Largely because nobody talks about those color combinations in real life.Originally Posted by TheArchitect
inb4 I play Raka Rabble.
Excellent article as always. Both seam strong, SnT and some form of Ctrl and Delver will benifit as you suggest. Maybe Dig might even convince me to sleeve up Resets again. Very interested to see how you develop the ideas you have started.
Names....... those names are terrible force fed garbage for kids from WoTC, that said it's no worse than SCG's inssecent labelling of Team America as BUG Delver. Legacy has a long and interesting history, take the time to learn / read about it as opposed to this spoon fed crap.
I have no idea what "Sultai" means.
Other than that, excellent article on an interesting subject. I hope you are right that the blue Delve cards can set some new things in motion for Legacy. As anyone who has ever played with Tombstalker knows, getting 6 cards in the graveyard for Delve isn't particularly hard in Legacy. It is Tombstalker #2 that can be problematic, and for this reason Tombstalker is often played as a 2-of, more rarely as a 3-of. Since the new blue Delve cards actually draws more cards, and thus makes getting more cards in the graveyard easier, as you pointed out in the article, it sounds reasonable that some decks could run up to 4 of these things and get away with it.
Yeah, I found the names egregious. For a Standard article, such labeling might make sense, but retroactively renaming a bunch of Legacy decks is ridiculous. I suspect it was not Carsten who chose those names. I do think Carsten should protest the names and point to the overwhelming opinion expressed in this thread as backup. SCG can and does revise naming conventions based on feedback and common usage.
Carsten, thanks for the analysis. We'll know soon enough where these cards lie on the spectrum of good to too good.
Oh man... If this article is right about those two cards being big in legacy I'm gonna be awful happy with my surgical extraction/extripate/snapcaster deck in the brave new meta these things create
This is ridiculous, two cards with a ton of potential after many of the same users complained the set was awful are presented here. Instead of that, complaining that WotC has names for color combinations is the focus of discussion.
A) These cards have yet to be demonstrated as amazing and each has glaring flaws and thus we don't care.
B) The names really are terrible.
A) The question is more 'are they good enough' than 'are they too good' at this point. And this is the topic. Carsten has argued that both cards are quite powerful, which is something we can debate. So far, I hold with him, because not many people have a problem casting the first Tombstalker and the effects are objectively quite powerful.
B) Of course the wedge names, especially for RUG and BUG, suck but there's already a thread (two threads, really) for bitching about them.
I've heard people say Dega, albeit rarely.
People using Dega didn't start because of hipster creed, because no one uses the other Apocalypse names. People used Dega because there was nothing else to really call it. UWR can be called American (or Patriot), RUG and BUG have... RUG and BUG, and WBG has Junk. No name had ever really been made for WBR, possibly due to general lack of interest in that color combination, so people took the closest thing to an "official" term for it, Dega. No one bothered with Raka or Necra because there were already terms established for them.
My problem isn't that Wizards made names. My problem is the article, for no real reason, using those names instead of the far, far more familiar ones that readers would be accustomed to.
It's dumb that everyone is in here complaining about the name of the archetypes rather than the actual discussion points of the article. One can figure out what archetype he's talking about from the context clues alone, if it's really a struggle pull up a spoiler/preorder page and check out the charms. Really, who gives a shit what you call the deck, we know what 65/75ths of the list he's talking about is.
Are Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise the real deal or are they going to prove to be garbage? This was the actual interesting part of Carsten's article. It sounds like he's done some limited testing with them and has drawn some conclusions about the shells that work, etc. The Delve cards, the Murder variant and maybe the Hooting Mandrills card seem like the only ones that could make any real splash in Legacy. This is more than could be said for anything out of Gatecrash, Dragon's Maze, Theros (Swan Song?) or Journey to Nyx. M14 and Born of the Gods I guess gave Young Pyromancer, and Spirit of the Labyrinth.
IDK just seems pathetic to get wrapped up in whether one calls BUG - BUG, Ana or Sultai, I can't see caring.
TPDMC
Eidolon of the Great Revel (Journey into Nyx) had a bigger impact on Legacy than Spirit of the Labyrinth did.
Fair. Still we've seen ~4 playables since RTR and people are concerned with the name each deck is wearing.
TPDMC
Add Gitaxian Probe, Intuition and maybe Merchant Scroll for max business spell. You'll have a fizzle rate after going SnT -> Omniscience -> Dig Through Time into lands and counterspells, but the ability to cast Dig Through Time for value seems major.
I call Dega German (bad history joke), Italian (based off of Team Italia), or Oros (Planar Chaos Dega Dragon).
Ana is either BUG or American (based off of Team America)
Ceta is RUG or Canadian (based off of Canadian Thresh)
Necra is Junk. Enough said.
Raka is Patriot (which, ironically, makes little sense outside of the States).
None of the new names even stick. At least the Alara shards (as well as the Ravnica guilds) stuck. Might be because of a lack of flavor for players to identify with (not necessarily play with).
I guess that at least in UK, Russia, France, Australia, Czech Republic, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway or Panama it should make as much sense as in USA?
I didn't put some countries that I'm not sure if they play magic.
Hmm ... true ... guess Im used to patriotism as a primarily American concept as opposed to a universal concept.
I doubt these will new names will stick, but i'm sure there will be people who use these names just to piss the grey beards off.
Thing about the Alara block names is the names were actual places and most of the archetype associated with each matched flavor wise with the deck, where as the Khans block is just names of clans.
The Ravnica guilds are essentially names of groups too, and you don't hear people saying Izzet Delver or Boros Painter.
And besides even flavor wise its not like the Temur Clan would have a bunch of Wizards that turn into Insects and who might also have a pet mongoose.
Nobody is going to call RUG Delver (Or Canadian Thresh) Temur Delver. Because the Temur wouldn't hang out with 3/2's that cost 1 U.
Maybe not in Legacy, but there has been at least one occasion when Ive heard the term Boros Deck Wins. Other guilds dont pop out in terms of play, but I definitely identify with the Izzet Guild's flavor.
Anyhow, regarding cards to look out for, I wanna see something that uses Howl of the Horde effectively if that is possible.
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