but tests need to prove its worth.

[Demonic_Attorney]

Personally the reason I play RUG instead of BUG are Nimble Mongoose, Lightning Bolt, REB and Stifle. There are enough games where my opponent is looking at his removal spell cursing to himself because of the Shroud. I agree however that that new card looks decent as a 1-2 of.

Again, as it has already been said a lot thus far, our cheap efficient counters take care of the predominant spot removal in the format right now.

Moreover, whether you play 2, 3 or 4, this card, it simply CANNOT be viable and plausibly be compatible with Nimble Mongoose in the same deck. In short, either you play Nimble Mongoose or you play Hooting Mandrills; its one of the other. Indeed, there is no 3x of Nimble and 2x of Hooting. You would only be undermining the power of the deck and cutting your own throat by playing both.

In playtesting I am going to replace 4 geese with 2-3 copies of this card because ultimately the two just could not co-exist in the deck.

Any gravehate argument for this card can basically be applied to goyf or goose and I would argue this guy probably comes out a turn earlier than goose reaches threshold. I think the fact that he can be played for G and the fact that our countermagic is effective against all the cards in the format that can remove it make it a viable threat.

I concur!

[TraxDaMax]

I'll agree we have counters for that, but mongoose can be deployed turn 1 also.
They both have upsides and downsides I guess.

[trollking21]

The good thing about him is he allows us to push the aggro role better. You can realistically cast him before turn 3 if you need to 2 turns before goose is threshed normally and he very effectively pushes damage through. I think he would be very good in the 7 bolt versions looking something like this
4 delver
4 goyf
3 new-guy
1 TNN/clique/library (because I am hesitant to slam 4 delve cards into the deck)
4 stifle
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 bolt
4 force
4 daze
3 chain lightning
2 pierce
1 snare
18 land

[RiverCake]

I think Hooting Mandrills is a 2-of at best. It also would be better fit in a list that packs the old-school Thought Scour.

I don't think I'd go below 3 Nimble Mongoose, tho. Swords to Plowshares is still a thing in this format.

I could see howling mongrel see play but the biggest issue I have is that it is so anti-synergistic with goose. Often goose is not threshed till 4 or 5 and if you delve 4-5 cards out of the grave to cast this guy your goose is going to be unthreshed till the late late game.

I think they can't go both in one deck

Also, it's quite funny how an early RiP effectively counters all the copies of this card.

Goyf and Nimble Mongoos are all in all worse with RIP on the board. He is unaffected from grave hate after the cast

I'll agree we have counters for that, but mongoose can be deployed turn 1 also.
They both have upsides and downsides I guess.

I think you dont want to cast mongoose on turn one he is just affektivafter turn 4-5 after Threshold.

[TraxDaMax]

Actually it gets cast often enough on turn one. Because on the play that means only FoW can counter it.

[RiverCake]

Actually it gets cast often enough on turn one. Because on the play that means only FoW can counter it.

Thats true! but I like to keep mana open to counter/stifle/fake counter ( only when I cant cast Delver)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Thats true! but I like to keep mana open to counter/stifle/fake counter ( only when I cant cast Delver)

I like to play my threats asap, even if Mongoose is a mere 1/1. Remember, we're tempo, so baring some obscure interactions/cases (like GP showing they're on one fetch or being in need to not run into Daze), I prefer to cast my dudes immediately to press since the very beginning and then apply the usual StifleDazeWaste plan. Of course, of course, ideal circumstances and all that jazz. It's not like I never waited with my dudes, but ever since I deploy them as aggressivelly as reasonably possible, I feel much more confident and relaxed.

On the 4/4 monkey: what I dislike about the ape is how exactly it once again relies on gy. Yeah, all of you are right that RiP does nothing once this hits the play, and I also know it. What bothers me is the fact that it cannot be played by normal mana, unless considering some late lategame with all our lands in play. So it basically forces you to play the dude pre-emptively (yeah...) on the first occasion; not when you want to play it, but when you can. This also brings all sort of trouble like running into counterspells, or not having mana for our own counterspells, which is especially bad if the next spell cast will be any kind of Terror or even Rest in Peace that shuts down goyfs and lets us with only the ape in play and no way to cast any other.

The fact that it suppresses mongoose is pretty unfortunate, too. And I really dislike to cut it, as its shroud won me games I had no business to win, like dealing twelve to an unflucky guy holding double Swords... and a Decay on top of them.

Idk. I really want this card to be good. Last time it was really nice to add a beater that cost 0.3 bucks.

Speaking of which: if no other good came from this card than that it becomes a Tarmogoyf Lite, it'll be still pretty nice. All those Legacy initiates will have a dude to play with.

[mextremartini]

I'd love to play with this card, the idea of dodging conterbalance, tnn or even RiP is really convincing. But, we also need to remember that there are SUBMERGES. And thay are really good job by dealing with this guy.

[Ralf]

I'd love to play with this card, the idea of dodging conterbalance, tnn or even RiP is really convincing. But, we also need to remember that there are SUBMERGES. And thay are really good job by dealing with this guy.

And Chalice...

[TraxDaMax]

Thats true! but I like to keep mana open to counter/stifle/fake counter ( only when I cant cast Delver)

Unless you know what you're up against, game 1 on the play I think deploying threats > holding up stifle mana. I once played the safer road of RUG like you suggest, but you'll often just lose tempo because of this I've realized over ther years. RUG Delver is a tempo deck, not a control deck and should be played like a tempo deck. Counters and Stifle are still good on turn 2, unless they get to see your hand somehow.
I like BedDeckPlayer's explanation of why he doesn't like the new 4/4. Basicly the same reason as myself.
Can you imagine nuking your own graveyard just to have your dude StP'ed, or bounced with Jace/Venser/Submerge? The difference between this new ape and Tombstalker is that Tombstalker is 5/5 and flies. Which really is worlds ahead in strength. A 4/4 still get's blocked by Goyf a decent amount of the time.

[Emo]

The difference between this new ape and Tombstalker is that Tombstalker is 5/5 and flies. Which really is worlds ahead in strength. A 4/4 still get's blocked by Goyf a decent amount of the time.

I don't think Tombstalker is a fair comparison because it costs BB and delve 6. From my expierence RUG operates optimally* off two lands and rarely likes tapping out on its turn; therefore, being able to cast this for G and hold up another land for spell pierce, spell snare, bolt makes this guy much easier to deploy than tombstalker and allow you to continue your tempo plan- also mongoose gets blocked by Goyf a decent amount of the time as well.

[mextremartini]

Hey guys, I was thinking about another awesome interaction that the new guy could provide, and it is that with him and goyf is possible to trade 2 pierce for 2 STUBBORN DENIAL, which is a big deal in late game. Then, i was thinking about the "new RUG"

4 delver
4 goyf
3 hooting mandrils
1 TNN

4 stifle
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 bolt
4 force
4 daze

2 forked bolt
2 stubborn denial
2 Probe (fuel for gv)
18 lands