There are a lot of DnT players in my meta and every single one of them has said that Tidespout Tyrant is the bane of their existence, if you get a D7 into a TT, they have almost no chance of winning, if they don't have swords for the tyrant, they just lose, and you can force swords if they do have it.
Animate dead has been great for me, being a target for abrupt decay is hardly ever relevant, if its on a griselbrand, you've drawn 7 so the damage is done, similarly with elesh, since their creatures are likely dead. As far as tidespout goes, you can actually save the animate dead as was discussed earlier. If the creature is Iona, you likely named black against the deck anyways.
I don't know what it is, but I've never really had trouble with DnT even though it seems to be considered one of our worst matchups.
I think as long as you play around Karakas and Swords, the matchup vs. D&T should be fine. It can suck game 1 if you don't know what you're up against, and, say, blow your combo on Griselbrand only to pick it back up with Karakas, but that seems to be it. With Tidespout and Ashen Rider both being viable ways to kill your opponent dead, I don't see the issue. Post board, they have access to maybe meekstone, but again, Ashen Rider / Tidespout is just unstoppable in this spot, and Needle can often be GG for Karakas. Thalia can be a pain, but you should be playing your petals out prematurely vs. the deck anyhow, to avoid her being an issue, and you really only end up maybe a turn later than desired because of her. They can't play multiple thalias, and if they're porting you on turn 2 it means they aren't doing something more hateful.Originally Posted by Stryfo
That being said, I haven't really played reanimator, but I'm super interested in the deck and it's the next one I intend to finish.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
I envy you so much. The DnT players are what stopping me from hitting the weekly top 4's. I might have to modify my decklist but the MD Empyrial Archangel is a house against burn and makes the DnT players groan.
So Containment Priest is a thing now. The fact that it has flash is so annoying. lol
What does this mean for Reanimator? It kind of makes me want to run the full set of Thoughtseize to make sure the coast is clear before reanimating. It also warrants another Massacre, I think.
At least it doesn't shut off Show and Tell if it is put in simultaneously with a creature.
Yeah, but any smart person would cast that creature in response to SnT. Then put batterskull into play off SnT. Whoooraayy DnT!
Means the abrupt decay package likely becomes a little more appealing if it isn't already standard =P Massacres work too.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
Means I'm going full play set on main Thoughtseize and side Decay, up from 3 each. I have a single Massacre in the side, will probably go up to 2 if this becomes a thing. I'm going to wait and see how much this is a thing before committing that much sideboard to it. If people just replace their RiP with this guy, then it's not that much different from what we deal with already. If it's side by side, then it's time to adjust.
D&T and Miracles are already tricky match ups anyway. If you godhand them in the first 2 turns, you get there pretty easy if you know what you're doing. But if you misstep or are a turn too slow, Thalia + Rip + SotL + Mindcensor just pile on and then you're dead. Same story with CounterTop plus mana. This is just one more card in a long string of cards we're already adapted too.
This does hurt Dredge and Sneak&Show in ways they aren't used to however, if they start to falter I'd be curious to see what the main crowd starts building sideboards against in that absence.
Abrupt decay looking pretty good now huh?
Anyway, i think that while this card is a real pain in the ass, it only solidifies where the the sideboard wants to be for future events and the gp. While i think that massacre is awesome, i might want another instant speed kill spell that is relatively cheap such as disfigure or muderous cut. I suppose that if mother of runes is active then they will be detrimental compared to massacre, but the applications in other mashups i believe is more important. Disfigure is good against the infinite delver decks, kills deathrite, and is very good v elves. I think that we probably want something like 4 decay and 2 disfigure in the slot that would usually house massacre or a bounce spell. I know for one, that if i am going to continue playing this deck, that i won't feel comfortable in the death and taxes matchup without at least 6 explicit answers to the card hitting the table.
Anyway, what do you guys think, how are you planning on dealing with this card. Do you think Miracles will play it? if so, is there a card better than disfigure for that matchup?
Jake
I don't think this will be as big as it is being made out to be.
The card does very little against the best decks in the format (Delver, Miracles, Storm, fair decks, etc.), and also has some very real anti-synergy with the deck itself. It's just another card that we can both counter easily and go under. What cards will DnT cut from a standard 75 to play this guy? How many can they feasibly play? It's not some kind of four-of all star like Thalia, it's effect is just not good against too many decks.
It is possible that a different deck comes to the floor that could play this card, but there aren't a huge number of decks that can really abuse this card (none come to mind).
Edit: Furthermore, we aren't considered to be one of their problem matchups, neither is Sneak and Show, what problem does this new card solve for them?
...Chain of Vapor? It also answers Leyline, Relic, Crypt, Ooze, etc. I'd much rather them have this than RiP in Miracles, also the 4 Karakas deck really needs more answers to Griselbrand?
They typically only play 3 karakas, and yeah priest is good in a lot of places that aren't specifically reanimator. Dredge, show and tell, a bunch of fringe strategies that create some guys, the card is pretty versatile. While it probably won't see more play than a lot of cards in that slot i.e.. spirit of the lab and all of the other two drops, it will be a presence on the board of these decks. Chain is fine, but again I don't know if i want a bounce spell that isn't specifically great. I think that the deck is generally powerful enough that we no longer really need a blanket answer. I think that we want something that is insane in matchups where we really need hate. Disfigure/ massacre i think does what we want, where we want it. And yeah, I'm not particularly afraid of this card in any matchup that doesn't have vial.
Card is not versatile it is narrow, it dos literally nothing in so many match ups. Thalia and Teeg are versatile, this is more like Cannonist except against Griselbrand decks where they don't really need the help, and playing around it is just playing around yet another hate bear.
With flash. For one white. That is literally impossible to play around without a thoughtsieze effect at many points in the game. Imagine a scenario where your opponent has a vial on two, a cavern on human or just multiple things to deal with. This card is very scary, and yes, is definitely versatile. Go back to casting tendrils friend. :)
RIP is still so much worse for us because it blows away any investment still left in the graveyard. It also cuts a much much much broader swath through the metagame. RIP doesn't need to bash for 2 or be cast EoT to lose us the game in a lot of spots. Abrupt Decay can be too little too late when your best play means you just have to go for it and hope they don't have it.
Interestingly I've played multiple tournaments and not faced 1 D&T yet, but I'm pretty sure it's a bad matchup at the end of the day for us. You can't board out all the legendary or farm-worthy creatures against Karakas/Swords, you can't really afford to fight over Aether Vial, you can't do anything about Cavern of Souls. Another hatebear added to the mix doesn't seem that intimidating to me. Still dies to Massacre, still gets Thoughtseized, still gets Abrupt Decayed, still gets Forced or Dazed without a Vial/Cavern. That's all without changing a card in the various 75's people tend to play.
If you were to play Disfigure would you side it in against UR Delver to slow down their clock? It hits Delver, Pyromancer and can hit Swift Spear.
If I went the U/G/B route for abrupt decay what would the manabase be like?
I currently use
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
My idea based on what I got:
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bayou
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
Maybe because I'm paranoid, I'm sorta tempted to put a basic forest in to make myself wasteland proof.
The threat of Containment Priest doesn't come from its perpetuity, it's from its natural reactionary play style. It's not so much a Rest in Peace is it is a Surgical Extraction, flashed in response to our Reanimate. Once out, it's no more threatening that Grafdigger's Cage, which only shuts off our finisher, but doesn't limit the set up. We're free to Careful Study into Containment Priest, EOT Abrupt Decay and then flash that golden Exhume.
For those preparing their sideboards for D&T, I'd be wary of targeted removal like Disfigure. Decay gets countered by game state with an active mom out, Disfigure and Crippling Fatigue fare no better. Massacre is the better card but much more narrow, offering no help in the Viking Funeral or other Delver lists.
For those running the BUg lists, have you considered a copy of Engineered Explosives as a global check all? When I ran straight UB, I had a copy of Ratchet Bomb, typically to blow at 0 against Delver and Dredge, but sometimes brought it in against Elves, D&T and even Miracles with moderate success. If the future of the deck is 3 colors, EE could provide better coverage than most bounce spells if we pack Abrupt Decay alongside.
You list Polluted Delta twice there. Also when discussing manabase, you should also list how many Petals you're running, since that's also critical in consistently casting Abrupt Decay.
Right now I'm
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp (for art reasons)
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal
If you're light on Petals then a Forest wouldn't be out of line, but I think that would be abundantly cautious. As long as you're fetching properly, losing both your green sources to Wasteland is unlikely.
Thoughtseize won't play around this guy, they can just cast it in response and make us deal with it on board. And it is EXTREMELY narrow, in that all of the decks it's any good against bar elves (Dredge, Reanimator, SnS), are already good matchups for DnT. It doesn't solve anything other than those matchups, which don't need solving, and they already have more versatile tools for winning those matchups and those tools don't interact poorly with vial. If this guy was their absolute best tool against elves, then I can see it getting a few slots, since that's a nightmare matchup for DnT. But elves isn't as scared of this card as we are, since they can still just cast glimpse and win the game, there are better options for that matchup.
@PirateKing, because of how reactionary the card appears, I think it will be easier to beat. I would argue that it is frequently correct to just cast it on turn two, but it becomes much easier to combo + counter on our turn 2 if they try to play it on our turn rather than theirs, and most people will be trying to get us rather than slow us down, which is all DnT really needs against us, some setup time.
Still @Pirateking, I've been using EE in 2 color lists to great effect, all of the important hate occurs on one or two anyways, so going to three colors doesn't change much.
Sorry had a brainfart while typing. 2 Scalding Tarns instead of the 2nd duplicate. I'm running a 2-2 Split of Petals and Daze's, I'm thinking of using more petals though now. I'd have to switch my Bloodstained Mires to Verdant Catacombs to justify the singleton forest but, it's all just theory at this point.
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