4-0 last night with this list against merfolk, mud post, welder mud, and tezz affinity
havent acquired my own candelabra yet, but the magus has been a surprisingly descent stand in, after all it still is a candle, but very bad. put back in GSZ over third snt for it and dawnstrider out of the board
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [IA] Island
1 [IA] forest
3 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [AR] cavern of souls
1 [WWK] khalni garden
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the infinite gyre
1 [ZEN] oracle of mul daya
1 [5DN] trinket mage
1 [TS] magus of the candelabra
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [MBS] green sun's zenith
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [SoK] Pithing Needle
1 [5DN] Engineered explosives
1 [ODY] moment's peace
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [ODY] moment's peace
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [SA] relic of progenitus
SB: 1 [MM] dawnstrider
did dawnstrider get his chance to shine finally? :) i have not gotten a chance to play mine out of the sb yet.
My 12 Post Videos - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...Q65OWRL5my7utn
As a previous Omnitell player, one way to hose the deck over is to bounce or Krosan grip omniscience/ dream halls with enter the infinite on the stack. It causes them to draw their whole deck and discard down to 7 cards, discard emrakul to trigger the reshuffle. They will have to keep show and tell, omniscience, enter the infinte, force, pact, wish, other blue card or island.
If it's still giving you problems, you so can play sphere of resistance or thorn of amethyst and try to apply pressure. To deal with that effect, they have to cunning wish to get a bounce spell spell. It also slows down all their digging to get the combo.
In preparation of GP Jersey Shore, I'm testing this intriguing "variant" of the deck. Harkens back to older days of the deck where it was more of modern tron than anything. But I'm finding significant success with it locally, online, and in two-fisted testing.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [M15] Forest (1)
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [GP] Repeal
2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [JGC] Flusterstorm
A few notes. Memnarch is not off the table quite yet. The 15-anti combo sideboard is mostly what is being tested. Deciding if I can go to 14 with 1 memnarch as a cover-all, if I need vapor snags for infect, and how necessary the bebs are with a bolstered sideboard of spell hate are all on the chopping block.
Some positives:
- 3 Show & tell // 6 Show & Tellables (4 titan, 2 wurmcoil) is a mentally soothing value for me and I have found the most success with the 50% Show & Tells to Showables ratio. Revoker no longer main since his role got split between needle (waste/lilly/combo cards) and simulacrum/wurmcoil (life gain/stall/stabilize).
- Skimping on sideboard hate against terrible matchups is a bad habit of playing too much locally, where your sideboard gets fine tuned to people who know your deck, have specific strategum against you without having to scout you, and generally will punish you harder for a event with more than 10 rounds. Since the larger the event, the more rounds of random bad-meta call decks you will have to fight through before getting to tuned/meta appropriate decks.
- Wurmcoil is a positive beating, but does require a rethinking of several matchups and concepts. One is that properly calculating combat math was something this deck never had to do. Another is that I'm finding I needle/revoke jitte far more than normals to prevent combat tricks to prevent lifelink.
I like the direction of that list a lot. I think candle 2 will do more work than SnT 3 in that list though...
I think BEB and EE are very good right now too.
Went 2-2 a local tourney with
Artifact
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Blue (11)
4 Brainstorm
3 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
1 Trinket Mage
Colorless (2)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog
Green (9)
3 Crop Rotation
1 Moment's Peace
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
Lands (26) [24 real lands chasm and bog don't count]
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Khalni Garden
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
Sideboard
3 Blue Elemental Blast/Flusterstorm (burn/storm)
1 Engineered Explosives (any decks where I need removal for things that cost 0-2 sometimes 3 vs Bloodmoon.)
1 Flusterstorm (combo)
4 Force of Will (combo decks)
1 Moment's Peace (aggro)
1 Phyrexian Revoker (Planeswalkers, LED, Top)
1 Relic of Progenitus (Dredge, shrinking Goyf)
3 Swan Song (combo decks)
Beat Dredge and Shardless BUG and lost to Death and Taxes and BUG Delver.
Sure is nice to play a deck that beats dredge game 1.
Shardless BUG's didn't draw much discard and I was able to get there. Kalni garden was mvp making a plant to sacrifice to Liliana.
Against Death and Taxes I had two hands with blue land/fetch, post, top and business and didn't get a 3rd land for several turns losing both games.
I find Aven Mindcensor a huge pain against Death and taxes. Mindcensor nerfs fetches, prime time, map, and eye. You can't Explosives it cause it costs 3 and Repealing it isn't very effective because it has flash or can be vialed back in. Local Death and Taxes player runs 3 Mindcensors so its pretty annoying.
Should I be mulliganing hands with only 2 lands? I thought it wasn't terrible 2 lands and top to find more land with some business. Never got to 3 lands to show and tell a Titan/Eldrazi in either game though.
BUG delver I got hit with Hymms, Liliana and wasteland and Delver/Goyf got me. This is probably the worst match up. you don't want to run spells out into daze/spell peirce but then you get hit by Hymm to Torach or Liliana. Considering running Baloth but BUG delver is probably the worst match up I have played with 10 post so is it worth the sideboard space? I suppose Baloth is decent vs burn as well.
Thanks for the replies.
@203995014
Well sometimes you only have 1 cloud post or not much land and wasteland is a big concern so if I know I am on the play against a delver deck game 2 might play the turn 1 Needle if I don't have a Top.
Revoker being vulnerable to Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, Terminus which are blanks versus Needle is a bigger deal then it costing 2.
Top is pretty intergral to the deck as it improves your draws and is good all the time.
Out of the blade decks, I find that deathblade post board with meddling mages + stoneforge for sword of feast and famine combined with Liliana and Thoughtseize, plus they have wastelands and counters can be pretty annoying.
@Ponders
Omni Tell is a bad match up. Bring in all your Force of Will, Swan Song, Flusterstorm and hope you can stop their show and tell/dream halls.
@Rock Lee
Played a few games vs storm and have pretty much a 15 card sideboard vs it so usually win games 2-3. Revoker on LED is really really good but Revoker being vulnerable to Bolt, Swords, Terminus in other match ups is an issue. I have Revokered wasteland vs Jeskai delver only to get it bolted and my cloudpost wastelanded.
Good points on Chain of Vapor might have to try that out at some point.
I like your list with the Wurmcoils and Solemn other then no Engineered Explosives.
I find Explosives so good as a catch all removing multiple Delvers,Zombie/Goblin Tokens, Elves, Goyfs, Bloodmoon/Bridge/Magus of the Moon/Imperial Recruiter). I can't see cutting Engineered Explosives. I like having 2 in the 75 with the Trinket Mage and 1 main.
How is only running 2 needles, I been on 3 needles and find that is a good number?
@Caw_86
Congrats. Candelabra is nice to have and can speed up your big plays but I find I board it out fairly often. How is Dawnstrider? Dislike that you have to keep discarding cards to it.
Last edited by Kirika; 09-26-2014 at 03:40 PM.
First off. you can't name lands with Revoker, so no wasteland.
Regarding Chain of Vapor I opted to bring in creatures that generate huge advantage over as a plan, but I'm still doing heavy testing.
Of all the permanents you listed for EE, and there are sevearl more that are huge, chain of vapor deals with them sufficiently. I am seriously considering vapor snag in the sideboard, mostly because of the card inkmoth nexus not being CoV'able.
Against DnT with heavy mindcensor I go heavy on control, and play 100% reactively. You can't afford to get mindcensor blown out, so letting them waste you with crop rotate up is fine so long as they aren't flashing in the bird in response. The colorless creature plan helps against DnT also, making Mother moot, and buying you gads of time. CoV is a lifesaver against DnT. I have found that far better than countering Cataclysm/Armageddon is floating tons of mana, then bouncing all the things they keep and re-stabilizing.
Bug is always a tricky matchup, where you can either go protect-the-Show&Tell /w flusters plan, Or you plan on dumping your whole hand fast with siding out Show & Tells and operate off of the board/tops/topdecks. I find the 2nd approach works better by far, because not only is hymn amusingly random, but if you hedge your bets on keeping risky-to-be-hymned hands and they hit you hard, you are dangerously vulnerable to tilting or simply getting blown out. I am hoping that the new list with more colorless creatures will abate some of the worries regarding bug's rng factor. Sometimes bug is bonkers beyond words and sometimes it feels like it is the world's worst durdle deck.
Funny, I was play testing last night pretty heavy against dnt and was having a hard time with it. I'm running an earlier list without cov though, so there's that.
I completely agree against bug; someone's face gets smashed in every time. Either mine or theirs, it's never a close game.
Thank you for the reply
My bad on Revoker I think I had it on sword of feast and famine and then he wrecked me with it after killing the revoker.
Well the list you listed with the Wurmcoils wasn't running Chain of Vapor. Have to find some time to try out Chain of vapor build.
Haven't played the infect match that much but here having 3 Needles is really good to needle Inkmoth. There are only 2 infect players locally and I beat the last one I played.
I find Engineered Explosives to be game winning very often removing multiple problem permanents causing huge blow outs where a Chain of Vapor would have done not much.
In the BUG match up do you just jam your spells walking into Daze/Spell Pierce or do you play around those playing the Hymm lroulette? I find when I lose vs BUG, Hymm or Liliana is likely involved or multiple Delvers or Wasteland. I usually board out Maps and Candelabra in the BUG match up since they grow goyf and BUG tends to board in Null Rod/Needle and have Abrupt Decays.
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
Possible variant of the build I just posted is as follows. Not tested at all yet. Could be amazing, could be jank.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
3 [ZEN] Island (1)
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [MBS] Shimmer Myr
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [US] Show and Tell
3 [GP] Repeal
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 1 [MR] Wizard Replica
Shimmer myr allows a Sligh approach to wurmcoil-titan on turn 5 with zero cloudposts. An interesting approach to a significant 3-drop outside of Show & Tell.
I'm not entirely sure how giving artifacts Flash with Shimmer Myr is super helpful. Postboard, I see the appeal not only with Wizard Replica but also maintaining countermagic mana while being able to sneak in a Solemn Simulacrum or Wurmcoil Engine on the fly, which leads to complicating opponents. And I do see the improvement Phyrexian Revoker's/Pithing effectiveness by naming cards before they come off the stack. In the mainboard, Shimmer Myr seems more cute because it improves the sideboard and Revokers, which is good, but is it better than a fourth Repeal or second Candelabra of Tawnos?
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
I have been playing the deck with varying degrees of success on MTGO. I just thought I would share my list to generate new idea and share my thoughts.
Lands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Tabernacle
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
Creatures
1 Emrakul
1 Ulamog
4 Primeval Titan
1 Trinket Mage
1 Veteran Explorer
Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Candle
2 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
4 Crop Rotation
Sorcercies
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Show and Tell
Sideboard
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Swan Song
2 Elephant Grass
2 Moment's Peace
3 Chill
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
Things I like:
I have really enjoyed the small Green Sun's Zenith Package:
* turn one for Dryad Arbor for ramp... Dryad Arbor is also good against Liliana, a few times I have also utilized him to kill an un-expecting storm deck at 1 after a rubbish Ad nauseam
* Veteran explorer for Tarmogoyf decks. That card has single handedly stopped people from attacking for 2-3 turn while they were presumably trying to assemble an alpha strike. Because of the explorer I have decided to switch to tabernacle main so I can find a way to kill him myself.
* the Obvious benefit of Titan with only a single green and and additional titans
* GSZ makes it harder to figure out what to name with Meddling Mages as well.
I have also really enjoyed the trinket mage package. Specifically Engineered Explosives.
Things I actively dislike...
*No Cavern of Souls Main--Even though I have 3 ways to get Titan into play I would like hard casting him (or sometimes Trinket Mage) to be easier
*Only 1 Pithing Needle Main Lilliana has still been a beating
*Only 4 Great show and tell able creatures (thoughts on Hornet Queen or as rock lee suggests Wurm Coil)
*Elephant Grass has been awkward in the sideboard
*Moment's Peace has been as well
Any comments criticism and/or suggestions are always welcome
I took the "pretty much Stock" list to the SCG NJ open yesterday based off of IntoPlays tournament report. I figured with a virtually unknown metagame, I wanted to go with the most generic lists possible.
Typically, I'm playing in a delver, miracle and land infested metagame; NJ seemed to be the exact opposite! I played against 0 delvers and counterbalances all day personally!
Some general observations:
- 1st off, there was TONS of infect. At one point, it looked like one of every three matches was infect.
- It was a smaller turnout than normal, I think there was around 250ish people.
My brief tournament report:
Round 1, my opponent said "I just woke up 10 minutes ago" and was literally half asleep during game 1. Guess what he was playing...BURN. I resolved primetime, gained +8 life, it got double bolted and still died. Game 2 I had to Hydroblast the 2nd Edilion. I then died to a price of progress. That's proof that you don't even have to be awake to win with burn. Le sigh!
Round 2, Bulldoze Jund.
Round 3, ...at five life against Elves, punt game 2. Le sigh^2.
Round 4, Bulldoze Reanimator.
Round 5, Omnitell... Le Sigh ^3
Round 6, Bulldoze Pox.
Round 7, Mono-Red Sneakattack. I survive the bloodmoons, but this is a hard matchup. I need sneak attack and die to pyromancy. Le sigh^4.
Round 8, Infect. Die turn 2 game 1, get slow rolled in game 2. Le sigh^5
So there's a snapshot of the potential GP NJ metagame. Ughh. The other turbo eldrazi players at the event I believe had similar experiences! :-(
I also played in SCG NJ with the same list I posted earlier but I put in 2 Obstinate Baloth in the side in place of Revoker and Relic expecting BUG and Liliana decks.
R1 beat Dredge 2-1
R2 lose to burn 0-2
R3 lose to burn again 1-2
R4 beat elves 2-0
R5 beat miracles 2-0
R6 lose to infect 1-2
R7 lose to death and taxes (aven mindcensor is a huge beating) 0-2
R8 lose to burn yet again drop. 0-2
0- delver, 1 deathrite deck, If that was the expected meta I should have played Reanimator.
How are you beating burn?
Without an early Show and Tell and a counter for their Price of Progress or Sulfuric Vortex I'm finding it nearly impossible to win otherwise. Blue blasts help but you must counter Price of Progress. I was trying out Wurmcoil Engines online but they sort of need a Show and Tell as 6 is a bit to slow. Friend who plays 10 post switched to Infect cause he got tired of losing to burn.
Infect is a pretty bad match up too but Chain of Vapor or Vapor Snag sounds like they would be pretty good versus Infect.
Death and Taxes, I'm finding to be pretty tough with their key card is Aven Mindcensor. shuts you down and can be a huge blow out and Repealing it when it has flash doesn't do much. Revoker on Top doesn't help any either.
@MaCHOOga
Was cool to meet you at the event and compare notes. I think your Mono Red Sneak opponent is my friend who plays at the same shop I do. He runs Pyromancy sideboard.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)