[Primer] Elves!

[Shagstaman]

cool ty. congrats again.. I'm super jealous ;)

[Megadeus]

cool ty. congrats again.. I'm super jealous ;)

Would you be Mr. Hess by any chance? I remember three elves players there.

[Shagstaman]

yea, were you the third? =)

[haganbmj]

yea, were you the third? =)

Nah, he just got smashed by me then won out to make top 8 too (Deadguy Ale).
The weird matchups were thanks to our store I think hah. We have a lot of random stuff here and it came out in full force for this event.

[Shagstaman]

Noice! =)

the highlight of my day was casting a sylvan library into my opponent's chains of mephistopheles. Turns out the library only got activated one turn but it won me the game on the spot when I paid 8 life to draw a DRS, fetch, and scooze and my board was literally only a pithing needle and library (no lands, no dudes).

[jamie7keller]

Why are we making such a big thing out of this?

Does it outright kill us? No.
Do we have an answer for it, if needed? Yes.

I don't see the problem.

It matters little, but is still worth being aware of. I usually don't worry about a white deck with only two mana up having a tricky responce to me natural order; now I will be mindful.

Two thoughts:

First: I agree with what was said above that a 4th abrupt decay may be warranted in the side. This is now just one more thing it comes in against, and the list was already long.

Second: Hypothetically, say you are on the draw game two against a deck that is running this. In hand you have bayou, elf, thoughtseize, green sun zenith [and other stuff irrelevent to this question, but assume its good enough to keep the hand]. If they turn one plains, do you turn one thoughtseize to keep them off the priest? or go the normal route and turn one elf? The answer may depend on those other cards in your hand, but usually I would not question this against a grindy white deck. What do you think?

[haganbmj]

Noice! =)

the highlight of my day was casting a sylvan library into my opponent's chains of mephistopheles. Turns out the library only got activated one turn but it won me the game on the spot when I paid 8 life to draw a DRS, fetch, and scooze and my board was literally only a pithing needle and library (no lands, no dudes).

I heard about that. What an awesome sequence of events.

[danyul]

Noice! =)

the highlight of my day was casting a sylvan library into my opponent's chains of mephistopheles. Turns out the library only got activated one turn but it won me the game on the spot when I paid 8 life to draw a DRS, fetch, and scooze and my board was literally only a pithing needle and library (no lands, no dudes).

LOL Legacy is awesome. And that picture is hilarious.

[Golgari4Life]

So I am considering bringing Elves to GP New Jersey, but I had some questions since I am new to the deck and have played it in one event. I have exposure to all different types of decks from Death and Taxes to Reanimator to Maverick to Fish. I played the old school threshold decks back in the day with Mystic Enforcer.

My question has to do with some cards I think would fit in well in Elves and I want to know what veterans with the deck think.

I was going to play the standard elves list but had some thoughts with a lot of the hate and hearing that Elves has a rough matchup with UR Delver. What are people's thoughts on Ezuri, Renegade Leader as a 1 of in the deck? It would go side by side with the Scavenging Ooze, 1-2 Craterhoof, 1 Reclamation Sage, and 1 Packmaster?

How good is Packmaster and in what matchups is it best?

What are thoughts on running white like 1 savannah for Gaddock Teeg in the SB? Also what are thoughts on running more Disfigure SB since I expect a lot of delver. I do also expect a flux of oops all spells types, correct me if I'm wrong about not running Cabal Therapy.

[Echelon]

What are people's thoughts on Ezuri, Renegade Leader as a 1 of in the deck? It would go side by side with the Scavenging Ooze, 1-2 Craterhoof, 1 Reclamation Sage, and 1 Packmaster?

What are thoughts on running white like 1 savannah for Gaddock Teeg in the SB? Also what are thoughts on running more Disfigure SB since I expect a lot of delver. I do also expect a flux of oops all spells types, correct me if I'm wrong about not running Cabal Therapy.

Ezuri seems too slow to me to be able to do what you want him to.

In the case of Gaddock Teeg, I don't know if siding in an x/2 is that useful vs. a deck full of cantrips and 8 counters & 7 or so burn cards to stop it.

Looking at the current meta, any form of fast combo seems to be a good meta-choice at the moment. Since Cabal Therapy is one of our best ways to interfere with those kind of decks, I don't think it wise to skip not run Therapies at this particular moment.

[Duker99]

Since we a feeling a rise in faster combo decks as any thought about removing discard from sideboards and play counters. I currently have 3 cabal and 3 thoughtseize. I'm thinking like 4 swan song and 2 flusterstorms... Thoughts?

[Lemnear]

Since we a feeling a rise in faster combo decks as any thought about removing discard from sideboards and play counters. I currently have 3 cabal and 3 thoughtseize. I'm thinking like 4 swan song and 2 flusterstorms... Thoughts?

Combo loves sculpting hands unmolested, Duress/FoW your counter and win; especially if you splash a color for that

[Zombie]

Fighting a good counter war means you need a lot of blue - either islands for casting stuff or cards to pitch to Force. We can't have either of those. You want more hate, I'd look to more discard, artifacts or a white splash for hatebears. Playing Teeg or Thalia, or even Thorn plays into the basic Elf plan better than holding mana up. IMO the holy grail of combo sideboard plans atm would be figuring out a way to incorporate discard and Teeg but maintain a decent amount of speed. The tensions between NO, Glimpse and Teeg are insane to say the least.

[Shagstaman]

how do we feel about thorn of amethyst? It's an oldie but goodie... and thinking about it, it's a solid card in some fair matchups as well as combo (UR delver, that new control deck ppl were talkin about, and even miracles...just having to pay 1 colorless for a FOW would be good in situations).

Also, the teeg+therapy plan seems kinda nutter butters. turn 2 gsz for teeg and then disposing of him later as previously mentioned seems like a really legit plan. the only thing I don't like is how it turns off gsz...so a lucky/clever opponent could just land a key equipment or enchantment and we just lose on the spot cuz we can't even search up sage.

I know our deck isn't the one for this... but lol meddling mage + teeg is a soft lock vs a lot of decks (mage naming bolt or stp)

[Lemnear]

how do we feel about thorn of amethyst? It's an oldie but goodie... and thinking about it, it's a solid card in some fair matchups as well as combo (UR delver, that new control deck ppl were talkin about, and even miracles...just having to pay 1 colorless for a FOW would be good in situations).

Also, the teeg+therapy plan seems kinda nutter butters. turn 2 gsz for teeg and then disposing of him later as previously mentioned seems like a really legit plan. the only thing I don't like is how it turns off gsz...so a lucky/clever opponent could just land a key equipment or enchantment and we just lose on the spot cuz we can't even search up sage.

I know our deck isn't the one for this... but lol meddling mage + teeg is a soft lock vs a lot of decks (mage naming bolt or stp)

We had Thalia and Thorn for discussion back in the days we played white anyways for Harmonic Sliver or Pridemage, but the problem are the manacosts of 2 which means that your opponent gets up to 2 turns to combo before you can play Thorn. It's a fine card to backup your turn 1 discard, but under that given aspect, there are better options available.

Teeg is crap. Does not stop S&T, is off-color, gets removed by Karakas or Chain of Vapor ... all on top of the beforementioned problem of manacosts and it blocking your tutors.

[Shagstaman]

so on that topic...

does anyone fire off turn 1 discard?

in my experiences, it is almost always better to land a turn 1 duder so your disruption actually matters (since you can follow up with an actual threat of your own). If they turn 2 you on the play or turn 1 you on the draw, tough luck. Does that make sense or am I being too narrow?

obv this applies more to thoughtseize than therapy, because if you miss on the therapy you want to immediately be able to flash back.

[Lemnear]

so on that topic...

does anyone fire off turn 1 discard?

in my experiences, it is almost always better to land a turn 1 duder so your disruption actually matters (since you can follow up with an actual threat of your own). If they turn 2 you on the play or turn 1 you on the draw, tough luck. Does that make sense or am I being too narrow?

obv this applies more to thoughtseize than therapy, because if you miss on the therapy you want to immediately be able to flash back.

You'll bite your ass if you drop a dood and your opponent goes for his/her combo. If you open your game 2 against combo on the play with a discard spell in hand, use it. Giving your opponent 1-2 turns for free just to develop your own board (as the slower combo deck in most cases) is arrogant.

I completely disagree on Therapy. If you make a wise and educated choice with your blind Therapy and you hit NOTHING, your opponent isn't likely able to kill during his next turn anyways, ergo you have enough time to drop an elf or two to flashback the Therapy during your next turn

[Julian23]

That's one of the reasons Birchlore Rangers is so good: it allows you to T1 Discard spell, then play 3 Elves on turn2 and still have the mana for another discard spell if one of your Elves is a Quirion Ranger.

[Shagstaman]

I wish I lived in Germany ;)

thx for the replies.

[jamie7keller]

That's one of the reasons Birchlore Rangers is so good: it allows you to T1 Discard spell, then play 3 Elves on turn2 and still have the mana for another discard spell if one of your Elves is a Quirion Ranger.

I may be thinking about this too hard, but does that make it worth running more birch lore and less heritage Druids, at least in combo heavy metas?

It hurts me to run birchlore over heritage (I love efficiency) , but I can't think of a time I lost a game with birchlore that I would have won with heritage.