All B/R update speculation.

[Barook]

Jesus christ no. No. If they seriously ban TC i'm out.

If the current MTGO game is any indication, then the meta we're heading for is neither interesting, fun or healthy. Introducing 4x Ancestral Recall to the format was a retarded move. Fuck a metagame where you face ~40% Delver decks, because that's what MODO is right now.

Banning Jetski Ascendancy in Modern wouldn't suprise me, even if it doesn't put up results, because it breaks their T4 rule really, really hard. Hilariously enough, somebody on the SCG Open this week found a build that appearently breaks Jeskai Ascendancy for Standard, too - with significantly less derp and the ability to win even without Ascendancy.

[testing32]

Aaron Forsythe has apparently stated they're discussing the bans of Treasure Cruise for legacy and Jeskay Ascendancy for modern @Pax Australia.

Doesn't surprise me. But, I am dissapointed.

[Dice_Box]

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/m...lia?page=4#c85

Can't believe I just linked Salvation...

[davelin]

Jesus christ no. No. If they seriously ban TC i'm out.

You are that attached to a metagame about a month old?

[FieryBalrog]

Jesus christ no. No. If they seriously ban TC i'm out.

If they don't ban TC I'm out. So net +0 players either way!

[Gheizen64]

You are that attached to a metagame about a month old?

No i'm disgusted by the fact that they let this format be 80% blue for years because of brainstorm, then suddendly TC come out, the format is as blue as it has ever been, only we finally have new decks popping out and it's a problem. Uuh what is this, players have to think? Ban it! Let's have ten more years of cantrip.dec dominating because that was diverse indeed!

[Lemnear]

No i'm disgusted by the fact that they let this format be 80% blue for years because of brainstorm, then suddendly TC come out, the format is as blue as it has ever been, only we finally have new decks popping out and it's a problem. Uuh what is this, players have to think? Ban it! Let's have ten more years of cantrip.dec dominating because that was diverse indeed!

The decks ran the same fucking Delver and the same damn cantrip shell just got pure cardadvantage on top of that

[bruizar]

I'm fine with bannings, except first I need to sell mine. I got shafted on foil Mental Missteps in the past, and I don't want to get shafted again. I think people will just exchange it for Dig Through Time in a lot of decks (not all).

PS: I hear Twincast is good card draw nowadays.

Twincast:
UU: Draw three cards, you may also cast this in response to Force of Will, if you do, counter it instead.

Fork can be played in Jund and Imperial Painter, doesn't get Pyroblasted either..

[sjmcc13]

Aaron Forsythe has apparently stated they're discussing the bans of Treasure Cruise for legacy and Jeskay Ascendancy for modern @Pax Australia.
It's not decided yet though.
He also reiterated that they usually don't playtest for eternal.

Did those 2 even need playtesting to see....
Legacy and modern are both formats where the yards can fill up fast, so they should have already known that Delve is a problematic ability that can be broken easily.
People latched on to both to fast for me the believe they were not obvious.
Ascendancy is basically read the card, realize it works well with mana dorks and cantrips, then ask is there anything to increase consistency of going off, and tutors and wishes are both long known methods of increasing consistency. There is enough auto build there that they have no realy excuse for not realizing the card was a potential problem.

Sometimes I think they only play test limited.

[Lord Seth]

If the current MTGO game is any indication, then the meta we're heading for is neither interesting, fun or healthy. Introducing 4x Ancestral Recall to the format was a retarded move. Fuck a metagame where you face ~40% Delver decks, because that's what MODO is right now.

Banning Jetski Ascendancy in Modern wouldn't suprise me, even if it doesn't put up results, because it breaks their T4 rule really, really hard. Hilariously enough, somebody on the SCG Open this week found a build that appearently breaks Jeskai Ascendancy for Standard, too - with significantly less derp and the ability to win even without Ascendancy.

It doesn't break it if it isn't putting up results. People always bring up the turn 4 rule, but they forget an important caveat: It also has to be a "top-tier deck" (their exact words). Decks like Infect or Griselbrand Reanimator break the turn 4 rule a lot, but neither are major decks in the format so they get a pass. Similarly, if Jeskai Ascendancy continues putting up little to no results, it will also get a pass.

As a side note, if they do ban Treasure Cruise, then Jeskai Ascendancy will be weakened anyway. It actually does have considerable reliance on that card to let it keep going when it's comboing off.

[davelin]

The decks ran the same fucking Delver and the same damn cantrip shell just got pure cardadvantage on top of that

Aye to that sir. Not sure what these new decks that are being referred.

[Rizso]

Dualcaster Mage could be a real card to fight both cruise and dig.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Did those 2 even need playtesting to see....
Legacy and modern are both formats where the yards can fill up fast, so they should have already known that Delve is a problematic ability that can be broken easily.
People latched on to both to fast for me the believe they were not obvious.
Ascendancy is basically read the card, realize it works well with mana dorks and cantrips, then ask is there anything to increase consistency of going off, and tutors and wishes are both long known methods of increasing consistency. There is enough auto build there that they have no realy excuse for not realizing the card was a potential problem.

Sometimes I think they only play test limited.

They've stated they do not test for legacy several times

[ubernostrum]

No i'm disgusted by the fact that they let this format be 80% blue for years because of brainstorm, then suddendly TC come out, the format is as blue as it has ever been, only we finally have new decks popping out and it's a problem. Uuh what is this, players have to think? Ban it! Let's have ten more years of cantrip.dec dominating because that was diverse indeed!

The tweeted reports I've seen are all about Modern, not Legacy. And, well, in Modern Treasure Cruise has done a number on the format; U/R Delver and Burn-splash-Cruise represent 21% of decks in Modern top 8s over the past two months, but a whopping 44% over past two weeks.

[Darkenslight]

The tweeted reports I've seen are all about Modern, not Legacy. And, well, in Modern Treasure Cruise has done a number on the format; U/R Delver and Burn-splash-Cruise represent 21% of decks in Modern top 8s over the past two months, but a whopping 44% over past two weeks.

But they're not talking about TC in Modern; they're talking about Jeskai Ascendancy in Modern. Forsythe was explicitly talking about TC in Legacy. Which, IMO, is arguably the wrong card to ban (although the reasonings are arguably correct.)

And for what it's worth, I don't thi9nk the Ascendancy warrants a ban in Modern...yet, because the wincon is unstable.

[Gheizen64]

Aye to that sir. Not sure what these new decks that are being referred.

Dude the last two weeks saw Maverick and Goblin getting T8 after what, years? Plus other hard to see decks like Lands and Tezzeret got both a win and a T8 respectively. We saw freaking Slivers in a T8.
Not to say about decks exploring new win conditions, like Helm + RIP actually being main deckable now, or Delvers deck playing Pyromancers. Red presence in deck hasn't been this high in years i think.

TC being printed condensed blue archetypes into a single, easier to hate shell; aka the dump everything in my hand by T3. And that make cards like Punishing fire which basically kill everything Delver can play, or RIP extremely strong. That and Lifegain.
TC is also actually hateable whereas Brainstorm is not, so the card is already more fair by definition. It's good but let's not pretend it's actually Recall, and not way more like Visions.

The card is right now forcing the meta to change, and that's a beautiful thing. Even if Miracle become the top deck in 3 months from now (which i think it's the best deck right now but w/e), at least we'll see some change from everything is bluetempo.dec

[testing32]

I'm with you Gheizen64. I mean look at this SCG top 8. There were only 5 BS decks instead of the usual 6 or 7. Things are so exciting right now.

Edit: I mean currently on tcdecks of the top 12 decks only 2 don't have BS. How good is that.

[davelin]

Dude the last two weeks saw Maverick and Goblin getting T8 after what, years? Plus other hard to see decks like Lands and Tezzeret got both a win and a T8 respectively. We saw freaking Slivers in a T8.
Not to say about decks exploring new win conditions, like Helm + RIP actually being main deckable now, or Delvers deck playing Pyromancers. Red presence in deck hasn't been this high in years i think.

TC being printed condensed blue archetypes into a single, easier to hate shell; aka the dump everything in my hand by T3. And that make cards like Punishing fire which basically kill everything Delver can play, or RIP extremely strong. That and Lifegain.
TC is also actually hateable whereas Brainstorm is not, so the card is already more fair by definition. It's good but let's not pretend it's actually Recall, and not way more like Visions.

From TCdecks Maverick took a couple of T8 in the last few months with a couple of T16 appearances. Young Pyro has certainly been a viable creature in a Delver shell although probably more so with the dump your hand gameplan that TC encourages.

I think it's interesting that Dredge took the top place this Sunday with additional spots in the top 16. Indirectly it seems like the GY-hate isn't quite out there, instead folks want to play with these tools themselves so perhaps GY-hate is on the way down?

[Dice_Box]

I think an ironic side effect for TC demanding free use of the grave has been that decks that run it are not really paying attention to grave hate because they themselves need the use of the grave. While they can run some of the one shot artifact cards, Dredge is fast enough to get around that.

[H]

From TCdecks Maverick took a couple of T8 in the last few months with a couple of T16 appearances. Young Pyro has certainly been a viable creature in a Delver shell although probably more so with the dump your hand gameplan that TC encourages.

I think it's interesting that Dredge took the top place this Sunday with additional spots in the top 16. Indirectly it seems like the GY-hate isn't quite out there, instead folks want to play with these tools themselves so perhaps GY-hate is on the way down?

I think it speaks also to the known fact that we constantly learn in Vintage about Dredge. When Dredge seems worst, it is at it's best. As in, when people feel Dredge is "hated-out" they hedge on no one playing it and cut hate. The paradigm shifts and Dredge is good. When Dredge becomes good, people play the hate again and we cycle back through. I liked Dredge to a force of nature. It is always present and waiting for people to not be prepared.