Has anybody else been testing with Courser of Kruphix? That card is amazing in Nic Fit and I can't believe it isn't more popular.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I went that road few months ago. (Wasn't the only one, by the way)Originally Posted by Qweerios
During my testing, the card was not bad but not good either...
The major issue I had with it (and the main reason why he got the axe) is that I have never gsz'ed for it. Like N.E.V.E.R.
Spending a GSZ & 4 mana for it, is not where you ever want to be (and, if I remember well, HoneyT came to the same conclusion).
If you draw into it. It is an "OK" card, not impacting the board as much as you could think.
So, as a 1-of, I dismissed him.
PS: I already wrote about him in a former post let me dig a bit. I'll edit my post later.
Found !
Last edited by Ralf; 10-29-2014 at 07:53 AM.
Because you don't GSZ for it, it means it should be cut? I am not sure if it is that straightforward.
With top you generate card advantage and you gain life, which is good in the current metagame. The only problem is that it's a bit slow I would say.
In any Nic Fit shell, space is tight.
Nic Fit is known to be playing:
- redundant ramp creature (3-4 copies of one card = veteran explorer)
- few utility creature (1-2 copies of one card= eternal witness)
- very few finishers (very often as a 1-of= thragtusk, sigarda, titan)
At CMC=3, Courser cannot be considered as belonging to the first category. I cannot imagine a competitive Nic Fit shell where you could be playing 3-4 Courser. I might be proved wrong here.
So the following blatant question is:
Could Courser replace Eternal Witness spot ?
Check my former post. I don't think so because you don't generate immediate CA. And that is the main problem with this card.
So we come to the last question:
Could Courser replace another 1-of spot ?
I guess, we all ended up here during our testing of this card.
You can play it as a 1-of. But its effect is rather too slow and not impacting enough to change the tide of a game.
In other words, when I gsz for a creature other than a ramping one, I want that creature to be able to shut my opponent's mouth for good or I want to gain massive advantage from it.
I ran a Courser in Thune for a while. The card was good, but I have the same experience the others are describing where I never wanted to tutor for it. That means that the card should be run as a 2-3 in order to see one fairly regularly without needing to blow a tutor on it...and frankly I don't think that the space is there. I don't think that, in the current metagame, Courser is a better card than Finks. I do think that there are metagames where the reverse is true, though.
Congrats on your win against Ari, that was an awesome match! Your list looks very similar to mine, with the big difference being that I have 4 deathrite shamans and then had to tweak the numbers to have enough blue cards. What do you feel over/under-performed? Here's mine, for reference:
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Baleful Strix
2 Bayou
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Force of Will
1 Forest
3 Island
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Dig Through Time
2 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Notion Thief
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Thragtusk
SB: 2 Arcane Laboratory
Hey Guys,
First time posting to the thread, but I've lurked for a while. I've been playing Nic Fit in one form or another for about 2.5 years now and thought I would share my current list:
Lands
2x Bayou
3x Forest
2x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
3x Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4x Baleful Strix
1x Clever Impersonator
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Shriekmaw
1x Thragtusk
1x Trinket Mage
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Aetherling
Spells
3x Birthing Pod
4x Brainstorm
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Pernicious Deed
1x Pithing Needle
1x Recurring Nightmare
Sideboard
2x Back to Basics
4x Force of Will
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Golgari Charm
2x Krosan Grip
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Sower of Temptation
2x Swan Song
Some explanations:
I'm absolutely in love with Pod in a Nic Fit shell. Since it top 16'd the GP in Paris last year I've moved from traditional B/G and Junk variants to BUG Pod and been very pleased. We have a vibrant local Legacy scene here in South Florida with weekly tournaments averaging about 20 players. The metagame is fairly diverse with the following decks represented every week:
BUG Delver
UR Delver
UWR Delver
Burn
Miracles
Elves
Turbo Eldrazi
Stompy (Red Chalice deck)
Death and Taxes
Reanimator
ANT
Seemingly strange card choices:
Doomwake Giant- This card shines against U/R Delver, Death and Taxes, and Elves. It also does work against UWR Delver with True-Name. Can be cloned to get two triggers.
Aetherling- I know that Grave Titan is the traditional finisher, however I've found Aetherling to be more effective in a field with Miracles in it. It is next to impossible for them to beat once it is in play.
Clever Impersonator- Being able to Pod for my own Jace is awesome! Also, clones are great in this shell.
I would love any and all feedback regarding my list and sideboard. I'm very open to suggestions and am always looking for interesting new cards to try. I'm also going to start posting tournament reports from our weekly Legacy.
-Mike
I've been practicing a pretty normalish junk value version a lot the past few days (you can find my list on the previous page) and I've read the whole primer, and I have a couple questions I was hoping some of the Junk players could help me with.
1) I've opted for Deluge over Deed for a couple reasons. One is the surprise factor — I don't want to give players the opportunity to board in something like Needle or Revoker against me and have it be successful. Another is that I like Sylvan Library (but I'll ask more about that later). Finally, I feel like against decks like Cruise Delver and Deathblade it's better to just pay 1-2 life to wipe their board of annoyances like Swiftspear, Young Pyromancer, TNN, and SFM than give them a turn to get those guys loose which could end up costing more life in the long run. How do you feel about that strategy?
2) Regarding Sylvan & Deed: I agree that Sylvan in your Deed deck is bad, but I do like Sylvan as a companion to SDT at the moment. (Running a 2-2 split). In the primer it says that this deck uses its life total aggressively as a resource, but I don't feel that's really the case in my testing. Yeah, we're taking hits here and there off a Delver or whatever early, but busting through with a bomb like Tusk or Siege Rhino undoes that in a hurry. Am I misunderstanding that point? It's not like we're playing Thoughtseize or Bob or Flame Rift. And even if you have Sylvan and SDT out at the same time, we have so many shuffle effects that we can pick the two best cards, shuffle SDT away, and still have library manipulation and card advantage if you need it at our disposal.
3) Is Teeg in the main worth it? I don't think so. I tried it in midrange Junk and it just didn't do enough against Cruise. Miracles appears to be on somewhat of a downswing as well. I can see boarding one or a couple just because Miracles/combo hate it so much, but GSZ seems like the best card in our deck and I would hate to have a dead card in game 1s.
4) I'm running a single Batterskull for funsies at the moment and no SFMs. In fact, I don't have a single creature in the deck I can't GSZ for. What I can't quite figure out is how SFM fits in this deck. I feel like with 4 VetEx, 3-4 DRS and 2-3 SFM you're just pretty close to the Junk midrange shell as is. I could see playing DRS or SFM, but not both, as their roles would be the same in presenting a threat (ramp/drain/Batterskull) even if you don't have a VetEx. The time they spend dealing with that threat you can spend finding and setting up VetEx for your other bombs. (And I would be more comfortable playing Batterskull in this deck because it's less likely you'll just end up with it stranded in your hand). But DRS as a Swiss army knife is really valuable. Maybe it could go down to 1 as a GSZ target and a small SFM package could be added? Or is that just weaker than playing multiples of both?
5) I'm trying to keep the curve relatively low with 2 Finks. I currently have 2 Thragtusk, 1 Siege Rhino at the top of my GSZ curve. Should those numbers be reversed? Rhino is a major beast, but Thragtusk carries a lot of water.
6) I know a couple cards are silly in my build. I probably won't play Boon Satyr and will probably move Bow of Nylea to the board. Bow is really sick against Delver decks, it has great chemistry with GSZ and Finks. For now, I'm playing Satyr because I have an unhealthy obsession with Flash creatures. I do really like Nylea herself, though. She needs another creature on board, but even a VetEx can be a real threat with her in play. You can turn her on kind of easily too. Those are, however, the kinds of cards I would cut first.
7) Finally, and I should've posted this closer to the SFM question — does this deck need a combo finish or other toolbox to be competitive? I've seen Depths/Stage, Thune/Feeder. I have considered running a Knight to find Karakas against Sneak/Reanimator which I expect to be in force. Just wondering if this deck can play a straight fair game or if it needs a little more "oomph" to compete.
1) I would run some number of both between main and side. Perhaps the answer is hedging a little with a 2-1 deed/deluge split.
2) Sylvan is definitely powerful. I've moved to a 2-1 Top-Sylvan split in almost all versions lately, and been impressed with it.
3) It gives you a random out to combo game 1 that you wouldn't otherwise have. He's not wonderful, don't get me wrong, but a lot of combo decks (including elves) really struggle if you can land him game 1.
4) Batterskull without SFM is fine. There's nothing wrong with doing this.
5) I would run 2 Rhinos before 2 Thrags. Thrag is ostensibly more powerful, but dies to Bolt, doesn't race as well, and is more expensive.
6) I don't have time to comment on this right now. I'll try to get to it later.
7) A combo finish gives you an effective way of ending the game, which Nic Fit as a whole tends to struggle with. Nic Fit is very good at getting ahead. It is less good at STAYING ahead. At its core, it's still a grindy GBx deck, which have never been efficient at wrapping up loose ends in the history of magic.
If you're having trouble with delver add a Tusk or two to the main, another deed, and another abrupt decay. This deck should prey on delver decks. How has Arcane Laboratory been for you?
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
Do you guys think that this top-library Split is also correct in punishing fit (3/1 - 2/2)? I mean, without rhino and BS, it gets a little more difficult to abuse the card draw, but on the other hand, with PF and decay package it's easier to stall early game and avoid earlier hits.
Thanks. I agree that 2 Rhinos and 3 Deathrites is correct in the current meta, with Batterskull and Tusk as reslient 5-drops. I am planning to play in a GPT on Saturday and I expect 40% of the field to be on some sort of cruise-fueled RUG, UR, or UWR delver, and maybe a further 20% on BUG delver/cruise control. I know there will be Reanimator, S&T, Elves, and miracles, but I don't expect much Storm combo, so I think this should be a really good deck choice.
Because I know there will be Reanimator and S&T — at least one of each, possible 2-3 — I am leaning heavily toward playing a small KOTR package (2 KOTR, 1 Karakas) over the "fun" cards I played the first time I played the deck. My current basic setup is 3 Forest, 2 Swamp, 2 Plains, but I don't need 2 plains, especially with Karakas. I am trying to figure out what the best card is to replace it. I feel it's either Savannah #2, Heath #4, Horizon Canopy, or Stirring Wildwood (I like this card as a Knight target that can use excess mana in stall situations, also sticks around post Deed/Deluge). I don't think Bog is worth it because I don't like CIPT swamp with a one-shot ability. (CIPT Savannah with late upside in a deck that's going to make lots of land drops is fine, I think). I also only have a Wildwood out of all those cards, haha. The fact that Knight can be a huge beater isn't insignificant, either. (Of course, she has to come out against other DRS decks).
I'll post a couple more lists this week as I figure out what the right balance/curve is. Thanks again for your help.
I've found the 6-drops to be pretty much interchangeable, though I do think Consecrated Sphinx is the best of them all. I would switch Frost Titan to Grave Daddy in a meta light on Show and Tell decks (or with more fair decks in general), since my list is already running enough blue cards to support Force of Will even without Frosty the Titan. After the tournament, the number of miracles decks I played against had me actually considering Future Sight over Sphinx to dodge the creature removal, but I feel like I would run out of ways to actually kill my opponent.
Vendilion Clique was awesome, both as a 1-of in the main deck and out of the sideboard, and I would never leave home with less than 2 in my 75 after Eternal Weekend. Also, I never got to do it at the tournament but it came up in testing: Clique is awesome with Sphinx and Notion Thief, and can also randomly hose a D&T player who has Spirit of the Labyrinth in play.
Scavenging Ooze gave me some much-needed breathing room against aggressive decks while also providing splash hate against graveyard strategies, and was just an all-around solid card both during the weekend and during testing.
I will say, there are a lot of decks that cannot beat Thragtusk, plain and simple.
The only card that really underperformed was Baleful Strix, which is why I had initially cut it down to three. I don't think I want to go any lower specifically to keep my blue count up because Force of Will was such a huge boon against unfair strategies.
Playable?
Creeping Greatvine
3gg
Creature - Plant Elemental
Trample
1G: Target creature you control has base power and toughness 5/5 until end of turn and gains trample until end of turn
5/5
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
Actually, my testing of Courser has been phenomenal. I only played a few games with him (Jund and Deathblade) and I would often GSZ for him, usually in topdeck mode, and really appreciate the effect. I honestly don't know what else you'd want to GSZ for at 3 mana that would be equally good. Witness is great too but much more situational. Courser is extremely versatile. a 2/4 body is surprisingly resilient, gaining life is always good, he generates card advantage, filtering draws with fetchlands is great too, and simply knowing what you will draw in advance allows you to better sequence your plays. Courser is definitely one of my favorite cards to have or seek when I have a Liliana around and I am trying to keep the game locked down. Courser is one of those cards that breathes life back into late fetchlands and gives you a good reason not to crack them right away. A Courser carrying a SoFaI is no joke either, that's a lot of small effects that snowball quickly.
So far, the cards I end up GSZ'ing for the most are in the following order:
1) Explorer
2) Arbor
3) Deathrite
4) Courser
5) Sigarda
6) Teeg
7) Witness
8) Reclamation Sage
9) Ooze
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
The card is nice.
But I'm afraid you are making some confusion, here, between the overall "objective power" of a card and its "efficiency with other card".
It may prove to be phenomenal but only in a peculiar list (like yours).
My understanding, right now, is that it may shine in some very specific game state where you've landed a Liliana (still on 4 liliana MD?) and you & your opponent are running low on gas & removal (cards in hand) -> Liliana has to die first and Courser gets to live a few turn.
In that setup, Courser may help you dig from your hole faster than your opponent and give you the edge to take the lead.
I can see how the card has proven to be bonker in certain match such as Jund or XXXBlade, because those matchups (with balanced standard starting hands on each side) are just a grind feast. And clearly, Courser, here, can help you win the attrition war.
But I'm glad it is working for you.
I took that BUG list out for a spin for the first time last night and managed to top 8 a GPT. I'll try to write up a quick tournament report later today.
Congrats Cliq!
Hey guys, just wanted to introduce myself. I have been a lurker for a few months now of the Nic Fit thread and figured it was time to make a post and say whats up. I've always been a midrange player and tend to play decks like Jund and Aggro Loam. Right now I have reanimator built just because of its sheer power and ability to beat a lot of the decks in the New England area.
I plan on making a switch over to Nic Fit and I believe the build I have decided on is going to be ScapeFit. I love the fact that it gives you the ability to win out of no where which is something that I feel the deck needs.
Here is the decklist I am at (pre-commander release) and plan on taking it to a GPT this Sunday:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Huntermaster of the Fells
2 Wood Elves
1 Thurn, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Slaughter Games
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Sun’s Zentih
3 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei’s Diving Top
1 Sylvan Library
3 Verdant Cataboms
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut
1 Kessig Wolf Run
SB:
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 From the Ashes (12post matchups)
3 REB
1 Scapeshift
If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks!
Knight list:
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Batterskull
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Bow of Nylea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Marsh Flats
3 Thoughtseize
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pernicious Deed
4 ???
I feel like I'm getting closer to something that will be good in the expected meta for my GPT. Bryan's last post reminded me though that there is definitely a 12post player I might have to deal with. Knight is good there too, because they can't beat a Karakas outside Pithing Needle (and we have lots of ways to deal with that.) But I don't think I can beat a Prime Time or for that matter a Progenitus out of Elves barring a huge Toxic Deluge. (I also never realized how much I leaned on Grafdigger's Cage to win games, haha. In fact, that seems like a prime enemy of ours.)
So I've got 4 sideboard slots and am considering these cards:
Council's Judgment
Liliana of the Veil
Krosan Grip
Abrupt Decay
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Feels weird not having a flier, which is why I feel like Sigarda should be somewhere. Also considering adding a SFM package in those 4 slots (3 SFM, 1 SoFI) for when I want to board out VetEx.
There's QPM vs. Reclamation Sage vs. ??? as well for enchantments/artifacts. I loathe Elves so much I don't ever want to even look at a Sage but if it's been better in this deck I'll choke back my pride and run it.
12post has lots of outs to Karakas, its called infinite turns! 12post players I know will usually make sure they have their own karakas in play so once they hardcast emrakul and take an extra turn, they can do that the rest of the game.
Edit: They also have no problems just casting Primeval Titans and swinging. They run repeals for anything that might get in their way. I know mono green lists will also run thespian stage + dark depths.
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