[Deck] 12 Post

[Rock Lee]

I generally agree with Rock Lee on Dig Through Time. At that point where you're casting it, you should probably be casting Primeval Titan and Kozilek instead. If you really want that extra hand manipulation you probably should be using Ponder instead. You shouldn't ever need 2 cards at once.

A small nitpick on the primer, you warned people in bold letters that the core is set in stone but I'm pretty sure Vesuva is no longer considered a 4-of and that people generally only run 2 eldrazi now.

too true! I'll fix that.

[sauce]

RockLee, I took your decklist for a spin tonight, here is my feedback after like 6 matches:

I changed the sb a bit because I don't own Mindbreak traps on MTGO.
Here is a screenshot of the list though: http://i.imgur.com/wkRo5ps.jpg

• vs BUG I really missed both Cavern of Souls and Khalni Garden
• vs Shardless BUG I got punished for having Phyrexian Revoker instead of Pithing needle when I needled Liliana on 7 and he top decked JTMS bounced Revoker and ultimated me
• There is not enough Storm and Food chain to warrant revokers over Pithing needle on MTGO
• Needle is better G1 vs Miracles by a wide margin
• I boarded Chain of vapor out a lot
• I really wanted to cast Memnarch, have not yet
• 2nd Candelabra is nice

2014-09-11 NEW videos are here:

• vs Burn (w/ my version) - http://youtu.be/8oP9yFUO92E (G1 only since opponent rage quit)
• vs Dredge (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/vgi6FDEpQm4
• vs Goblins R/w (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/9HCD3_FM53g
• vs Shardless BUG (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/87nL-_CnH8o
• vs Esperblade (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/RZEmknRZk38
• vs BUG Delver (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/SAsp-MkshfU
• vs Belcher (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/8B7rU2etBao

Overall I feel like you're much stronger vs combo with this list but somewhat weaker to creature removal since needle does not get bolted/plowed/jaced/lilianad/innocent blooded.
I also did not like Chain of vapor, I never wanted to cast it. I could see it being nice when they play their last card and plus Liliana as you triumphantly slam CoV on Liliana in response but beyond that I found the "best" use for it to cast on t1 DRS. Versus BUG it may just not be a great card, they either end up bouncing your Revoker or it basically is a healing salve+. I almost feel like 2 CoV and 1 Moment's peace is stronger in your version.
What do you like CoV vs, is it just another card vs Food chain for your meta?

[Mockingbird]

I saw it, and asked myself when it would be better than ponder. Couldn't come up with any times.

Off the top of my head in Ponder vs. Dig Through Time:

• During the opponent's End Step (Ponder is a sorcery, Dig Through Time is an Instant).
• Show and Tell and Primeval Titan are both in top 7.
• Force of Will and a blue card are in top 7.
• "I need more time against this Tarmogoyf," let's Delve and find the Moment's Peace and/or Crop Rotation.
• If you're in a game that's going to last past turn 5.

And that last one is why I'm wary but still interested to see how it works. Decks, including us, try to clinch a game around turn 3 and 4, and this card doesn't go live until after that, which means its use falls into two rolls:

• Recovery
• Insurance

What I think is that this card is legacy worthy, but probably more so in another strategy. However, the effect is powerful enough that I just don't want to just not bring it up.

[Rock Lee]

Overall I feel like you're much stronger vs combo with this list but somewhat weaker to creature removal since needle does not get bolted/plowed/jaced/lilianad/innocent blooded.
I also did not like Chain of vapor, I never wanted to cast it. I could see it being nice when they play their last card and plus Liliana as you triumphantly slam CoV on Liliana in response but beyond that I found the "best" use for it to cast on t1 DRS. Versus BUG it may just not be a great card, they either end up bouncing your Revoker or it basically is a healing salve+. I almost feel like 2 CoV and 1 Moment's peace is stronger in your version.
What do you like CoV vs, is it just another card vs Food chain for your meta?

CoV is there for top tricks. Pseudo crop rotationing by bouncing my tapped top then sac'ing the wasteland'd land and bouncing something of theirs. Hitting a Turn 1 DRS is perfectly fine. I do that regularly, thus enabling repeals on the drs and avoiding hymn/lilly's on turn 2. CoV with Lilly is really just to prevent her from ult'ing. I can regularly handle her + ability, its her -6 that kills me, especially if there is a goyf on the table, which you have the choice of making them discard. CoV isn't there for Food Chain at all. My meta is heavy U/R delver, Burn, and Food chain, all decks that are nightmare matchups for Turbo Eldrazi. Cov can be used in resp to Price of Progress to sacrifice lands ala zuran orb style and take lessened damage to Price.

[TheBoozeCube]

I generally agree with Rock Lee on Dig Through Time. At that point where you're casting it, you should probably be casting Primeval Titan and Kozilek instead. If you really want that extra hand manipulation you probably should be using Ponder instead. You shouldn't ever need 2 cards at once.

A small nitpick on the primer, you warned people in bold letters that the core is set in stone but I'm pretty sure Vesuva is no longer considered a 4-of and that people generally only run 2 eldrazi now.

What is the reasoning for cutting down on Vesuvas? Aside from cloning Cloudposts, this seems like a necessary 4-of to copy ETB triggers on Glimmerposts and Bojuka Bogs. I can't count how many times Vesuva has saved my life by doing this.

Why aren't people running Ulamog anymore? I rarely tutor for him. But when I do, it's for something crucial, like blowing up a planeswalker about to ultimate, taking out a combo piece, or clearing away something like Humility or Ensnaring Bridge.

[Mockingbird]

What is the reasoning for cutting down on Vesuvas? Aside from cloning Cloudposts, this seems like a necessary 4-of to copy ETB triggers on Glimmerposts and Bojuka Bogs. I can't count how many times Vesuva has saved my life by doing this.

Basics>Cloudpost post board... or more accurately, colored sources that come into play untapped and are Wasteland/Blood Moon proof are more important than pushing out the full 12-Post count. Mono-G doesn't have that some concern, but I will say I've learned just how few copy effects this deck actually needs because blue spells carry this deck a long way.

Why aren't people running Ulamog anymore? I rarely tutor for him. But when I do, it's for something crucial, like blowing up a planeswalker about to ultimate, taking out a combo piece, or clearing away something like Humility or Ensnaring Bridge.

I still run all three, but basically, deck space is tightening up in the UG version, so tight that people are choosing only two slots for Eldrazi and not three. In the Ulamog vs. Kozilek debate, neither one is actually a clear winner. People just go back and forth based on what they feel they need for the meta, and even personal preference plays a role. As for Rock Lee specifically, he has three Chain of Vapors and four Repeals, Ulamog becomes redundant there.


Also Rock, what happened to Ensnaring Bridge+Karn Liberated?

[TheBoozeCube]

Basics>Cloudpost post board... or more accurately, colored sources that come into play untapped and are Wasteland/Blood Moon proof are more important than pushing out the full 12-Post count. Mono-G doesn't have that some concern, but I will say I've learned just how few copy effects this deck actually needs because blue spells carry this deck a long way.

That makes a lot more sense now. Resistance to Wasteland/Blood Moon is one of the main reasons I've quickly gone back to monogreen every time I try a blue splash.

[PilotChick]

Every time I try to modify this deck I literally have nothing I want to take out of it... So I just copy the latest list.
Man I'd die without this thread. I'll get there one day.
Went 1 - 2 - 0 last night. Won 2 0 vs merfolk, lost 0 2 vs shardless bug (my best friend, knows me and the deck inside and out) and then 0 2 vs mud post. Literally the most grindy match of my life. I have all my post lands out, all of them, and I couldn't find an eldrazi. My eye of ugin got wasteland.

[sauce]

vs Solidarity (out of all decks?!) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gbl...ature=youtu.be

[Rock Lee]

Testing a theoretical variant of the CoV list:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [ON] Chain of Vapor
2 [US] Show and Tell

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [DS] Memnarch

The theory here is overload on board control and devote the sideboard to heavy stack control. A bit of a different tact from the previous concepts of combo versus control. But with current decks muddying the waters of those definitions, this provides a clearer picture of the intent of the maindeck/sideboard.

[maCHOOga]

So what does Memnarch come in against? It seems like it could be relevant against any sort of "midrange" strategy.

I'm assuming that you are at triple island to help support casting his abilities?

[PilotChick]

I was about to ask that myself.
I have trouble answering the question "when would he be better than Karn" , granted I have not playtested either
Also, sauce I love your videos! So much help keep em coming!

[Rock Lee]

So what does Memnarch come in against? It seems like it could be relevant against any sort of "midrange" strategy.

I'm assuming that you are at triple island to help support casting his abilities?

Triple island is more for 15 of your sideboard cards being blue.

I was about to ask that myself.
I have trouble answering the question "when would he be better than Karn" , granted I have not playtested either
Also, sauce I love your videos! So much help keep em coming!

Memnarch comes in against anything midrange, permanent based combo (especially those that use blood moon), or control.

Doesn't come in vs aggressive combo ie kills before turn 4 (infect/elves/storm/ichorid), aggro, or mana denial control (Dragon Stompy/DnT)

[sauce]

Just a quick additional point for Memnarch vs Karn is that you can tutor Memnarch w/ Eye of Ugin.

[Rock Lee]

Just a quick additional point for Memnarch vs Karn is that you can tutor Memnarch w/ Eye of Ugin.

Which I have done several times. But importantly, you can take control of losing board states easier with memnarch. Against bug or food chain I will wait until their precombat and steal a strix/shardless agent, chump their goyf with it, and block their 2/2's. It is a complete board stall into win con. As opposed to Karn, that simply eats the goyf and you hope for another answer when the 2/2's kill karn.

[PilotChick]

Sigh.
*orders a memnarch*

[HulkFindItThisWay]

Maybe I missed it in the thread but is there a reason this deck doesn't play Blightsteel?

[Darkenslight]

Maybe I missed it in the thread but is there a reason this deck doesn't play Blightsteel?

Doesn't have Protection from Farms.

[HulkFindItThisWay]

Doesn't have Protection from Farms.

Makes sense. I feel kinda dumb. I play Show and Tell and have been using Blightsteel for a little while with decent enough success. I was looking into trying this deck though. Seems like a ton of fun.

[Zotmaster]

There's nothing like playing the mirror match against someone whose Trops are Beta and whose other cards are foil to make you feel inadequate. I don't know if he posts here or not, but my hat is off to that guy.