So, now it seems that Lightning Bolt should be a 4-of. UR Delver is everywhere, and killing all their threats with good ol' bolt is gold. I've also been thinking BBE and Liliana of the Veil haven't been so stellar, so I've cut BBE and shaved one lilly. My latest list is the following:
Lands [23]
3 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Badlands
1 Taiga
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
Creatures [14]
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
Spells [22]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard [15]
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Golgari Charm
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Duress
Scavenging Ooze has been overperforming. It's just that good. Once it reaches 4/4, people tend to lose quickly. I haven't missed BBE for now. Reaching four mana has always been a problem against many decks, and taking four off Bob has cost me more games than I'd like to remember.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Love the GSZ, its a neat flex slot in a deck such as this, keep the gas pumping.
So, two libraries out, two chains in, when sideboardjng?
Also im glad im not the only one on the iok train - been messing with it even when we were still getting aroung TNN and it seems even better now, with hymn potentially working backwards vs tom cruise.
Gah itching so much to play again!
The jund colors got so much stuff thats really powerful.
Olivia for example, if ever untap with her against UR then they dont have much cards at all in there 75 to combat her.
Well, depending on the match, I'd see myself keeping them both. Against Miracles, for example, where Lightning Bolt isn't as relevant, resolving Sylvan Library or Chains is great. Don't forget that Sylvan Library has a "may" ability, so you can skip it when you have Chains on the field.Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos
IoK has been great. I almost always target removal, against fair decks. Let Bob do his work.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
If Hymn is "unplayable" according to Reid Duke and people above are saying BBE should be taken out, then essentially all known card advantage Jund utilized is nonexistent in this current format. Is Jund officially dead?? I don't feel GSZ is useful at all due to its lack of CA and speed, but do feel upping Scooze is a must. What other constructive ways can we tweak Jund for the meta without sacrificing Hymn or BBE?
I'm really upset those delve cards are blue and completely ignore the "card advantage" style of play which is one of magics fair decks signature feature.
Hymn is still playable. It's sided out against the noncombo matches but yeah I hesitate now casting it. I don't the rationale of cutting BBE as well. Jund is in a bad spot, the most popular deck at the moment is a burn variant which we are stoft to. Cutting Hymn and BBE makes it sound like a neutered modern version of Jund.
The irony of this all is that Maverick is making a comeback, a deck when Jund was popular was on the decline.
I think that Maverick is in a good spot with the BG/x being hated out of the format to a new extent. I wish we could just jam Phyrexian Obliterator like the Junds of Modern did when Wild Nacatl was made legal again. Kitchen Finks seems good too, but I don't know about doing things like that. As you said, we don't want to be a crappy Modern version of something that was once pure and streamlined. Bloodbraid Elf is so good because it brings a level of game against decks like Miracles while also being good against aggro.
It might be worth running Carpet of Flowers as acceleration. Reasonably, all their cards in UR are worse than everyone else's, they're just fast and can Cruise. If we can actually drop Goyfs and such out of Daze range, we are the better deck...
-Matt
I havent really seen any maverick aroudn though. There was one listed in SCG this week that sounded more like… green and taxes?
I've noticed a few things that I have questions and/or comments about.
We have definitely decided that we want 4x Lightning Bolts. I agree 150%. But, in every single list I have seen, no matter where I have seen it, we always play 3x Punishing Fire's. I'm curious as to why this is? If PF's kill Delvers along with a large amount of other critters that are a pain in the ass, why then are we not playing 4? It would mean we would have more available to use without having to give our opponent the life to gain the card back from the gy as well as leave our bolts available to strike down newer threats, like a grown Taylor Swiftspear, for instance.
My next question/comment would be instead of playing Edict main like many lists have been, there has been question raised of playing Jund Charm sb. I find this card to be unbelievably useful in so many matchups. It destroys pyromancer and all of her friends. Kills Taylor before she gets out of control, swipes Delver, great in the mirror, can easily wreck an elves players day... I could go on. Did I mention it is a wonderful way to clear a gy against this Treasure Cruise/Dig everyone is creeped out by? Oh, and reanimator won't like it much when the charm eats their yard either. There are the problems of course of timing the play of the -2 to creatures so you don't wipe out your entire board and leave yourself dry or having the card dead in hand without the mana to play it. But, I've had taiga in since I started playing this deck last year, so I rarely have tri-color mana issues. So, 1-2 Jund Charm main? I may give it a major thought or even a try for this GP.
Another card that nobody has mentioned at all that is kind of odd is Dimir Machinations. This card allows you to look at the top three cards of their library and exile any number of them. It also has a transmute for 1BB. If we play Jund Charm, Maelstrom Pulses, along with Liliana we could not only remove what they brainstormed for or topped for or pondered for if needed, but, if that's not necessary, we could transmute into that needed charm, pulse or Lily or other three costing thing I can't think of right now lol. Anyway, so yeah. That idea. I might be crazy, but, I really like the idea of messing up their setup of brainstorm or whatever.
Also what if we just take out BBE and play all Scooze? Don't yell at me. I think we should tho. And last but not least...
Hero's Downfall. Why do we not play this card in legacy? Is it too slow? Abrupt Decay doesn't hit Jace and he's a jerk. Maelstrom Pulse hits Jace but at Sorcery speed but for multiple colors, sure, it kills more than just creatures and pws. Idk. Just another random thought. Okay, I have to go pack for this drive to NJ. Let me know what you guys think so I can finalize my list. Good luck to everyone going. Someone top 8 this thing!
I still don't understand why people are afraid of Delver. They don't even run Mongoose anymore, which is by far the worst nightmare.
They are not burn. They run creatures, right into a wall of removal. Yes, they can get broken hands that will overwhelm us, that can happen. But overall, they run into a (re-occuring) wall of removal with their threats.
Even if they chain Treasure Cruises, as I said before, it won't likely matter if we are at solid life. We will kill their threat, leaving them with land and cantrips. When they deploy another threat, we have another kill.
One of the big issues with Delver before was them having a creature and us drawing discard late game. Meh.
Also, to paraphrase the Starks, all I keep hearing is "Combo Winter is coming" again... and yet all combo (except Elves) seems to get less and less popular (a side-effect of Delver decks coming out en force.
I really don't think Jund is in a worse position with a few changes. One is, as Matt opined, the removal of Hymn to Tourach in favor of Thoughtseize. We care about a few specific cards more than "cards", and we can tailor the sideboard to fight Combo anyway.
I agree with Razvan. As the most relevant part of this thread right now is what to expect at the GP, I think we shouldn't be too afraid of Delver. Sacrificing our CA in Hymn for essentially one or two types of decks is pretty ludicrous when we'll most likely be running into Burn, Maverick, DnT, Affinity, Infect or other "cheaper" decks at the GP. Less we forget how expensive blue is to play in Type I.
Viva la Hymn! No way I'm cutting dat good good. GL at GP NJ
Did anyone see the bbd vs cvm live? UWR-stoneblade vs punishing Jund. News in Punishing fire and Liliana is still very good :P
BBD cast 3 cruises on the same turn and still losses! Can just image what a card like chains of meph in the 75 would give the extra power to the discard suit in the deck.
This is the list I intend to play tomorrow at GP NJ. I brought it to a LGS Event for a foil Liliana of the Veil plus pay out. I split first and second out of 26 people. It was 3 am and I was to tired to go on for another round.
Creatures (15)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells (22)
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Sylvan Library
Lands (23)
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard (15)
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Golgari Charm
1 Jund Charm
2 Choke
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Ancient Grudge
Round one played U/G Infect
Lost 0-2
Just didn't really see the cards I needed when I needed them. Wasteland was never there for the killing blow from inkmoth.
Round two played Storm
Won 2-0
Everything went perfectly for me, him not so much.
Round three played R/W Painter's Servant
Won 2-0
Game 1 I just landed a fat tarmogoyf and he couldn't land a painter to blast it.
Game 2 I landed a turn 2 Liliana making him sac his Painter, which he had the win on his turn 3, and surgically extracted it. He scooped in response.
Round four played against U/R Delver
Won 2-1
Game 1 I didn't let a single creature stick.
Game 2 I punted because I missed 1 point of damage
Game 3 I landed a volcanic fallout and then landed a fat tarmogoyf and he had no way of removing it.
Round five played against Tin Fins
Drew 1-1-1
Game 1 he whooped my ass
Game 2 I landed a turn 1 grafdiggers cage and he scooped
Game 3 we realized we could draw into top and chose that option
Top 8 Played U/R Delver
Won 2-0
Had turn 1 DRS, turn 2 Lili, Turn 3 Goyf with removal backup both games and he just couldn't handle it.
Top 4 Played against Merfolk
Won 2-1
Game 1 I punted by missing 1 dmg with punishing fire.
Game 2 He didn't see a vial or a second land.
Game 3 I pulsed his vials, wasted his cavern, and jund charmed his board before he got more than 1 lord out and he fell too far behind.
Top 2 matched against U/W/r Miracles and we drew. I feel like miracles is a favorable match up.
I played jund without punishing fire for a few weeks, but punishing fire is just too good to not play. It literally wins games, and destroys any delver deck single handedly. Since U/R is rampant right now, I feel confident about taking this deck to GP NJ.
So..
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html
7-0-1
Jund
Arya Roohi
701st Place at Grand Prix on 11/15/2014
Legacy
Person finished 11-3-1 apparently.
Creatures (15)
2 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (23)
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
Spells (19)
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
1 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Choke
1 Sylvan Library
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
This seems to go sort of with what weve been talking about.. more Scooze, more Chains, less Hymn.. less BBE and LILY.. More IOK
Also double Toxic Deluge, seems fun!
I was thinking about running 2 Deluge maindeck, similar to how Shardless BUG started running it.
Plus, BBE into deluge, wipe the board, then attack in for 3 seems just fine.
-Matt
That does sound pretty bonkers
This thought came up while I was playing the Modern version of Jund post DRS ban. I'm probably going to commit some heresy for saying this but, has the thought of reducing how much Jund hurts itself cross anyone's mind at alll? I thought of cutting off a single dark confidant as it's a card I like having but I never ran two on the field at once. I pondered (lol blue card) at the thought of using a MD Scooze or trying goblin rabblemaster.
BBE into a sweeper sounds nice, though in my mind it be things like Anger of the Gods or Volcanic Fallout. I did do a toxic deluge for 15 once to get rid of an emakrul that allowed me to swing for lethal the next turn, but I dunno if I'd run that card still. I'd rather have Chainer's Edict or the likes.
Well, tonight at my LGS I played 3 bobs, 2 BBE and 2 Scavenging Ooze. Went 3-1, only losing to UR Delver in the last round due to quite unlucky draws, even the other player admitted it (9 lands G1 and 2 lands G2 and didn't see a single SB card). I beat Sneak and Show, NO Maverik and DnT in the other rounds.
My list was:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Dark Confidant
2 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to tourach
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
SB
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Chains of Mephistopholes
3 Pyroblast
1 Umezawas Jitte
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Jund Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Duress
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