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Thread: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

  1. #241
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Pretty sure it's a blue card. It's the brothers cantrip that make it playable. The brainstorm, ponder, gitaxian proburbation is what makes her playable (haste helps also as you can sandbag her for an alpha strike).
    Look at this point playable cards that don't have a blue symbol is all I'm asking for
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    I still have a strong suspicion that if 'Thalia, Heretic Cathar' had been named 'Frank, Heretic Cathar', people would be a lot more skeptical of it.
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  2. #242
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds View Post
    Look at this point playable cards that don't have a blue symbol is all I'm asking for
    colorblindness helps

  3. #243
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    lol @ Monestary Swiftspear secretly being Blue. That good archetypes absorb good cards despite their color is a Real Thing, but in the case of this guy, it isn't as linear as "spells make it big, good spells are blue, ergo it is blue". It isn't exactly a threat you try to protect, after all; it isn't like resolving Goyf and then sticking it, it's more like a Kiln Field or any given effect that gives your burn spells more damage/more reach.

    Whether or not Blue cards would fit into such a deck is not relevant; the card isn't masquerading as a Red card, it's most assuredly Red and supporting it with Blue is beyond the point. It pairs better with Red aggressive strategies, it doesn't exactly age well with the game-state (it doesn't improve after early turns), it demands a lot of fuel and it doesn't really save anyone's bacon to topdeck it.

    Like, if it were actually secretly Blue, then you could argue for its existence in a deck like BUG Delver or whatever. I doubt that effect is even desirable in such a deck, whether or not it were in those colors. Meanwhile, you can take a card like Snapcaster Mage (which is often accused of being a Red card one casts with Islands) and seeing just how easily any burn-heavy Sligh deck would freak out over a Red version of that guy.
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  4. #244
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Pretty sure it's a blue card. It's the brothers cantrip that make it playable. The brainstorm, ponder, gitaxian proburbation is what makes her playable (haste helps also as you can sandbag her for an alpha strike).
    That's false because differently from Goif, it'd be better if u could actually pitch it to force. Making Goyf pitchable on the other hand would make it worse because ppl would pitch him in situations where 99% of the time you shouldn't.

    Swiftspear is definitely red in that regard. Now we just need playable cantrips in non-blue colors. Blue get the manipulation + cantrip spells, why other colors can't get like: "R: instant: discard a card at random, if u do draw two cards" or "B, instant: remove target 2 cards from a grave, draw a card", "G: instant: target creature get +1+1, draw a card" etc... you don't need to move card-drawing in other colors, cantrip are perfectly ok in every color.

    I mean, White got Defiant Strike there's no reason why we can't get something similar (and playable plz) in other colors.

  5. #245
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    I mean, White got Defiant Strike there's no reason why we can't get something similar (and playable plz) in other colors.
    Julian recently made a good point on his stream about Gitaxian Probe in Elves - mere cantrips actually increase variance instead of reducing it since it makes opening hands more sketchy, among other things.

    Mere cantripping doesn't solve the issue that plue has superior card selection.

    I like Swiftspear. It's what a red aggro card should be, unlike the blue abomination Delver.

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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Then scry 1. What i'm saying is that you can decrease variance in other colors without using straight draw that blue has. Like, something like magma jet, or explore, but better (magma jet for R and sorcery for example, or explore for G but works only with basics). Just for example's sake, would it have hurt standard so much to print some good B and G delve cards? Like 3G, Sorcery, Delve: search your library for a basic land and put it into play. Or XB, Instant, Delve: exile X cards from a graveyard, draw a card? Instead we got an XXBBBB spell that make zombie tokens jesus and blue that ancestral recall lolz.

  7. #247

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    ...would it have hurt standard so much to print some good B and G delve cards? Like 3G, Sorcery, Delve: search your library for a basic land and put it into play. Or XB, Instant, Delve: exile X cards from a graveyard, draw a card? Instead we got an XXBBBB spell that make zombie tokens jesus and blue that ancestral recall lolz.
    You mean cards like Murderous Cut or Hooting Mandrills? Those are both quite good, it's just Treasure Cruise gross.

  8. #248

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Julian recently made a good point on his stream about Gitaxian Probe in Elves - mere cantrips actually increase variance instead of reducing it since it makes opening hands more sketchy, among other things.

    Mere cantripping doesn't solve the issue that plue has superior card selection.

    I like Swiftspear. It's what a red aggro card should be, unlike the blue abomination Delver.
    If Swiftspear was Delver power level it would land as a 1/2 with haste but no evasion and then flip to a 3/2 if you revealed an instant or sorcery on your upkeep.

    Think about that for a second and then think about how grossly out of curve the Delver is.

  9. #249
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    In my testing with Swiftspear, I often do not hit for more than 1 on the turn I plop it down. But then I can usually hit for 3 on turn 2 and another 3 or 4 on turn 3. It sure as hell shines in the same shell as TC. In fact, after gumshoing with Sneak/Show, Uwr, Uw, and Ur Delver/Burn, I think that Huang's deck is pretty close to what I would play. I like Fireblast in my main as the only major change.

    I will say this for TC. It makes subtle demands on your deck that we have not really contended with in the past. The added need for even more cantrips kinda takes you out of three colors. Black can sorta keep up with this, but your threat density still remains low. My next attempt will be to find something in U/b or possibly Ubw. I'm thinking Lingering Souls.
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  10. #250

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    In my testing with Swiftspear, I often do not hit for more than 1 on the turn I plop it down. But then I can usually hit for 3 on turn 2 and another 3 or 4 on turn 3. It sure as hell shines in the same shell as TC. In fact, after gumshoing with Sneak/Show, Uwr, Uw, and Ur Delver/Burn, I think that Huang's deck is pretty close to what I would play. I like Fireblast in my main as the only major change.

    I will say this for TC. It makes subtle demands on your deck that we have not really contended with in the past. The added need for even more cantrips kinda takes you out of three colors. Black can sorta keep up with this, but your threat density still remains low. My next attempt will be to find something in U/b or possibly Ubw. I'm thinking Lingering Souls.
    If this becomes the norm, look for an increase in the price of Pyrostatic Pillar and the Pyrostatic Pillar with legs we got in Theros. Sure, cantrip away boss.

  11. #251
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumC View Post
    If this becomes the norm, look for an increase in the price of Pyrostatic Pillar and the Pyrostatic Pillar with legs we got in Theros. Sure, cantrip away boss.
    That's pretty doubtful.

    What we should be looking for is a rise in decks that run Thalia, like Maverick and DNT.

  12. #252

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    In my testing with Swiftspear, I often do not hit for more than 1 on the turn I plop it down. But then I can usually hit for 3 on turn 2 and another 3 or 4 on turn 3. It sure as hell shines in the same shell as TC. In fact, after gumshoing with Sneak/Show, Uwr, Uw, and Ur Delver/Burn, I think that Huang's deck is pretty close to what I would play. I like Fireblast in my main as the only major change.

    I will say this for TC. It makes subtle demands on your deck that we have not really contended with in the past. The added need for even more cantrips kinda takes you out of three colors. Black can sorta keep up with this, but your threat density still remains low. My next attempt will be to find something in U/b or possibly Ubw. I'm thinking Lingering Souls.
    I think the upgrade I could see for that UR Delver list might be to dip into Grixis and replace reactive counter spell disruption (Spell Pierce and Daze) that does not synergize very well with YP or Swiftspear by active disruption like Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy.

    I would also run a Misdirection in addition to Force of Will.

  13. #253

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    In my testing with Swiftspear, I often do not hit for more than 1 on the turn I plop it down. But then I can usually hit for 3 on turn 2 and another 3 or 4 on turn 3. It sure as hell shines in the same shell as TC. In fact, after gumshoing with Sneak/Show, Uwr, Uw, and Ur Delver/Burn, I think that Huang's deck is pretty close to what I would play. I like Fireblast in my main as the only major change.

    I will say this for TC. It makes subtle demands on your deck that we have not really contended with in the past. The added need for even more cantrips kinda takes you out of three colors. Black can sorta keep up with this, but your threat density still remains low. My next attempt will be to find something in U/b or possibly Ubw. I'm thinking Lingering Souls.
    Maybe TC will bring Dark Ritual back from the dead in non-combo lists?

    T1 - Fetch - Thoughtseize
    T2 - Fetch - Dark Ritual - something
    T3 - Land - Treasure Cruise?

    It kind of takes the sting out of having fast mana or the product of fast mana countered early on. If you're playing discard you even get some protection against that counter or removal taking your fast thingy away before you get to play with it some. Probably unlikely to occur but I miss Dark Ritual a lot.

  14. #254

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    That's pretty doubtful.

    What we should be looking for is a rise in decks that run Thalia, like Maverick and DNT.
    Both of whom will be running 3x+ Spirit of the Labyrinth now. Chains of Mephistopheles is going to be the most expensive sideboard card in history I think.

  15. #255
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumC View Post
    If this becomes the norm, look for an increase in the price of Pyrostatic Pillar and the Pyrostatic Pillar with legs we got in Theros. Sure, cantrip away boss.
    Thalia and Dryad Militant may also want a word with ya. Remove cards from your what-yard? Remove what from your graveyard?
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  16. #256

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Thalia and Dryad Militant may also want a word with ya. Remove cards from your what-yard? Remove what from your graveyard?
    For the love of God someone craft Soldier Tribal into something at least semi-playable.

  17. #257
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by LOLWut View Post
    For the love of God someone craft Soldier Tribal into something at least semi-playable.
    One of White's bigger oddities is its inability to unite under a single tribe; White and Black both have this problem in spite of having various types to borrow against (you'd think Zombies would be a thing, with Undead Warchief having the price point it does). The fact that its most potent creatures tend not to share critical creature types doesn't have to be a burden but it makes it difficult to coalesce. Thalia is a Human Soldier; Dryad Militant is a Dryad Soldier; Stoneforge Mystic is a Kor Artificer; Mother of Runes is a Human Cleric; and so on. Humans *almost* gets there, but it isn't like you just throw away SFM, right? Yet Kor ain't where it's at either (to say nothing of Artificers, though they are.... 'interesting').

    Anyway I don't think Soldiers needs to be a good tribe, just that White Weenie can't shake that whole "aww shucks, I'm just a metagame deck" thing because its niche is always playing guys that make the opponent's life a pain in the dick, and then assemble a large man to end the game (whether it's Geddon + Empyrial Armor, controlling Exalted Angel, having a good beater + lots of Exalted guys, or SFM + a good equip + any dude to punch face).
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  18. #258

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Thalia and Dryad Militant may also want a word with ya. Remove cards from your what-yard? Remove what from your graveyard?
    I want to like Dryad Militant, I just wish it's "gotcha" hate was one-sided. Kinda like (power levels greatly vary) Blind Obedience, Chancellor of the Annex, Consecrated Sphinx, Cosi's Trickster, Counterbalance, etc. are all one sided.

    Why Dryad and Lingering Souls not friends?

  19. #259

    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    Both of whom will be running 3x+ Spirit of the Labyrinth now. Chains of Mephistopheles is going to be the most expensive sideboard card in history I think.
    I don't think it'll be passing Tabernacle anytime soon.

  20. #260
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    Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards

    Spirit of the Labyrinth is pointless. The topic remains the same we all had in the Spoiler thread: your opponent cantrips 1-2 times before SotL can come down and therfore can find solutions (even in Response with brainstorm), removes the hatebear and eats the removal cast to draw 3 fresh cards.
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