[Deck] 12 Post

[caw_86]

I've noticed in this thread that many people have taken this deck into different colours with it's green and not always been a green blue deck. Does this mean the deck is extremely customisable? It seems to me there is only about 26-30 cards that are a must in the list. Am I wrong? Because I am not liking the blue for brainstorm, prefer actual digging through my deck, putting the useless stuff on the bottom. I am thinking of turning my current mono green list into a Gruul list for the punishing fire package as well as pyroclasm. Pretty much wanting to run the Modern G/R tron approach of digging + Punishing Groves combo. Or is there something I am not getting about blue in this deck other than brainstorm?

pretty much the entire sideboard of counterspells

[sauce]

I've noticed in this thread that many people have taken this deck into different colours with it's green and not always been a green blue deck. Does this mean the deck is extremely customisable? It seems to me there is only about 26-30 cards that are a must in the list. Am I wrong? Because I am not liking the blue for brainstorm, prefer actual digging through my deck, putting the useless stuff on the bottom. I am thinking of turning my current mono green list into a Gruul list for the punishing fire package as well as pyroclasm. Pretty much wanting to run the Modern G/R tron approach of digging + Punishing Groves combo. Or is there something I am not getting about blue in this deck other than brainstorm?

Not playing Brainstorm is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in legacy in general.

[maCHOOga]

I've noticed in this thread that many people have taken this deck into different colours with it's green and not always been a green blue deck. Does this mean the deck is extremely customisable? It seems to me there is only about 26-30 cards that are a must in the list. Am I wrong? Because I am not liking the blue for brainstorm, prefer actual digging through my deck, putting the useless stuff on the bottom. I am thinking of turning my current mono green list into a Gruul list for the punishing fire package as well as pyroclasm. Pretty much wanting to run the Modern G/R tron approach of digging + Punishing Groves combo. Or is there something I am not getting about blue in this deck other than brainstorm?

You'll find out playing any "other-color" 12 post list that you'll be bulldozed by the UG 12post version. They have repeal & brainstorm (and treasure cruise) while you don't. That being said, I also think there are matchups where the mono-Green excels. Mono-green also is significantly easier to play. Mono-Green is a ramp deck whereas UG is more of a control deck.

[winglerw28]

Time for something a little more experimental! I have for a while considered Primeval Titan and Crop Rotation sacred cows that I felt might not truly be necessary to the success of the 12-post strategy. Lately I have been thinking about how to deal with Wasteland-heavy decks, and the answer tends to be Sensei's Divining Top.

This led to some interesting ideas. With the new lists and Treasure Cruise, I find the reliance on green to be less important and I wanted to explore other colors. I wanted answers to early threats and I wanted a way to make the combo matchups much better. This led to the following list after preliminary testing, which has been promising:

// Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Sun Titan

// Noncreature Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Force of Will
3 Repeal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Show and Tell
4 Terminus
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Trickbind

// Lands
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Glimmerpost
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Vesuva

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Since this list is obviously a bit out there from the traditional 12 Post lists, I'm going to go over card choices:

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Iona, Shield of Emeria - These are the major non-Eldrazi Show and Tell options that end the game against the decks they are relevant against. Elesh Norn is strong since you can cast it normally, and it's very strong against Delver of Secrets-based strategies.

Sun Titan - This guy lets us catch up after falling behind. Recovering Candels and wasted lands, he lets us shore up the midrange and aggro strategies once the deck has stabilized. It is also worth considering Glacial Chasm since that creates a soft lock against the UR Delver and Burn decks, but without Expedition Map or Crop Rotation this doesn't make much sense. I also feel this interaction isn't strong enough due to instant speed burn, but I haven't tested it yet.

Entreat the Angels - I wanted to increase the threat density of the deck, and this does so wonderfully. Doubly so since it is actually castable in this deck without the Miracle cost. It is fantastic against creature-based decks and provides surprise blockers, a win condition, and a must-counter spell to overload their countermagic.

Mainboard Force of Wills - With a tweak in strategy, I wanted to make the combo matchups better. This helps against Sneak Attack decks, Painter's Servant decks, and the fast combo decks like Dredge and Storm.

Terminus - Terminus provides an efficient way to answer early threats en masse and becomes normally castable as time goes on. Since the opponent will most likely be focusing on wasting our colorless sources this provides a solid answer to the hyper-aggressive versions of Delver and turns mediocre to even BUG matchups into much more reasonable prospects.

Trickbind - Thanks to my other local 12-post player for this! This card is much more real than I had anticipated. A solid answer to wasteland, blue to pitch to force of will, a real mainboard way to counter storm spells, a great surprise against miracle triggers, a way to stop random Sneak Attacks when the opponent doesn't expect it, and a solid counter to Griselbrand from reanimator. This card did some real lifting, and generally has a game one target even if it isn't at its peak.

Celestial Colonnade - In the same vein as Sun Titan, this provides excellent anti-waste support. By being a threat and increasing the threat density of the deck, it allows us to force the opponent to decide to wasteland this or our posts. It blocks delvers, can attack for the win, and takes up the slot Glacial Chasm used to occupy since Terminus and Glimmerpost now give us enough combined protection.

SB: Rest in Peace - A solid Bojuka Bog replacement that is more powerful against other Treasure Cruise decks, BUG Delver, and Dredge. I generally have been siding out Treasure Cruises for them, but I'm not sure if that is right.

SB: Iona, Shield of Emeria - Show and Tell this in and you will probably win against any deck reliant on a single color. I don't think this needs a ton of explanation, and can be very strong. This may not be wanted as the original plan was a Gifts Ungiven sideboard strategy with Unburial Rites, but that proved to be a bit weak and anti-synergistic with cruise.

SB: Vendilion Clique - Great against combo and a generally solid card.

SB: Venser, Shaper Savant - It might be that Wipe Away is stronger than this and the second Clique, but I really love Venser + Karakas. He is good against Past in Flames and Infernal Tutor

Everything considered, I've really liked what this list has done in my preliminary testing. I've tested against BUG Delver, UR/RUG Delver, Miracles, Ad Nauseam, and Sneak & Show.

[caw_86]

Time for something a little more experimental! I have for a while considered Primeval Titan and Crop Rotation sacred cows that I felt might not truly be necessary to the success of the 12-post strategy. Lately I have been thinking about how to deal with Wasteland-heavy decks, and the answer tends to be Sensei's Divining Top.

This led to some interesting ideas. With the new lists and Treasure Cruise, I find the reliance on green to be less important and I wanted to explore other colors. I wanted answers to early threats and I wanted a way to make the combo matchups much better. This led to the following list after preliminary testing, which has been promising:

// Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Sun Titan

// Noncreature Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Force of Will
3 Repeal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Show and Tell
4 Terminus
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Trickbind

// Lands
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Glimmerpost
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Vesuva

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Since this list is obviously a bit out there from the traditional 12 Post lists, I'm going to go over card choices:

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Iona, Shield of Emeria - These are the major non-Eldrazi Show and Tell options that end the game against the decks they are relevant against. Elesh Norn is strong since you can cast it normally, and it's very strong against Delver of Secrets-based strategies.

Sun Titan - This guy lets us catch up after falling behind. Recovering Candels and wasted lands, he lets us shore up the midrange and aggro strategies once the deck has stabilized. It is also worth considering Glacial Chasm since that creates a soft lock against the UR Delver and Burn decks, but without Expedition Map or Crop Rotation this doesn't make much sense. I also feel this interaction isn't strong enough due to instant speed burn, but I haven't tested it yet.

Entreat the Angels - I wanted to increase the threat density of the deck, and this does so wonderfully. Doubly so since it is actually castable in this deck without the Miracle cost. It is fantastic against creature-based decks and provides surprise blockers, a win condition, and a must-counter spell to overload their countermagic.

Mainboard Force of Wills - With a tweak in strategy, I wanted to make the combo matchups better. This helps against Sneak Attack decks, Painter's Servant decks, and the fast combo decks like Dredge and Storm.

Terminus - Terminus provides an efficient way to answer early threats en masse and becomes normally castable as time goes on. Since the opponent will most likely be focusing on wasting our colorless sources this provides a solid answer to the hyper-aggressive versions of Delver and turns mediocre to even BUG matchups into much more reasonable prospects.

Trickbind - Thanks to my other local 12-post player for this! This card is much more real than I had anticipated. A solid answer to wasteland, blue to pitch to force of will, a real mainboard way to counter storm spells, a great surprise against miracle triggers, a way to stop random Sneak Attacks when the opponent doesn't expect it, and a solid counter to Griselbrand from reanimator. This card did some real lifting, and generally has a game one target even if it isn't at its peak.

Celestial Colonnade - In the same vein as Sun Titan, this provides excellent anti-waste support. By being a threat and increasing the threat density of the deck, it allows us to force the opponent to decide to wasteland this or our posts. It blocks delvers, can attack for the win, and takes up the slot Glacial Chasm used to occupy since Terminus and Glimmerpost now give us enough combined protection.

SB: Rest in Peace - A solid Bojuka Bog replacement that is more powerful against other Treasure Cruise decks, BUG Delver, and Dredge. I generally have been siding out Treasure Cruises for them, but I'm not sure if that is right.

SB: Iona, Shield of Emeria - Show and Tell this in and you will probably win against any deck reliant on a single color. I don't think this needs a ton of explanation, and can be very strong. This may not be wanted as the original plan was a Gifts Ungiven sideboard strategy with Unburial Rites, but that proved to be a bit weak and anti-synergistic with cruise.

SB: Vendilion Clique - Great against combo and a generally solid card.

SB: Venser, Shaper Savant - It might be that Wipe Away is stronger than this and the second Clique, but I really love Venser + Karakas. He is good against Past in Flames and Infernal Tutor

Everything considered, I've really liked what this list has done in my preliminary testing. I've tested against BUG Delver, UR/RUG Delver, Miracles, Ad Nauseam, and Sneak & Show.

If your going to play white, stp should be in the deck over trickbind i think. Also collonade is a little unnecessary

[winglerw28]

If your going to play white, stp should be in the deck over trickbind i think. Also collonade is a little unnecessary

I have felt that StP didn't do a ton, as repeal handled most things well enough and pitches to Force and Terminus was enough a very large majority of the time. Trickbind has been very good for me. I think, if anything, StP could exist in the board over the Iona and addition Show and Tell that are relics from testing Gifts Ungiven. I'm not sure yet, however.

Colonnade simply provides a way to overload wasteland, increase the threat density of the deck, and helps cast Entreat when we don't miracle it. I have liked it a lot and think 1-2 could be right. With Sun Titan it provides a consistent threat that is hard to answer in non-white decks.

[Fatal]

About other approach I posted few months ago B/G version which is more focused on board control.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Nic-Feat-8Post

[slayjay]

Went 3-1 yesterday and placed 7th of 26 with this nice monstrosity:


// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [U] Tropical Island
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [M14] Island (3)
2 [KTK] Forest (1)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest


// Creatures
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya


// Spells
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top


// Sideboard
SB: 4 [U] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [DS] Sundering Titan
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 3 [MR] Oblivion Stone
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [IA] Hydroblast


Blue blast over Hydroblast was just because I own cool asian ones :D
In my meta there is a lot of lands (that´s why i played Sundering Titans), Death and Taxes, Goblins (Oblivion Stone, Tabernacle) Burn (Leyline, Blasts). Because of that there was not enough space to fight combo, so I trusted in the 4 Leylines and prepared to loose against Storm.


Round 1 lost to Death and Taxes 1-2. First game he had tripple wasteland and Thalia...never get enough mana for Show and Tell and Emrakul in my hand. Second game devastated his boards with Stones. Third game he had double wasteland, Aven Mindcensor, Phyrexian Revoker on Expedtion Map and Thalia. A true nightmare...

Second round against Goblins. First game he was really fast, second game he had Earwig Squad turn 3 and took all my Eldrazis and a Titan. I could stabilize with O-Stone, and killed really slow after I found a Primeval Titan. 2-1

Third round against BUG delver. 2-0. treasure Cruise was AMAZING. So good to shrink their Goyfs. Would not go out without them now. Sundering Titan was great as well.

Fourth round against Miracles. The Bye? Never played it before...Game 1 was easy. Game 2 he played Turn 2 Meddling Mage on Primeval Titan (had 3 in my hand at this moment...) and Nemesis Turn 3, Surgical Extraction on Repeal and Crop Rotation...lost this one. Game three went like it should. 2-1

Overall 3-1, 7:4

MVPs were Oracle of Mul Daya and Treasure Cruise and the O-Stones and Sundering Titans from the board.

[winglerw28]

<snip>
MB: 2 Sensei's Divining Top
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity

I feel like you'd rather have Flusterstorm over Leyline since it is easier to cast if you don't have Leyline in your opener, but I've never played with Leyline in post. It also helps with the combo MU issue.

How often did you feel like 2 Sensei's Divining Top was correct? Did you ever want more/less?

[Mockingbird]

Time for something a little more experimental! I have for a while considered Primeval Titan and Crop Rotation sacred cows that I felt might not truly be necessary to the success of the 12-post strategy. Lately I have been thinking about how to deal with Wasteland-heavy decks, and the answer tends to be Sensei's Divining Top.

This led to some interesting ideas. With the new lists and Treasure Cruise, I find the reliance on green to be less important and I wanted to explore other colors. I wanted answers to early threats and I wanted a way to make the combo matchups much better. This led to the following list after preliminary testing, which has been promising:

// Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Sun Titan

// Noncreature Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Force of Will
3 Repeal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Show and Tell
4 Terminus
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Trickbind

// Lands
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Glimmerpost
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Vesuva

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant

I like the basic idea of going UW control with 12-Post splash (a la Modern UW Tron), but from the other side of the spectrum, why replace Green with white when green provides speed. And while Control doesn't play speed, why turn down the speed of green? (especially without Swords to Plowshares)

[slayjay]

I feel like you'd rather have Flusterstorm over Leyline since it is easier to cast if you don't have Leyline in your opener, but I've never played with Leyline in post. It also helps with the combo MU issue.

How often did you feel like 2 Sensei's Divining Top was correct? Did you ever want more/less?

I had flusterstorm in SB before. Combo brings Xantid Swarms, so Flusterstorm seemed not be enough for me. And you can Show and Tell Leyline into play ;-)
Leyline also better against burn, Duress, Hymn etc...

2 Top seemed very correct to me. Had 3 in my deck for months, cutted the third for more Treasure Cruise. Never missed a Top. So much drawing power! And Top and Brainstorm is a little MEH MEH...

An interesting fact: Played 11 games in that tournament, never drawed a Candelabra...

[Postman]

I think Eldrazis should be played in a ramp deck, and green is the one and only REAL color to provide ramp. Titan is just insane with it's ability, and crop is some kind of overpowered multi - tool for me (fighting Wasteland, getting chasmn, mana-fixing, etc all at instant speed!). I wouldn't cut those two, and right now I added two Oracles which have a huge impact :-D One might consider a tiny white - splash at some point, but only for SB tactis I guess....

[Ponders]

If your going to play white, stp should be in the deck over trickbind i think. Also collonade is a little unnecessary

If you're going to play white, consider sacred ground. I dont see what colonade is supposed to help you with here.

[Ponders]

If you're going to play white, consider sacred ground. I dont see what colonade is supposed to help you with here.

Also, what matchups is SNT really helpful against? I've seen some lists running 3 or even 2, in which case whats the point?

[iamajellydonut]

If you're going to play white, consider sacred ground.

Does this defend against anything other than Wasteland? If so, isn't Sacred Ground just a Pithing Needle with far less application?

[Darkenslight]

Does this defend against anything other than Wasteland? If so, isn't Sacred Ground just a Pithing Needle with far less application?

It also defends against LiliVeil's ultimate

[iamajellydonut]

It also defends against LiliVeil's ultimate

So... a Pithing Needle with less application?

[sauce]

Also, what matchups is SNT really helpful against? I've seen some lists running 3 or even 2, in which case whats the point?

Its great vs Burn and Delver decks.

[Ponders]

Its great vs Burn and Delver decks.

That's agreeable. I run 4 leyline in the sideboard though.

[Ponders]

So... a Pithing Needle with less application?

I noticed it in the sideboard of the original Murata list.