Monkey_Island, are you finding that two Eldrazi is enough with the playset of Primetime? Because that seems like a failure point to me.
I have been running this configuration of creatures for a long time (since way before TC release) and I have found it to be enough. There are numerous winning lists with 7-8 (+Ulamog) creatures...Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Edit: I need to learn basic mathematics, I have 6 creatures not 7! But still I had good succes with it in my local meta.
Played in my local with the following list, going 2-2:
Round one I play against UG Infect. Game one ends with a 20/20 Indestructible token hitting him, and game two ends with a turn two Show and Tell into Emrakul.
Round two I play against a local Goblins brewer. Game one he double Wastelands me and then gets a Goblin Settler and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker onto the battlefield, leaving me with a Courser of Kruphix and 0 lands in play. Unable to ever catch up in this scenario, I scoop to save time and board in some BEBs to hopefully stop him. Alas, game two ends in a similar fashion. He has the ability to Kiki-Settler me out, but I have Dark Depths and activate it during my turn to make my 20/20 and attack the next turn. He copies a Goblin Matron, gets Stingscourger and attacks me dead.
Round three I play against UR Delver and mulligan and sideboard horribly. I don't know what I was thinking when I was playing this match, but my head wasn't in the right place. I end up getting a Primeval Titan dazed and a second Forced by not playing around his spells properly on my end. Game two I stabilize but have no threats on board, and draw five lands in a row. He is able to pay through a Tabernacle due to also having many lands and a Young Pyromancer gets him there several turns later.
Round four I win against a weird mono blue Stiflenaught/Eater of Days deck. I allow him to resolve his 9/8 and 12/12 and then on my turn get a 20/20, search for and cast Emrakul, and cast a second Primeval Titan in a single turn. Needless to say, I won. The second game goes similarly and we are kind of joking around at this point since we are out of prize contention and he knows he is playing a bad deck for fun. After our match, he takes out Nic Fit and I similarly run him over given that matchup is nigh impossible to lose.
I wanted to test against the local storm player, but everyone wanted to leave so I didn't get the chance. We usually go as a group for food afterwards, and I felt like it might be a bad idea to potentially expose the Tabernacle I'm borrowing to spilled soda or somesuch so I will have to pick up the storm testing today, tomorrow, or Friday.
The biggest takeaway from my games was that the mainboard Force of Wills were awesome but the blue count is probably too low and I need to be able to search for Dark Depths a bit more consistently. This sideboard needs to be rebuilt for this list. Also, Treasure Cruise is really clunky early game. All in all, this leads me back to a list much closer to Dylan Cox's 9th place list.
// Creatures
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Thragtusk
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Trinket Mage
1 Dryad Arbor
// Noncreature Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crop Rotation
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Repeal
2 Flusterstorm
2 Green Sun's Zenith
// "Spell" Lands
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Eye of Ugin
// Mana-producing Lands
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Show and Tell
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Elephant Grass
Dude those glimmerposts are fresh! Pm me a link to where you had them done?Did some testing with winglerw28 in our weekly. We're both running more or less the same list, except he was trying Force of Will in the main while I was trying Flusterstorm, with each of us having the opposite card in the board. I suppose there are merits to both. I tend to favor the "it'll probably resolve" aspect of Flusterstorm, but obviously even something like casting Force of Will on a Delver could very well be relevant.
I think we'd both agree though that running Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage combo in the main pretty much necessitates a return of Expedition Map. Trying to Crop Rotation for them is just...ugh. I could be wrong about this, but I think we're trending away from Treasure Cruise as well. I think it's a lot stronger when we're running a bounce/Candelabra bonanza. Even with our ability to float lots of mana, casting it often feels awkward. I think it might be time to revisit our old friend, Sensei's Divining Top.
Show and Tell still belongs in the 75. I'm just not sure about main or side.
I cannot wait for when Titania is legal. The more I go over possibilities, the more insane it seems to get.
And finally, here are the latest alters I was talking about. Some of you have foils, but mine are prettier :)
Into the North can fetch Dark Depths, and playing snow-basics helps keep it live and flexible in cases where you need to accelerate mana rather than a combo. It sees semi-regular play in Snow-Post (it in fact led to the deck's name), but I'm not entirely sure what you would cut for it because when it is played, people tend to play it as a two-of.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
I been testing the following list. Don't think I will run it for GP NJ unless I can figure out how to beat Burn and UR delver consistently.
Artifact (2)
2 Candelabra of Tawnose
Blue (22)
4 Brainstorm
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Force of Will
4 Ponder
3 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
3 Treasure Cruise
Colorless (2)
1 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Green (7)
3 Crop Rotation
4 Primeval Titan
Lands (27)
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
2 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard (15)
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Elephant Grass
2 Flusterstorm
2 Moment's Peace
3 Swan Song
1 Tabernacle at Pendrel vale
This is what I been running I like it other then I still die to Burn and UR Delver. Outside of Show and Tell early with Force for the price I die to burn. Burn is incredibly sucky to play against if they drop a turn 2 Eidolon raining on your cantrip, Cruise parade. UR delver also has you dead incredibly fast if you don't have some bounce or moment's peace to slow down Swiftspears and getting swarmed by Pyromancer tokens might be time for Tabernacle main deck.
I'm seeing lists with 3 Candels and now more back down to 2. Is the 3rd candel worth it? I only own 2 and not sure I want to spend cash on a 3rd.
@Rock Lee
Elderscale Wurm does work in Elves where you can Natural Order or Zenith for it but how are you finding it to play or you boarding multiples to show and tell in? It has 3 green in the cost also so hard to cast.
@maCHOOga
Death and Taxes was already a bad match up even without the Containment Priest with Spirit of the Labryth stuffing your cantrip cruise plan and Aven Mindcensor stuffing your Titan, Map, Fetch plans.
I been testing something similar but with Ulamog instead of Kozilek and slightly different lands still got a Forest in there and not running Tabernacle.
Treasure Cruise in Post is amazing. You can actually cast it for mana without delving. I also do like main deck Force of Will now that you have the blue cards to support it so your not just a lame duck to combo and Forcing turn 1 delver to see them durdle pondering and brainstorming looking for another threat is great.
My issue with post is I can't beat Burn or RU Delver consistently. Chain of Vapor does help versus RU delver you can bounce their Swiftspear after they pumped it a bunch. 4 Leyline of Sanctity sideboard and mulling alot is not the answer. You still can get Priced for a ton. 4 Show and Tell main with adding 2 Wurmcoil for additional Show and Tell seemed OK but you had some pretty clunky draws which were sub optimal versus other decks and it can also backfire spectacularly when you Show and Tell against sneak and show or Reanimator. Have to try the Dark Depths/Thespian Stage plan see if that helps the burn and ru delver match ups.
BUG Delver is also really rough probably the worst match up. My brother plays it so I get stomped by it alot. Discard + counters + fast clock is hard to deal with.
Has Tabernacle main deck been good? Don't like non mana making lands and without needle to make sure it just doesn't get wastelanded seems risky.
Maybe see you at GP NJ. Was cool meeting you at SCG Edison.
@Sauce
Congrats to Dylan that looks interesting. Dark Depths combo seems good when you have crop rotation and map to search for it.
@Winglerw28
Interesting list but dunno about boltbait Titania. I'd run Thragtusk number two before I run Titania. Seems so risky for bolt bait that also gets owned by Karakas. Letting your Chasm drop to get recured when you can get Priced for a ton at any moment doesn't sounds worth it. Vesuva Chasm, sacrificing old Chasm sure but not paying the upkeep and letting an opening to get Priced just seems not good.
Have Dryad Armor, Tabernacle, Dark Depths and Thespian Stage been worth the extra clunky lands you really don't want in your opening hand? How is assembling the Dark Depths combo with out Map?
@Zotmaster
Does running Dark Depths + Thespian Stage and Tabernacle make some clunky draws where you have 1 or more of those in hand and no colored mana?
Cantrip bounce/candel cruise bonanaza is awesome till your opponent drops a turn 2 Eidilon then your thinking you take 2 just to bounce it and it comes down again and your bonanza stops.
I think you want Force of Will main deck and Flusterstorm is board against Storm and decks with counters. You can Force of Will turn 1 Belcher/Delver/Spy. You can't counter those with a Flusterstorm.
That is some sweet Alters.
You sideboard out Titania against Price of Progress decks anyhow. Also, my most recent post updates the list to be a Top/Map list over a cantrip list due to that reason.
EDIT: Updated my list and am testing it tonight. Update is in my signature if you click the link.
Last edited by winglerw28; 11-05-2014 at 10:49 PM.
I didn't play much lately, but as for now i never had great issues against those decks. Maindeck Moment's Peace, and sideboard Chalice of the Void, Tabernacle, Dark Depths combo + counterspells really shore these matchups for me. I'm not sold on Chain of Vapor, it seems a really bad removal that in corner case situations you may be really scared to cast (i.e. against a UR player while you have a candelabra/titan in play and you really need to untap with it to win).
Just a short note : right now I'm on a list similar to Mr. Fox, playing 2 Trinket Mage and 2 GSZ. For the Burn and UR Delver MU I will try Zuran Orb, Ivory Tower and BLIGHTWIDOW in SB. Played the Blightwidow some time ago and loved for stopping Delver, GG etc... Usually kills one dude and eats a bolt, so most of the time saved me 6 life (plus removing a threat, or just two bolts..).
I like the idea of Blightwidow but isn't Stingerfling Spider strictly better ?
It's different, and interesting. But also 5 mana instead of 4...and about the Widow I love the infect a lot! A Swiftspear would survive a block by Stingerfling (if opponent casts one spell), but would be killed by the Widow because of the counters at the end of the turn ;-)
Blightwidow is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it is better than just playing some Courser of Kruphix. Blocking in the air is relevant against Delver, yes, but often you care more about Young Pyromancer and Monastery Swiftspear. Then again, I do like the idea of shrinking Goyfs.
I'm going to try it in my testing over the second Courser of Kruphix in my list and see how it does.
In the question mark slot in your decklist link, I'd suggest trying Into the North (although as I mentioned above, it's normally a two-of when played). It can search Dark Depths and your basics (If you switch them out with Snow-Basics).
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
The question mark is Titania, and I don't feel Into the North is necessary (or all that good) with the current build. Expedition Map has made the deck much more consitent in finding it, especially backed by the digging power of Courser + Top. I will test Into the North but I was never impressed with it, even in mono green post when I tried that.
Tabernacle maindeck has been amazing. One key to beating delver is to slow down their gameplan. From my various playtesting, they will let all the tokens die in addition to the pyromancer. When it gets stacked up with an elephant grass it makes attacking virtually impossible. Then you just have to live long enough to get a primetime out and not die to burn spells.
I think Burn is just obnoxious and I just plan to dodge it at the GP. Go-go gadget byes! :-)
Actually, for both scenarios, I'm thinking about running Chill sideboard. I think the best way to beat both decks is grind them to a halt with taxing effects or gain boatloads of life. Chill slows down burn and also slows down delver. These decks run very low land counts so I think it's reasonable.
The issue I'm running into is I feel like I'm diluting my deck by oversideboarding for these matchups.
For GPNJ, I think it's worth considering playing Chill in the main as a 2-of, and pushing for a more anti-Red build.
Preboarding works great about X% of the time, where X=the deck's prominence in the metagame. I'm not sure what that number should be to justify preboarding, but I'm pretty sure it should at least be in the 80% range. While URx Delve(r) is the biggest boogeyman in the room, it's not the only one. Here's the current MTG Goldfish statistics (Not sure how useful they are, but it's a starting point). Also, as much as I love taxing effects in MUD-Post, they are only as useful as their follow-up. So, I'd probably play Lodestone Golem since it both taxes and beats together, but considering how much time that cold buy us, even though I'm skeptical I'm sure it'd be an interesting shot, but ultimately probably better in the side. Test it and let us know how it goes.
Edit: here's an interesting statistic I found browsing Mtg Goldfish:12-Post Deck choices of MTGO players.
Last edited by Mockingbird; 11-07-2014 at 09:53 PM.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
Can't wait to finally have a Tabernacle in my grubby little hands for this weekend. I will be at SCG Columbus this Sunday and I will be at GP NJ for the whole weekend next week. Assuming people still enjoy my reports, I'll probably do them for both events like I have in the past...although hopefully with better results than my first SCG open ;)
Hey Rock Lee what's the list your looking at playing next weekend?
Can someone explain all the reasons to play chain of vapor, ive seen a lot of you playing it in your list and I still haven't adopted it yet into my list because Im not fully understanding it.
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