All B/R update speculation.

[Lemnear]

Yeah, "blue tempo decks are really fucking good" is not exactly a new thing in this format.

Beyond that, "decks that play brainstorm are overwhelmingly favored to win stuff" is also not exactly new.

Too bad that Alex B. will miss the era of running up to 8 draw-4-for-U...

[testing32]

Look, ALL of them are playing lands. That's not very diverse, is it?

How is that even relevant when you have several completly different strategies present? It's like looking at a game of football and saying that the game is boring because all of them are playing with with a striker.

Diversity is not about the cards you see, why would it be? Diversity is about how much your mind is challenged.

I fundamentally disagree that diversity isn't about the cards you see.

When they decided to ban mental misstep color diversity was important. Now it doesn't seem to matter.

Having a meta where the choices are basically Death and Taxes, Elves or Brainstorm isn't healthy imo.

"Unfortunately, it turned out poorly. Looking at high-level tournaments, instead of results having blue and nonblue decks playing Mental Misstep, there are more blue decks than ever. The DCI is banning Mental Misstep, with the hopes of restoring the more diverse metagame that existed prior to the printing of Mental Misstep."

[Lord Seth]

I was about to explain how the format was reasonably diverse and balanced before Treasure Cruise was printed and became dominated by Miracles and Delver - mainly U/R - after that, which does suggest that Treasure Cruise may the problem card, and that banning it might lead to a diverse metagame again. And that drawing 3 really is much better than drawing 3 then putting back 2. But the quoted statement struck me as so funny that I will just say:

Only if you aren't playing on camera.

Drawing 3 is definitely better than drawing 3 and putting back 2 (the only possible exceptions really being if you really want a Delver to flip or want to set up a Miracle), but there's more to the cards than that. Brainstorm is an Instant, which gives it considerable added flexibility as well as letting you hide cards from discard. It also has far fewer restrictions on when it can be cast, allowing it to be played in more decks and is affected by less hate.

There's a reason Brainstorm is considered better than Ancestral Vision. Admittedly, Treasure Cruise is better than Ancestral Vision, but there's more to the comparison than just drawing 3 cards vs. drawing 3 and putting back 2.

[Star|Scream]

I fundamentally disagree that diversity isn't about the cards you see.

When they decided to ban mental misstep color diversity was important. Now it doesn't seem to matter.

Having a meta where the choices are basically Death and Taxes, Elves or Brainstorm isn't healthy imo.

"Unfortunately, it turned out poorly. Looking at high-level tournaments, instead of results having blue and nonblue decks playing Mental Misstep, there are more blue decks than ever. The DCI is banning Mental Misstep, with the hopes of restoring the more diverse metagame that existed prior to the printing of Mental Misstep."

Yeah, but if they ban brainstorm soooo many people will leave the format.

[Lord Seth]

I've said for a few years now that the failure of Standard will be the redemption of Legacy and Vintage. Fight the good fight and convert kids over from Standard and eventually we will have our reprints. The question is, to me, not if this happens, but, do they essentially kill the game trying not to do it. This is, however, the wrong thread to discuss these kinds of things though.

This is the kind of idea that seems great ("if Standard fails, they'll support Legacy more and reprint cards!") but doesn't consider how Legacy would have to change as a result.

Standard's rotation helps with something majorly: It avoids power creep. Okay, there's still been some of that, but it hasn't been that large, and in fact there's been some powering down of some elements. This benefits Legacy, because it means that the format manages to have some relative stability.

This all changes if Standard fails and Legacy becomes the new major format (though they'd more likely just switch over to Modern as the major one). Then Magic has to adopt a model more similar to Yu-Gi-Oh to ensure product is being sold.

I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh, but I've talked to some players about it. Yu-Gi-Oh, for those not in the know, has really just one format that doesn't rotate. So Konami has to come up with ways to ensure their products are constantly selling. There are two methods to ensure this: Power creep and bannings. Power creep is self-explanatory; you constantly ratchet up the power of cards so people have to keep getting the new ones to remain competitive. Bannings are the other. While indeed some cards are banned for legitimate reasons (being actually too good), sometimes the true reasons seem to be less savory. Decks using older cards are outperforming your newer ones? Ban those old cards and force players to get the new cards, then eventually unban them when they're no longer as good. These basically achieve the effects of Standard rotation in that it devalues older cards while constantly forcing you to get the newer ones without having to do Standard rotation.

So basically, the death of Standard might mean they'd rescind the Reserved List, reprint the staples, and push Legacy. It'd also mean Legacy would transform into something considerably different than it is because of the above notes. A lot of Legacy players mock Standard, but fact is Standard is required to make Legacy into the format you like by maintaining a reasonably standard power level.

Also, something regarding reprints: I'm not necessarily sure if this is a consequence of their "cards don't rotate" system or has a different reason behind it, but Yu-Gi-Oh is also huge on reprints. This seems great--hey, the cards are cheaper now!--but the way they go about it is far more dramatic than anything Wizards of the Coast has done, even in reprints for expensive stuff like the fetchlands. Let's take an example. Evilswarm Exciton Knight was an extremely in-demand card from the Legacy of the Valiant set, which was released on January 24. Its price was something like $80. Then, 8 months later in August, it got a reprint and its price is now something like $25. And from what I hear about the way they've handled these things in the past, it's likely to get another reprint to crash it further.

[Humphrey]

Yeah, but if they ban brainstorm soooo many people will leave the format.

There might be a few guys upgrading their pools to vintage, but most players will stay at legacy. Overall the card pool stays the same, but the formats speed will drop a whole turn and will spawn new and interesting decks.

[menace13]

Look, ALL of them are playing lands. That's not very diverse, is it?

Awesome non-sequitur is awesome. Mise well just use "look, they have spells".

[HammafistRoob]

If standard dies the whole game goes with it. Quit day dreaming already. Cards don't get banned anymore.

[DLifshitz]

Brainstorm is an Instant, which gives it considerable added flexibility as well as letting you hide cards from discard. It also has far fewer restrictions on when it can be cast, allowing it to be played in more decks and is affected by less hate.

This is true, of course - but there's also less need to cast TC in response to something (I mean, if it were possible) than Brainstorm. Brainstorm mostly gives you card selection, so it's advantageous to keep your options open for as long as possible. With TC, you get all 3 cards anyway, so there's no incentive to wait. The flexibility of an instant just isn't needed as much.

TC (and Ancestral) are just totally different animals from Brainstorm...

[John Cox]

Anyone know offhand when the next banned list update is?

[Dice_Box]

Anyone know offhand when the next banned list update is?

Yep, it's written on the last ban list following the guidelines set out from now on. The week after the next Prerelease.

[Sylphnir]

So it should be mid january, no?
I expect no changes for legacy/vintage though.

[Dice_Box]

Google "next mtg ban announcement" and click the third link down the page.

"Open wide, here comes the aeroplane."

[John Cox]

Thanks,
Tl/Dr;
Jan 19

[FieryBalrog]

Expect Legacy: No Changes.

[testing32]

Expect Legacy: No Changes.

Of course, they have ignored the problem for years now.

WotC could really learn something from Hearthstone when it comes to balance and nurturing a format.

[Sylphnir]

Aaron Forsythe has apparently stated they're discussing the bans of Treasure Cruise for legacy and Jeskay Ascendancy for modern @Pax Australia.
It's not decided yet though.
He also reiterated that they usually don't playtest for eternal.

[Einherjer]

Aaron Forsythe has apparently stated they're discussing the bans of Treasure Cruise for legacy and Jeskay Ascendancy for modern @Pax Australia.
It's not decided yet though.

Any word on whether this will happen before GP NJ or GP Madrid, respectively?

Thank you.

Greetings

[Sylphnir]

They want to wait how it pans out so it might not happen before Dragons of Tarkir if ever. (third set of the khans block)
Changes for this year are rather unlikely.

[Gheizen64]

Aaron Forsythe has apparently stated they're discussing the bans of Treasure Cruise for legacy and Jeskay Ascendancy for modern @Pax Australia.
It's not decided yet though.
He also reiterated that they usually don't playtest for eternal.

Jesus christ no. No. If they seriously ban TC i'm out.