I thought about Sculler too, but it's just such a bad attacker into any sort of board presence. Love it against combo though.
Actually, the strategy with it might be to leave their cantrips in hand and just take any business they have. So you seize them, sculler them, then waste/stoneforge? Make them dig and hope to kill them before they find anything you can't deal with.
I do think Spirit is underrated. It may die easily, but it's a must-kill. You're already playing 12 must-kills in DRS, SFM, and Bob, and decks don't have infinite removal.
Plus as a 3/1 it's a decent clock, especially if they're drawing dead cards and you can remove stuff in its way (or better, strap some equipment to it).
What's hard for this deck is that sweet cards like Liliana and Hymn are pretty bad in a treasure cruise meta. And even though we're using a lot of point discard, fetches, wastes, and removal, delve cards play so poorly with Bob that it's hard for us to take advantage the same way. Murderous Cut might be OK, but I wish we got something more impactful.
Wouldn't you rather discard their combo piece then play a spirit with their hand full of cantrips? :p
And as a 3/1 he trades with a lot of stuff in the fair match up. And if they don't answer him quickly, you can get enough of a board presence to not care about their in hand advantage
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
I really want to explore Timely Hordemate and/or Restoration Angel, I just don't know if 4 cmc is workable. Even saving a DRS with one of these could be worth it, let alone a Stoneforge.
Ithink I'd rather just be on hero instead of that guy.
As someone who plays a singleton Hero, I totally agree. The Hordemate is very situational. You need to attack with another creature and have one in the yard. Not impossible, but I'd much rather have Hero of Bladehold for that mana.
Hero has closed out many games for me. Used to play 2 but found it very clunky. Obviously going down to 1 means I may not see it all in a tournament. But I feel it's worth having that threat in there.
Finally won a GP Trial for New Jersey last Saturday. Deck was mostly the same, except I finally went with 4 Deathrites main deck.
You still running 3 Hymn and 4 Liliana? Those cards just seem to have lost a lot of their "oomph" since they reprinted Ancestral.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
3 Hymn and 3 Liliana. I cut one Liliana for the 4th Deathrite. In the one tournament I made the change, I didn't notice seeing less Lilianas.
Yeah those cards did lose a quite a lot when they printed Cruise and Dig. My record post Cruise against Delver decks is still in my favor so far but I am far more conservative with the +1 ability on Liliana now.
Relic of Progenitus is a card to attack their Cruises. Problem with U/R-Delver is quite a fast deck with their 3/2 flier for U and 4/5s for R.
Pretty much none of the creatures we have are any good against Bolts or Forked Lightning.
Brimaz might be a card to be played against bolts and lightings becoming alot more played.
A possible new toy for black decks:
Malicious Intent BB
Instant
Morbid - If a creature died this turn copy this spell, choos new targets for the copy.
Detroy target non-black creature.
Source:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/m...ous-affliction
The insane utility of this combined with LotV makes her much more attractive to play with again. Also the fact that this creates a copy of itself means your opponent needs 2 counters to stop it.
I have started to put 2 rest in peace main I went down to 2 liliana. It has worked put so far but I don't know if it will stand up over time and spirit of labyrinth has made its way to being almost needed for me because of the blue heavy meta. I deal with
The best cards against the UR Delver deck are Thalia, Spirit, and Abrupt Decay. They essentially have to go VERY deep to go all-in with Swiftspear. Delver is still fragile, and Young Money needs them to blow cards to make tokens. Thalia slows down their development, Decay removes any threat against their minimal countermagic, and Spirit is going to shut down the digs and the Cruises.
It could be worth cutting Liliana/the walkers for a few considerations.
1) If you want to play Thalia, there's room made and more synergy.
2) Liliana is worse with Cruise in the format. It's still an edict, but...
3) Zealous Persecution doers more work against YP, in addition to also killing TNN and buffing your Souls tokens.
Here's the list so far:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Windswept Heath
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Bayou
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
With this list, you still have 2-3 slots in the maindeck (you could just jam 2 ZP in the main and call it a day, or cut the walkers and have a total of 7 slots to play with. I'd go for 4 Thalia, 3 Zealous Persecution or some mix of Orzhov Pontiff, which is very much a real card now).
If you manage to jam some number of ZP in the main, it means you nicely have room in the board for all the lovely things like RIP, Cage, Needle, etc. One card that people are really undervaluing right now: Timely Reinforcements. Burn is back in a big way, and UR Delver/Cruising USA will generally have more creatures than you. 3 mana isn't nothing, but 6 life and 3 tokens is a huge swing in the right direction. If one managed to to clear 2 slots in the board from moving some ZP out, your board could look like:
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 2 Armageddon (if you needed a Miracles clincher)
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 3 Open (more removal, etc.)
-Matt
:D Looks like I have one believer. Have you gotten to use him yet?
Even just killing Bob felt good. His synergy with Tidehollow was nice too; since against elves they couldn't get their card back without losing guys to Haunt. I decayed my own Sculler when they advanced board enough just to -1/-1 them again and seal the win.
Pontiff is pretty sweet right now, as is Timely. We definitely have to try some new cards due to the neutering of Liliana and Hymn. I wish Ascendant Evincar wasn't a 3/3 for 6, but I guess that's good since we run Souls. In fact, the one thing that keeps me off Thalia is that Lingering Souls is so good for us, it's like our Pyromancer. If Liliana isn't good at the moment, one of the Sorins or Ajanis as a curve-topper is appealing.
A card I've been a little curious about is Eidolon of Rhetoric. I don't think the UR decks can beat this card on board unless we block something and they bolt it (as long as it's not the only thing we do, of course; you still have to kill Delver with STP and prevent them from burning you out over several turns). Our spells are probably higher impact than theirs (like Zealous Persecution. And if you're worried about counterspells, Seize them on their turn and Zealous in their upkeep). Meanwhile, we have SFM and DRS to do multiple things per turn with our mana that aren't casting spells. Also is collateral damage against Elves and Storm. Possibly something to consider?
We might be the best home for the new S&T hatebear since we don't have any nonbos with it — even D&T has Aether Vial. Beats Grafdigger's Cage turning off your Souls + Therapies if you run them.
Agreed. Loving this new card. It's spectacularly awesome. Single handedly makes me wanna keep my deck. Going up to the GP this weekend in Nashville. Debating on whether or not to play in the legacy events there. My current list is tested a bit, and I think I can beat miracles at a decent clip, but I'm not so sure about the Delver decks.
Wow Matt. I missed this post, but this main board is very close to my current main. I don't have tops right now and one less inquisition. Also I have the skull main over the SoFaF
What´s S&T and nonbos again? I really lost track.
I think he means Show and Tell. And nonbos i think Means the card doesn't conflict with any other card in the deck. Which is true, the Priest doesn't hurt us at all.
The priest is an interesting creature. LOL, I was hoping for a Flash version of Chains of Mephistopheles. Don't know if I will try it out. But it does hose a lot of things. Aether Vial, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, Reanimate, Green Sun's Zenith, Natural Order.
Malicious Affliction is an interesting one. A doom blade that conditionally could be a 2nd one. Also interesting as since it's a copy, even if the spell is countered, the copy still happens. I'm a sucker for removal spells, especially if they could be 2 for 1. I think the best deck for it is Nic Fit. Veteran Explorer is a creature you want to die and you play Cabal Therapies for a cheap way for a creature to die.
^ yup.
I'm a sucker for flash creatures so I will be maindecking this thing. Combined with SOTL we have some nice weapons atm to make up for Liliana's neutering. We're getting close to D&T strategy wise but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Nahiri is my new celebrity crush. 5 cmc is a ton but with a lot of basics and DRS we could hit it, and she makes Batterskull so much better. A great late game card, wish her ult was a little better but it's not nothing.
That removal spell is really interesting, and I think you're right about triggering our own morbid. Whether it's therapy or Jitte-ing a souls token, it's very doable.
I think if I drop liliana for the flash bear I'm swapping deathrite for Mom
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