Arianrhod, I have been testing your list and loving it, but one of my biggest pain-points has been daze. I analyzed the curve (counting GSZ as 1, even though we will always be casting it for more):
1: 14
2: 5
3: 13
4: 2
5: 4
6: 1
As you can see, it tends to be a bit heavy on 3 drops.
I am loving the Abzan Charms for their versatility, and Council's Judgment is nice as well, but it seems like perhaps there could be a tightening of the curve. What do you guys think?
Also, I know this is lame, but since I only have 2 Bayou, do you think an additional Savannah and Scrubland could be added to similar effect without doing too much harm to the manabase?
Edit: it is also very possible that I am not playing around Daze correctly/playing around Daze too much. I am sequencing my plays so that the most important cards are cast around Daze while running less important cards into it.
I frequently just blast through Daze, honestly. They don't have it more often than they do, and even if they do, they're trading a turn for your spell depending on board state. Nic Fit is very good at forcing control mirrors -- if the Delver deck is trying to play any amount of control game (which they are, by virtue of casting Daze instead of Bolting you), resetting a land is actually a big deal, because it puts us up a further land on them.Originally Posted by ironclad8690
The large number of 3-drops is an aspect of Nic Fit theory that I don't think has been talked about very often, actually. A long time ago, the original Rector lists that I was developing didn't really have 3-drops, or 2-drops. It had a lot of 1s, 4s, 5s, and 6s. As such, my Phyrexian Tower hands were batshit insane. However, this came at the cost of normal Therapy/Explorer hands. Oftentimes I'd "go off" with Therapy+Explorer and pass the turn with 3 untapped lands and nothing to do until next turn. This gave my opponents the first crack at their accelerated manabase, which put me at a significant tempo disadvantage.
While there still aren't a large number of playable 2-drops for Nic Fit, I've definitely been actively trying to shave the curve down a bit to increase the number of 3-drops, in order to actually take advantage of Therapy/Explorer hands. It's possible that shaving a Judgment for a 3rd Decay main could be correct. I'm going to run with the 2-2-2 removal suite at Eternal Weekend and then I'll reevaluate for GP NJ. Judgment is just such a massive beating on so many decks -- not even necessarily because of the unconditional exile removal (which is good, don't get me wrong), as much as the tempo gain that it causes. IE: if you resolve CJ vs a Batterskull, they HAVE to bounce the Batterksull or you get to eat it. This causes a 1-for-1 that is a tempo 2-for-1, at least...and tempoing something like a Batterskull is a pretty enormous swing, especially if the CJ then eats the Stoneforge that pooped it out.
Abzan Charm's utility is just too overwhelming to consider cutting. I would seriously cut a Judgment before a Charm. That's how much that card has impressed me.
Thanks for the input. I am just going to keep testing and run the list in my weekly local for all the practice I can get.
Totally unrelated anecdotal testing from another format but Abzan Charm has also been awesome in modern angel pod. The most surprising mode for me has been the +1/+1 counters, people just do not expect pump spells in these sorts of formats outside of infect decks which has lead to some huge blowouts.
Whenever I start playing with junk nic-fit decks again I'm going to be testing the crap out of that card. I've been on a punishing maverick/jund kick lately just because they feel like easy mode against the UR deck which a few people have picked up at my store. Your list seems like a ton of fun against them as well.
I know its been mentioned before, but i think voice of resurgence is a criminally under played card. If you are looking to lower the curve and do something about daze, then voice is the perfect card.
Voice is sadly not good enough. I've tried him in Nic Fit previously and been nothing but disappointed by the card. A teammate tried him at my behest in Maverick and was equally disappointed. It actually does nothing.
I'm going to dissect really quick why it does nothing since I fear many people will continue to try it, assuming it can just work wonderfully, without evaluating it correctly.
1) It answers removal and interacts well with Deed: When all is said and done, Nic Fit (specifically the Abzan builds) are control decks that rely on a single creature to turn the game around. With that in mind, how big is your Voice token going to be? 1/1 after deed. Maybe a 2 - 4 at best otherwise. It only really gets big in a situation where we are playing mana derps and that is not a favorable board state.
2) It answers decks that want to use our turn to play the game (i.e. counterspells): This boils down to Miracles, Delver and Stoneblade. Shardless only plays Forces and Abrupt Decay and they have a number of answers (Deluge, Goyf, Jace) to it. Miracles has a number of sweepers and generally doesn't care about the 2/2 anyways. Delver can attack right past the Voice. Stoneblade is the only place where it almost matters but with the addition of TNN, Voice doesn't do much.
To make matters worse, how many Voices are we playing. If we are playing 1, then it does even less. If we play 4, then we have to make cuts. The card doesn't help with our control plan and it doesn't punish the decks it was intended to.
Not sure if any of you will be at Eternal Weekend or not, but if you are, feel free to swing by and say hey. I'll be wearing a pretty recognizable dark red Touhou hoodie with a yin/yang on the back. Table numbers also work.
I'm not sure how much liveposting I'll do. I'll try to keep everyone apprised as best I can...might need to combine a couple of rounds here and there, though.
Look forward to your updates and good luck! :) I'll watch the Live Stream...hope you'll be on camera!
Go #teamsiegerhino!
Hey guys and gals!
So I've made a journey from the Junk rock thread to here because:
Treasure cruise delver has made my superior card in hand game non functional, discard and liliana has become worse and bob is now just a slow vulnerable version of treasure cruise :/
Pyromancer has made liliana worse as well and I was finding my self being severely mana constrained a lot especially if my SFM gets killed with equip in hand.
I wanted more mana so I could start effectively casting this stuff
I wanted to focus not on grinding the game to a top deck battle, which I used to win
To a focus on superior board advantage, who cares how many cards they have when they are so behind >:)
So veteran explorer was my answer, but I didn't want to play a deck that depended on it, only utilitised it. I also didn't want to play deed, because I also wanted a lowish curve and wanted to play library instead of top, since I want the card advantage desperately, and I wanted to be able to happily name needle on top against miracles.
So I'm playing toxic deluge instead, and creatures that survive it especially on 1.
I'm also playing lots of life gain as a result (and not thoughtsieze, which incidentally makes library better)
I was pleasantly surprised to see a number of people on here who have independently come to similar conclusions, making me even more confident in the idea:
Abzan Explorer
4 Verd Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
2 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savanah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volraths Stronghold
22
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Greensun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Veteran Explorer
1 Scooze
1 Teeg
1 Glissa
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
3 SFM
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Cabal therapy
2 IoK
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 engineered Explosives
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Toxic Deluge
2 Sylvan Library
61
2 Duress
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Teeg
1 Siege Rhino
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Sword of L&S
1 Humility
Glissa. Glissa replaces eternal witness for me. She's a must answer for any ground based assault (goyf mongoose,
Swiftspear etc), and even more so if protected by equipment or Safekeeper
She can also impersonate Witness by getting back equipment, spellbomb and lock creature decks out with engineered explosives. The Spellbomb main might be to cute, and should probably be the second rhino
I should probably be playing 4 therapies, but I simply haven't had enough practice with the card yet to be honest and am easing my way there :)
Deck is great against creature swarm decks obviously,
It's sweet against delver if you can get the mana going because of all the life gain and efficiency in the cards, they can cantrip and cruise all they like.
Miracles matchup is pretty simple. Equipment makes all creatures threats, thragtusk is a pain, library is a pain, a teeg with sword or Safekeeper is their worst nightmare and we have needle and revoker and decay etc etc etc
Combo is surprisingly not bad at all, all the discard plus 6 teegs and more hatebears, protected again by discard swords and safekeeper, plus all the graveyard hate, needle and revoker etc
Worst matchup is lands haha and someone at my local plays that, hence the Tsabo's web in my spare side slot :P
True name anytning is a joke, thanks to deluge, rhino and decay for the equipments, as well as explosives on 3.
Don't forget explosives can take out Jace too with a Deathrite shaman
I also thoroughly beat someone on Caleb's bug cruise explorer list, thanks to threat density and needle
Deck is really fun, and powerful. deluge is a house, it's so much cheaper than deed, and we can still make it a plague win if we build our deck right :)
BUG nic-fit just did it's thing on the first game of the eternal weekend coverage. Instascoop to consecrated sphinx after a long back and forth game against deathblade.
EDIT: Notion thief wins the second game in response to a brainstorm.
Instascoop to sphinx lol
Sam Castrucci on stream playing Scape at 4-0
Those topdecks from the delver player :( also listening to Bob Maher aggressively not knowing how Valakut works was endlessly frustrating.
Are these posted anywhere?
Yeah, they've just declared a burn deck with eidolon, goblin guide, and swiftspear to be boss sligh...
http://www.twitch.tv/cardtitan/b/581676335?t=51m0s
I'm sure the rest of it will get in there at some point.
Went 3-1 in the trial with azban wish fit. Beat omni tell, bug, American delver. Lost to some odd blue green vial deck.
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
Had horrific mana problems. Dropped and did vintage instead, took 2nd in the 80ish person sanctioned vintage trial. I'm oddly okay with this.
Wizards gave a shout out to Veteran Explorer in their article on ther Eternal Weekend coverage page.
It is super fun to see other mid-rangers like myself joining the cause of Nic Fit. I always knew I would somehow end up on this deck, it just took treasure cruise to finally make it happen.
I think I am going to play Punishing Nic fit as I have learned the style of punishing fire through years of big zoo/maverick/jund.
The questions I am faced with now:
1) What six drop should I run? Broodmate is so cool, but is Primeval just better?
2) Which of these three should I play: Phyrexian Tower, Volrath's Stronghold, Kessig Wolf Run?
Man, these are way cooler than my old Jund problems :)
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