The 3-4 dead cards are any Leylines after the first, and often the 4th if you don't have it opening. The list I'm referencing runs Mental Note, so the threshold issue really isn't there anymore.Originally Posted by AnwarA101
I dislike Mystical Tutor because I believe the other Turoing effects are much, much stronger, and it's extremely weak when going off. I do see the necessity of it in the deck, and I wouldn't cut it. The third Mystical and third Mox are debateable, which is why they've been interchanged.
I'm not sure that the third Mystical Tutor is debatable. I would consider either 3 or 4 Mystical Tutors, but no less than 3. The card is really strong in this deck. It may be one of the weaker tutors, but it essentially let's you find the strongest tutor in the deck, or get the missing mana source/etc you need to go off or setup. It's one of the many reasons why this deck is so consistent.
Please keep the thread on topic. This isn't the place to disuss the status of a deck.
Pfft I've tested the "new" version with MD Grid, and it plays alot different. It is good that the deck has more MD protection without loosing much speed though. I also like the Mental Note, Although I will test Strategic Planning. But is the deck really better? Counters slows down both versions, but where the old version just plays Double Tendrils, this version tries to find and resolve a Defense Grid and then the opponent must have less then 3 mana free or he still can Force IGG. And against Aggro you have 7 weak cards in the deck. In the my last version I didn't even played them in the SB anymore. I packed I SB full of Thresh/Confidant hate, with Massacre, Disrupt and Confidant.
About Tutors, I believe 9 Tutors with 4 draw spells( Mental note is only cantrip) is the minimum. Combo is all about tutoring and drawing card so you need as much as possible. I don't like Chrome Mox because it doesn't speed up the kill, is carddisadvantage and is often( atleast for me) a dead card.
EDIT: Btw this is the list that top 8ted I think
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Island
2x Swamp
2x Underground Sea
1x Cabal Pit
4x Brainstorm
3x Mental Note
3x Mystical Tutor
2x Intuition
1x Echoing Truth
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Ill-Gotten Gains
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Infernal Tutor
1x Tendrils of Agony
3x Defense Grid
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Last edited by Benie Bederios; 08-15-2006 at 05:17 PM.
What is the usual build for IGGy Pop now adays? I want to get into Legacy and this deck seemed like a good one but there are too many builds to pick from and I want to make a good start.
Thanks for your time.
Bill.
Look one post above yours. Reading the thread is also a good way to get into Legacy. It says that it Top 8ed. Give that one a try.
AoD
Now rocking a job at Off the Wall Games!!
~Team Necro~
Here's one of the Top 8 lists:
Here's the guy's report: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29611.0
//Land
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Cabal Pit
//Fast mana
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
//Combo
4 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Tendrils of Agony
//Disruption
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Echoing Truth
//Search
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Infernal Tutor
//Sideboard
4 Xantid swarm
3 In the Eye of Chaos
3 Massacre (this thing was amazing, it was a free wrath in 5 of my 9 matches)
2 Gaea's Blessing
2 Chain of vapor
1 Echoing truth
I noticed the list a few posts above is 61 cards... just saying...
PS. Quick newb question. How is it that this deck does so well? The primer on SCG says Threshold is one of it's worst match-ups. Thresh isn't a rare deck in the meta-game... So did the deck change to be good vs. it or something?
Last edited by FallenOmnipotent; 08-20-2006 at 12:13 AM.
Team Drain Bamaged
For Solidarity ***** is also a very though matchup. But it also does well. With enough practice this deck can win against *****. Also the primer was written before Leyline and Infernal Tutorcame out, and those card( especially Leyline) have made this deck capable of killing *****.
This deck can adept to different situations. This is the way how it wins against *****. Sometimes you have an insane draw and just kill the opponent T1. Sometimes the games against ***** will take alot of turns and you have to play multiple small Tendrils' over multiple turns.
In short. The deck is capable of winning against *****, but it must be piloted by a good player, and you must have a bit of luck too.
Yeah I know the deck runs 61 cards, but I never played that version, it's just the list that topped 8.
owned by the oracle
Search your library for an instant or sorcery card and reveal that card. Shuffle your library, then put the card on top of it.
no grabbing leds or lands, still got dark rituals tho
Yes I think he was reffering to dark ritual and cabal ritual when he stated that it can get mana.
Is this version more consistent then the others? cause it looks like this version needs 2-4 acceleration spells an intuition/infernal tutor and if your using intuition you also need tendrils in gy/hand or IGG in hand when your going off, the list also screws over your ability to go nuts off double tendrils late game, it just seems less consistent, I mean i've tested a version that takes out Leyline for grid, and even then my hands are clogged up with too many defense grids and too little buisness spells for me to go off, this version seems like it'll have even more protection and less I win more often.
I've tested the deck and I went back to the old one( with triple Tendrils.)
I don't like the deck for the following reasons:
No more intuition for Tendrils of Agony. While this is small difference, sometimes I don't have the mana to Intuition for Infernal Tutor and after that for Tendrils.
No more double Tendrils. The Defense Grid method isn't particulary faster. You must search for Grid and resolve it. After that, if your opponent has 3 mana open and a FoW in the grave, you still can't combo. Then you have to wait until you can play 9 spells and kill because your opponent will never let a IGG resolve.
More deadcards. Against aggro decks you have zeven dead cards( Leyline is quite weak in the aggro matchup too.) And Defense Grid is completely dead, the only use you can think of is that is a spell for the stormcount.
What I do like about the deck is the Mental Note. In this deck it means you draw 1.5 card for 1 mana. It also gives ***** for Cabal Ritual. It also is nice with Brainstorm. T1 land EOT brainstorm, during your upkeep Mental Note, put unwanted cards in the yard and draw new ones. The only problem is, that it doesn't make the deck less yarddependent.
In the version I'm testin now, I even removed Grid from the SB, because most of the time I found double Tendrils more effective. My SB at the moment is:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Disrupt
1 Massacre
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
1 Rebuild
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Duress
Not really. At the end of the IGG chain you can intuition for infernal tutor, and IT for Tendrils. Just remember it needs 2 mana more.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
And remember folks, make sure you float a BLUE mana at the end of the Iggy chain if you are planning on casting Intuition at the end to snag Tendrils or Infernal Tutor. Once in a while in goldfishing I will get lazy and fail to float a blue at the end of the chain. Of course I can take it back in testing, but that probably won't slide in a big tourny! 0_o
Team Unicorn- "I'm Horny."
"The Wandering One" of Legacy.
"Glimmervoid, Go."
At the end of the Igg Chain, if its turn three I don't have 9 mana, in fact I don't even have 6 mana and a cabal ritual/LED
to get that much on turn three you have to like cast trip to quad accel into 4 floating after you IGG, thats rit with 2 lands into cabal rit (unthreshed) into LED, and then even then your cabal rit has to be threshed, thats really hard considering you need to intuition first, I think the other version will go off much faster then the defense grid main version, since all it needs are 3-4 accel spells and and intuition/infernal+1 IGG to win the game and often has a tendrils or extra IGG on top of that.
I'm not saying which version is better (i'm currently testing the grid version, but like more the 3 tendrils one), but it's not difficult to combo on turn 3 using intuition.
Look at these scenarios.
- turn 2: lotus petal or chrome mox -> intuition. Combo on turn 3
- turn 3: you have threshold and so got enough mana from cabal ritual. Combo on turn 3.
- you have tendrils in hand/grave. Combo on turn 3
- you have IGG in hand. Combo on turn 3
- you have 3-4 acceleration pieces. Combo on turn 3.
What makes 2nd or 3rd scenario possible (or much more probable) is Mental Note.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
What do you think about Mox Diamond? It gives more speed, and more storm when going off. When you have 3 lands in your opening hand the card disadvantage is not so bad...
edit:
sorry for my bad english :)
Last edited by HdH_Cthulhu; 08-30-2006 at 10:03 AM.
Hello HdH_Cthulhu, and Welcome to The Source!
Please read the Forum Rules and FAQ for New Members before you continue posting. There are strict guidelines on grammar and spelling on this site, please familiarize yourself with them.
As for Mox Diamond, it generally is necessary to run 22 lands in a deck to support the card, and this deck runs 15-17. You can, however, run Chrome Mox, which has seen some success in various builds.
Last Sunday I playes the deck (standart variant with Leylines and 3 Tendrils, 16 lands with an additional USea instead of a Cabal Pit) at a local tournament.
The fantastic amount og 70 players showed up and having placed 18th I might be happy (I had the best opp score of all players with 12 points) but the way the tournament went, I'm a little bit disappointed.
My Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Massacre
1 Rebuild
1 Rushing River
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Cabal Therapy (just wanted to test them, liked to have a little bit disruption)
As I didn't write down any notes after the rounds, I cannot give you a real tournament report but a some information.
Round 1 - U/w Landstill - 2:0
I was a bit lucky *g*. Just drawing exactely the cards you need and getting your IGG countered (Leyline in play) with the CS being the 9th spell 2 Mana open and a Tendrils in Hand as a 2nd turn kill is nice...
Round 2 - Suicide/r - 2:0
Although some players are afraid of this match-up, I'm not. Let him discard your hand, save IGG with Brainstorm or play Mystical for IGG and win the next turn. Ok, in reality this isn't ever so easy. The truth is, that I was able to save a IGG this way with a Dark Rit and a useless card left in my Hand while he attacked with a Spector, picking the wrong card (from his point of view :)).
Round 3 - Goblins - 1:2
This might have been the revenge for my 1st round lucky play. Too many things went wrong here. In the 1st game I draw bad cards, in the 2nd game Rushing River was a match winner (Pillar and Crypt) but then...
He started with a Lacey. During my turn I casted Cabal Therapy naming Goblin Matron but he showed me 2 Mogg Fanatic, 1 Goblin Ringleader, 2 Pyrostatic Pillar and he draw a Wasteland then - no chance of winning.
Round 4 - NQG/b - 2:0
This was easy with Swarms in the 2nd game. I cannot remember this match exactely but I know that he even made some mistakes.
Round 5 - Loam Confinement - 2:0
Just an easy match with a little back up in form of Echoing Truth and Leyline is nice too (Loams).
Now you can imagine why I'm a little bit disappointed to get only 12 points after standing 4:1 after 5 rounds.
Round 6 and 7 - U/w Landstill - 0:2
Bad match-up, missing luck of the 1st round and being mana screwed in round 7 is no fun. By the way in round 6 another funny thing happened to me. I saw my only chance to win in drawing many cards. I even managed it to get 3 Confidants out but the first turn I could get 3 extra cards I saw 2 Tendrils...
(besides only 1 IGG the only cards with a cc4).
Nevertheless I have to say that I like this deck a lot but I'm thinking of playing without Leylines in the future. Even though it did not happen this tournament, I can remember situations when I drew a Leyline (bad with an Infernal Tutor in hand - but not too bad if you have enough mana acceleration) and the next turn again a Leyline...
I just don't want to draw this card and 3 of them is too less to get one in your opening hand.
That's why I tend to test Duress and/or Defense Grids and maybe less Tendrils.
Another thing I have problems with is a situation where I need mana of a LED.
After having played all my mana acceleration and putting IGG on the stack I need to crack the LED in response (imange I have Infernal Tutor left in hand and want to get it back with the IGG). Then the opponents has got (yes, not has still because of the stack/timing rules) the opportunity to counter the IGG leaving you with some mana and 0 cards in hand.
If I plaed MD disruption (Grid or Duress) this problem could be solved.
What do you think?
Regarding LED, the susceptibility to counters post-LED has been around forever, and therefore you should only do something like IGG, break LED, when you're sure IGG will resolve, or it's absolutely necessary to attempt to go off.
Being as that may, the control matchup is still difficult and some measures should be taken to improve it. Both bomholmm and TimDeluxeIt have added defense grid to their builds. D.grid main also was shown to be viable when it T8'd at Gencon.
Last edited by saxking93; 08-30-2006 at 01:15 PM. Reason: spelling
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