[Deck] Dark Depths

[Lio]

I was playtesting Adrieng's version of the deck and I agree with UR Delver matchup. It is favorable, especially the version without Wastelands. Matchup where I do have troubles is Death and Taxes with Spirit of the Labyrinth and Ghost Quarters maindeck. I think I had 1:5 or 1:6 against that deck .. it was abysmal .. so much disruption. Hope people will play good old list with Rishadan Ports. Think about adding 2nd Maze of Ith as you others are testing right now. Any ideas? Although stock version of the deck was much better (~50% or slightly more).

My current sideboard:

3x Ancient Grudge
2x Reclamation Sage (will be 1/1Krosan Grip split)
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
3x Pyroclasm (don't owe 2nd Deluge and Pyroclasm is better against decks like Goblins, UR delver, Elves)
1x Toxic Deluge
3x Ratchet Bomb
1x Thoughtseize (in my opinion better than 4th Duress)

Still I can't get my hands on Tabernacle which I would play otherwise, probably in the spot of 3rd Pyroclasm.

[TLK]

What is the best way to battle Edict effects? Targeted discard on said effects and Needle on Liliana?

[apple713]

What is the best way to battle Edict effects? Targeted discard on said effects and Needle on Liliana?

diabolic edict is the only card you potentially have to worry about... and it rarely gets played. make token eot and move on.

any deck with an edict effect should be an easy win.

[TLK]

Duh I'm not sure why I thought Lili would be an issue. I think Jund runs some Diabolics but I agree that it isn't very common.

[adrieng]

What is the best way to battle Edict effects? Targeted discard on said effects and Needle on Liliana?

liliana is not a problem you make the token eot most of the time and vampire kills planeswalker don't forget that you also have needle
diabolic edict can be discarded and it is not played a lot

Matchup where I do have troubles is Death and Taxes with Spirit of the Labyrinth and Ghost Quarters maindeck.

this version is not the one which see the most of play (japanase version), but yeah I agree it is very hard to beat
though if you add the 2nd toxic deluge in the place of pyroclasme in side and the third reclamation sage (answers spirit and other cards) it will help
Did you play 2/3 match though or just preboard cause after side it gets better.

1x Thoughtseize (in my opinion better than 4th Duress)

As for thoughtseize vs duress I am not sure yet (in the side though in the main duress is better cause there is a lot of red in the meta and you have library)
but seize is better vs show and tell/elf/12 post but worse against elf/tempo red/burn decks after side
I think karakas in side it is a waste slot but I might be wrong especially if you expect the mirror and lot of sneak/show

[Lio]

0:2 preboard, 1:3 (or worse) post board. Reclamation Sage is not as good as I expected here because of the Mother of Runes. Still does its job though.

I do not owe 2nd Deluge (lost it somewhere ). Pyroclasm still handles Elves, delver creatures and the others and is castable under the Blood Moon and one turn earlier (elves, UR delver).

Main reason to play Thoughtseize over 4th Duress in SB is that Thoughtseize can take creatures unlike the Duress. Sometimes all you need is to delay your opponent by stripping Goyf or Pyromancer or Flickerwisp out of their hands. Plus hitting cards like Venser, Snapcaster, Sneak Attack and much, much more, is relevant bonus.

Karakas can cope with Reanimator, SnT, DnT (bouncing Thalia or Brimaz is real deal) and 20/20 avatars toying around. Still not sure if Maze of Ith isn't better choice at the moment.

Btw what is our plan against Blazing Archon and such cards?

[adrieng]

Anyway I wouldn't be worry about japanese death and taxes which sees zero plays or maybe less than one percent of the field, classic death and taxes is an ok matchup and just play 2 deluge.

Btw what is our plan against Blazing Archon and such cards?

It doesn't see any play, you should avoir reanimator to put a creature and you have 8 discards +4 crop on bog +3 reb after side +4 needle on griselbrand.
You still have 2 toxic deluge if you expect such bad card.
Humility/peacekeeper is taken out with bomb @4 but still doesn't see any play recently.

Main reason to play Thoughtseize over 4th Duress in SB is that Thoughtseize can take creatures unlike the Duress. Sometimes all you need is to delay your opponent by stripping Goyf or Pyromancer or Flickerwisp out of their hands. Plus hitting cards like Venser, Snapcaster, Sneak Attack and much, much more, is relevant bonus.

I know the difference between the card but against tempo decks life loss matters specially UR delver ; I leave the duress against death and taxes (and won't take seize); goyf can be mazed out
and bolting ourselves is not what you want you prefer going for the combo plan by taking out fow/stifle and such which delays us.
Against miracle I like having two more life with library it is half a card and duress takes most of their threat (here I leave kozilek) venser is answered by reb/pyro and you have a maze anyway.
Against sneak and twelve post I agree seize is better. For sure main duress is better than main seize the question is for side, here I think both cards are good.

I do not owe 2nd Deluge (lost it somewhere ). Pyroclasm still handles Elves, delver creatures and the others and is castable under the Blood Moon and one turn earlier (elves, UR delver).

I know I have 2 pyroclasme in my side for that reason but 2nd deluge is there for death and taxes/maverick/loam.kotr.decks/food.chain(random decks that sees some play) etc...

Karakas can cope with Reanimator, SnT, DnT (bouncing Thalia or Brimaz is real deal) and 20/20 avatars toying around. Still not sure if Maze of Ith isn't better choice at the moment.

Against reanimator maze does the same thing, I mean it bounces griselbrand but they don't care they just draw their deck and go for tidespout and if yo needle griselbrand you could have stalled with maze to kill with marit lage anyway.

Against death and taxes 2nd maze is better than karakas here cause you can copy it with stage.

It is only better in the mirror and against sneak show. Don't think I would play it for only two decks.

[Lio]

Thanks for the responses. It makes sense, Maze of Ith will replace Karakas.

[TLK]

Is it unnecessary to pack graveyard hate in the side? I'm unfamiliar with the strength/weakness of various matchups, and was wondering if I need to come prepared with some Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, etc. if I expect graveyard-based decks (Dredge, Reanimator, Cruise decks, etc).

[apple713]

Is it unnecessary to pack graveyard hate in the side? I'm unfamiliar with the strength/weakness of various matchups, and was wondering if I need to come prepared with some Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, etc. if I expect graveyard-based decks (Dredge, Reanimator, Cruise decks, etc).

crop rotation into bojuka bog is probably plan A, Plan B would be using map or scrying.

my meta doesn't have lots of grave decks, but dredge really gets shut down if u crop rotate because they often can't ramp up again fast enough to race you. Tabernacle dominates them too. Hexmage can be sacrificed any time to remove their bridges. Reanimator is a different story, but you can use mazes as indicated above.

[TLK]

crop rotation into bojuka bog is probably plan A, Plan B would be using map or scrying.

my meta doesn't have lots of grave decks, but dredge really gets shut down if u crop rotate because they often can't ramp up again fast enough to race you. Tabernacle dominates them too. Hexmage can be sacrificed any time to remove their bridges. Reanimator is a different story, but you can use mazes as indicated above.

Yeah, I have the Bog in the side, and I guess I may not need more than that since I can fetch it at instant speed using Map/Crop Rotation. Hexmage doesn't need a legal target in order to sacrifice it I'm guessing?

Sorry if some/all of my questions have been stupid, but this is my first time playing the combo version of a Depths deck and I want to work out all of my concerns prior to taking it to a tournament to help mitigate mistakes.

[apple713]

Yeah, I have the Bog in the side, and I guess I may not need more than that since I can fetch it at instant speed using Map/Crop Rotation. Hexmage doesn't need a legal target in order to sacrifice it I'm guessing?

Sorry if some/all of my questions have been stupid, but this is my first time playing the combo version of a Depths deck and I want to work out all of my concers prior to taking it to a tournament to help mitigate mistakes.

hexmage ALWAYS needs a legal target, but that target can be ANY permanent without shroud, it does not have to have counters.

I understand, and i wish we could edit the OP so that we can explain a lot of this.

[TLK]

hexmage ALWAYS needs a legal target, but that target can be ANY permanent without shroud, it does not have to have counters.

I understand, and i wish we could edit the OP so that we can explain a lot of this.

Gotcha, that makes perfect sense.

I appreciate all of the responses/feedback. Can't wait for the rest of the cards to come in the mail!

[adrieng]

There is a new card in commader M14 which might be playable in the reclamation sage slot.
Song of the dryad : 2G enchanted permanent is a forest.
So might be good against omni show+sneak show against miracle it also answers jace.
I think the card is ok a one off or two off in sb. It is basically a better beast within.

EDIT : it doesn't work so sage still king

[TLK]

Why do you think it is that the deck hasn't put up any notable results in big tournaments recently? Is it simply because not a lot of people are playing it?

[apple713]

Why do you think it is that the deck hasn't put up any notable results in big tournaments recently? Is it simply because not a lot of people are playing it?

yes. the combo sees play in lands but lands is not the most efficient way to play the deck.

[TLK]

I tried searching on YouTube, but couldn't find much. Are there any videos of the deck in action? I remember watching a few matches when Kennen Haas won with Jund Depths (which was more controlling anyway), but haven't seen much else.

[apple713]

I tried searching on YouTube, but couldn't find much. Are there any videos of the deck in action? I remember watching a few matches when Kennen Haas won with Jund Depths (which was more controlling anyway), but haven't seen much else.

just play with the deck. you probably won't find any one playing this deck.

[TLK]

You're probably right, but I had some downtime at work and was wanting to watch some Magic.

[apple713]

You're probably right, but I had some downtime at work and was wanting to watch some Magic.

the deck is fairly simple to play. just understand all the ways you can make your token and what lands you need to make that happen. you basically just tutor for all your pieces and play defense till you just win.