How does Snapcaster mage interact with Dig Through Time? Can you exile Dig Through Time by delving it for itself?
Delve pays for the spell, so I guess it's possible... Cdr?Originally Posted by bruizar
It's not. The card goes to the stack on announcement, far before costs are paid.
Does Snapcaster Mage work with Delve at all?
As far as I know the flashback costs is the casting cost printed on the card. When you snap back a Force of Will you can't cast it for free removing a blue card and a life either.
But Force has an "instead of blah blah..." clause, it's the alternative way how to cast the spell. Delve pays for the spell. Thats why I'd love to read judge's/WotC words...
"9/20/2014 Because delve isn’t an alternative cost, it can be used in conjunction with alternative costs."
Do I get it right? Flashback says "payto play the card" and as such, you must pay those
So, bare with me on this flirt of speculation..
Let's say Treasure Cruise becomes dominant in the format. And let's say Dig through Time becomes a necessity to compete in the format too.
Any chance of Mana Drain getting unbanned? :D
Why would they do this?
If TC becomes a staple and DTT becomes necessary in blue control they'd more likely print ways to hose them than enhance them.
They've been trying to hose Goyf unsuccessfully for nearly a year now. Not sure what they're going to come up with next but they clearly don't like a creature required for play approaching $200 a copy.
Didn't we have had that topic covered a million times in the B&R thread? It's oppressive and expensive. I neither want to see the format degenerate into Delve + Mana Drain mirrors which is what would happen. Counter your Treasure Cruise with Mana Drain and use the Mana too feed my own TC to draw into the next Drain. Fun?
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
The thing to keep in mind with casting spells, abilities, etc -- basically anything that would go on the stack -- is that the very first thing that happens is that the thing actually goes onto the stack. Costs are paid after modes and targets and alternative costs have been determined (and if it's determined at that point that you never could cast the spell, the game treats this as an illegal action (rule 717) and the game rewinds to just before the illegal thing happened).
A spell can never be used to pay its own Delve cost because, even though most players act things out in "tap mana, play spell, response?" order, the game more or less works as "put thing on stack, set targets/modes, determine costs, pay those costs, spell is officially cast, response?"
More on Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time:
Luis Scott Vargas apparently does not think much of these cards.
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...skai-and-blue/
Glenn Jones over at Starcity wants to try the card, but his take is Modern and it is in Dredge. My guess is that this card is too slow for Dredge in Legacy. If you have the right cantrips, you can cast it turn 3 usually, or turn 4 if you had to react to an opponent and use mana for it. You should then be able to cast the second on about turn 6 or 7 depending on what you are reacting to. I like the card best in 2 color Burn, Show and Tell, or one of the Mystic decks. Anyway, here is his article.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Modern.html
Speaking of SCG, two days ago Kent Ketter referenced his BUG deck from 9/10 without a word about Treasure Cruise in this article.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...Occasions.html
These cards, Treasure Cruise in particular, are seriously under the radar. They are legal starting today. My advice: Get out and get some free wins this weekend before folks figure it out. I am tempted to put a deck list here, but I have not tested it properly. Good luck, mates.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
All it tells ME is that there is some arrogance spread among those "pro writers". If it is not a mythic, it's not worth the Hype on SCGs page to sell those for a premium
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Makes me sad that I'm too swamped with school work to go and attempt to spike a tournament during the first weekend TC is legal. Stupid real life!Oh well, I have at least been urging my friends going to Indy this weekend that if they are playing a Delver deck, you best be playing Treasure Cruise in your deck. Good luck to anyone else playing at Indy or Edison this weekend.
In regards to Legacy:
It should - the same way that Delve interacts with trinisphere. Delve is a way to pay the cost (effective in 601.2g), independent of alternative costs (601.2b).
None of these "pros" are active in the legacy scene or am I wrong?
I mean LSV doesn't really play much anymore anyway, I don't know when I last saw him play legacy.
The LSV articles appear to be written mainly from the standpoint of Standard.
Here are some questions that need to be answered about TC from the standpoint of Legacy:
1. How many cards are placed in your GY in the typical game by turn 5 or so?
This is a strong indicator of whether or not TC will be acceptable for you in multiples or not.
2. How many opening hands will want to do other things than place a card or two in the GY on each early turn?
If TC relies on you fetching lands twice in the first three turns and casting Brainstorm or Ponder when you otherwise might not do that then it is not only not a good card, it is a bad card. In those situations TC is leading you off the path to victory. The fact that fetchlands, Ponder and Brainstorm are often best played after the first wave of exchanges has occurred doesn't help in the determination.
3. How many assets in your list are weakened by the inclusion of several delve cards that are then played?
4. Would multiple TC's in your opening hand ever be acceptable?
You can't open a grip that has two or three cards that have no applicability to the early game state. How many mulligans will having 3 or 4 TC's in the list add to the 30-35% rate that is prevalent already?
This argues really strongly that when you do decide to add Treasure Cruise to a list you should remove mid to late game cards for it, which will often be finishers or sweepers. Is TC really that good?
I've done a bunch of testing with it already and I will not be playing a copy of it this weekend in the BUG list I prefer at the moment. If I see myself losing games to it that will change however I doubt that is going to happen. I plan to be holding Counterspell on turn 4 with two mana untapped when my opponent tries to cast his first one. I might not even counter it, as it will not be the thing that is going to kill me if it resolves.
Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are absolutely insane. Played with them and against them last night and they were always insane, can't even begin to image how good these cards would be if they cost any less.
I posted a comment beneath LSVs article about Jeskai / blue, asking if all the evaluations were done with standard in mind. I didn't get an answer.
I find this card rating to be pretty suspicious.
He names Judge's Familiar a "multi-format all-star" in the same sentence as Jace, Tarmogoyf, and Snapcaster Mage... at a full point above Thoughtseize.
That's supposed to be a joke. LSV knows how much people debate and argue over his ratings, sometimes he trolls the readers.
+ the Familiar did win 2 (or even more?) Pro Tours..
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote