Thank you Zot!Originally Posted by Zotmaster
I have been in several situations where my best chance of survival was to use the draw four of Kozilek to find an answer land (typically Glacial Chasm but also sometimes Glimmerpost), a means to find one of the answer lands (Crop Rotation, Map, one or both pieces of a Show and Tell/Titan combo) or a Moment's Peace. Even a timely Candelabra has given me an immediate reset of lands and let me hardcast a Titan. With the sheer volume of cards Kozilek gives you, and sometimes an active Top, finding a means to make it another turn are very possible, and often a better path to take than destroying a single permanent with Ulamog. I play with the answer lands in mind and Kozilek just lets me bridge to them easily. Because of these situations, I place a huge value on Glacial Chasm and almost never side it out.
Kozilek will often be my go-to Eldrazi when I just want one of the aliens but can't quite reach Emrakul; I usually save Ulamog for specific problems. If Kozilek gets answered but does not get me to the magic 20 mana the next turn (which is a longshot itself), then it's nice to be able to get Ulamog and reapply the pressure immediately. Having Kozilek gives me added usage for Eye of Ugin, which makes the land feel even more relevant.
It's a pleasure watching you play, and I think you are more careful and conservative than I usually am. Especially with your fetching basics and not rushing Show and Tell. I will often jam Show and Tell immediately third turn. But that is probably just an extension of my love for Reanimator and my instinct to "just go for it." :P
I do think Obstinate Baloth is worth it, as I think it is the best answer to Liliana. I would go as far as saying that Liliana is the most devastating card against our deck if left unchecked, even more so than Wasteland or Blood Moon. With the Baloth, you actually don't need a "magical Christmas land" scenario for him to be effective. In fact, his strength is psychological more than anything. I've had opponents Thoughtseize me turn one and see one in my hand. Obviously they did not choose the beast, but it affected their decision making for the rest of the game. It made them hold back their Hymns and made them unable to uptick their Lilianas. If they decide to just bite the bullet and use a discard effect to get it out of your hand, then they are wasting several of their resources (a Liliana edict ability, blocking with their creatures, turns to do all of this), which is a win for you. Plus it's conveniently out of Abrupt Decay range and can't be beaten in combat besides against Goyf and maybe Tombstalker. To keep a Goyf's size under control, you can try to use Bojuka Bog plus Vesuvas. I used to run four of them to maximize my chances of having one in hand; it was extremely useful to get one and threaten, if not surprise, the opponent.
Been testing Memnarch as Rock Lee has been and I just can't get myself to like it. I have boarded it in for the longer grindy matchups similar to Shardless BUG. I feel that triple blue is difficult to get to and at the point where I would tutor for memnarch cast it and hope to use the ability I might as well just used kozilek or in some cases just kill with emrakul. I think I would prefer Oracle of Mul Daya in that slot. Is there something I might be doing wrong? Am I misunderstanding the purpose of that card?
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
Oracle of mul daya is one of my pet cards, and I couldn't get her to work main board either. I tried really hard with her. Haven't tried memnarch yet; but just on a surface level he seems like he's more of a situational card. Though the situations he can fix that an eldrazi can't do seem pretty few and far between
Hey Rock Lee what do you think the best list is atm? I've been fiddling around with the board as well and not really sure what I want for the fair matchups. How much do you like revokers over needles?
Let me know if you wanna see my current list as well.
This is probably the stablest list for an unknown meta.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [M10] Pithing Needle
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
The Bebs could be your meta call card. It should have at least a remote amount of play against storm. Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm, Venarian Glimmer, Piracy Charm, Miscalculation, Spell Snare. Just my local meta has transformed into Big-Red.format since it destroys 12post and there are regularly 3-4 12post decks there.
Experimenting with Words of wind again.
I'm skeptical but curious. How do you intend to use Words of Wind?
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
Mostly as a wincon with Top. But I've used it to reset needles, save cloudposts, and reset chasms.
Do you not like the kozilek anymore, im still on 4 show and tells and I feel like its a lot easier to have a fatty with him as well, and hes castable very often.
Im also have not tried the chain of vapor yet either how do you like it, never even thought about it before.
Is Baloth better than thragtusk? I guess its better vs jund? Is that what its mainly for?
I like the blue blasts, ive been seeing too many blood moons recently so they help, ive been using hydro blasts though I like the art too much :P
Thanks for the help!
Got 1st place in my weekly legacy event again with this list:
// Lands
3 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [US] Show and Tell
3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [DS] Memnarch
Matchups were Merfolk, Death and Taxes, Burn. All 2-0'd.
Ocassionally I check MTGO results always looking for different techs on decks (including 12 Post). I just saw a list that played Devastation Tide over Engineered Explosives. What are your thoughts on this? Seems like it could really blow out a few archetypes, but mediocre against others.
Thank you for the write up and congrats on your win.
Might have to try the 4 show and tells and the extra Eldrazi, play in a field with lots of burn and a decent amount of combo.
Why Flusterstorm over Swan Song? Swan Song counters enchantments like Sneak Attack and Dream Halls as well as being a hard counter.
Is Tabernacle worth it? Seems like it is vulnerable to wasteland and it doesn't make mana.
Congrats.
Why Revoker over Needle?
Is the vulnerability to creature removal and costing 2 worth the ability to hit Lion's Eye Diamond? Don't think Revoker is winning any races as a 2/1 either. Needle costing 1 is important because you can set it on turn 1 before your opponent goes like set it on Wasteland against a delver deck before they can daze/spell pierce it.
How is Chain of Vapor? Is the bounce that important? Repeal at least draws you a card.
Memnarch sounds like it might be worth trying against equipment decks since some swords can be pretty annoying.
I have played Phyrexian Revoker mainboard in the past. While I generally prefer having Needles, it certainly isn't wrong to use Revoker.
While being 2 mana has its benefits and disadvantages, you seem to be stuck on the mindset that you should always play needle turn 1 naming wasteland on the blind. This has been discussed several times in the past. Turn 1 needles is a terrible play because not only do you not have any idea what the opponent is playing, but there are much more important cards that could be named rather than wasteland (Liliana, Sneak Attack, Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic for example) and you shouldn't be blown out by wastleand to the proportion most people think this deck gets blown out to. If you are getting blown out to this level repeatedly you may want to reinvestigate how you're playing this deck. I'm actually much more concerned about Sensei's Divining Top resolving and am generally pretty happy if they decide to counter a needle.
The idea behind it being a creature is that it can act as fodder for sacrificing and as a way to block. You'll rarely attack with it unless you're facing a combo deck which in that case Revoker can singlehandedly win games.
I haven't tested chain but I wouldn't be unhappy playing it. The main thing I would be happy about is the fact that it is so damn cheap and the drawback is barely a drawback to you.
Blade decks are very positive matchups, you shouldn't generally have to sideboard to win those.
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
Any advice for matches vs Omni-tell?
it's a bad matchup, you have to counter s&t and dream halls.
My 12 Post Videos - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...Q65OWRL5my7utn
I actually rarely counter dream halls in that matchup. Omni isn't designed to gain card advantage in any manner, so if you counter an Enter the infinite cast via dream halls with a swan song, you win that exchange and then some. Just remember not to side our your karakas incase they desperation show & tell Emrakul, something I've lost to before with a fist full of counters thinking I could handle anything.
after looking over a few omni tell list, can that deck even beat karakas, plus floating emrakul on top.
lab man is a way but i guess its not the preferred win con. without casting ETI i guess they get to hard cast emrakul
Our numbered friend (203995014) answers the question perfectly. Revoker is there as a healing salve vs decks where needle is only for wasteland, while Revoker can handily win you the game against "bad" matchups (elves/storm) game 1 where needle couldn't. I regularly kill sneakattack and storm with revoker beats (since your deck transforms into 9-mana-ugin-for-revoker.deck.) Against Elves you just need to buy a turn for show & tell/candelabra'd Titan, or to stop their deck from transforming into DRS-untap-deck and kill you through glacial chasm. The games where Revoker being a creature is a liability over needle (Pox, BUGwalker, blade-shells) you were going to name Lilliana anyway, so their only live removal (abrupt decay) still hit needle. Lastly with Revoker/Chain of Vapor combination, there are no combinations of decks at the moment where you would need to chain of vapor while Revoker is in play, but several where you can avert crisis that one turn when revoker was bounced with the CoV. The synergy seems nonexistent, but infact it is significant.
Chain is often there as unsummon. To enable repeal stalling on the play. But unlike unsummon or voidsnare, this has endgame benefits both reactionarily and to accelerate/save priority targets. From netting benefit out of wastelands without crop rotation, drawing cards from top, resetting candelabras, this has utility on many of your own permanents.
Yes because they can keep casting enter the infinite to put 1 card back. You need 46 life to beat them with a karakas.
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