Well against SnS im boarding in 11 I think thats not right
Nah. Against them you want discard and needles in, with a Recla Sage to blow up Leyline.Originally Posted by jim111589
Storm, discard + ooze
11 is pretty much Miracles only and even then it's probably very excessive. I want to test Blastoderm's plan because it seems interesting.
One second, maybe my experience is different from everyone else, but isn't this matchup fine already? I don't think we are as far as "needing outs against Stoneblade", you just have to not walk into postboard sweepers, have an answer to jitte and from there you can grind them out or NO their face off.
So what's the consensus of running Sage main deck? I've since thinking about it cut the wurm, added a 20th land as Ross suggested, added the 4th Natural order to the main. I have cut ooze to the SB, but am not sure if I should keep ruric main or cut it to the SB?
I also debating running the 4th druid. So I decided to play a pretty stock 60.
Thoughts?
All of the midrange cards were added to the MD as a result of metagame shifts, it just depends where you are playing and what you expect. Fire up the search thread function to find out why they were originally added. I think the wider the field the more wombo combo we go, against rando opponent you just need the deck to function like a clean machine and deliver the same thing everytime G1.
I also started running the no bullets, stream-lined MD but instead of 10 fetches, i've been experimenting with 8 fetches with 1 pendelhaven and 1 boseiju. Now I know the boseiju is just being cute and I might cut it for the 9th fetch but pendelhaven has been doing some serious work. Opinions?
Pendelhaven is nice card. But without crop rotation (some surprive block,avoid some removal spell..) there is no reason to play it. Its potentionaly +1damage and keep opponents forkbolt less effective. But opponent know about it, you have to save one mana for protection and you can't combo with quirion ranger -!it's not a forest and thats really annoying-example cradle+ pendelhaven on board... and can't be protect against Wasteland. This disadvantages drive me to cut Pendelhaven out.
regards
Nargo
Last edited by Nargoron; 11-13-2014 at 02:32 PM.
Boseiju also takes up a spell slot rather than a land slot, since it's useless on turn 1. The only cards it can help us cast are Elvish Visionary and Natural Order and in the case of the Visionary it just works like the worlds' worst Forest.
To reliably run it, you'll need to run 3 to 4 Crop Rotations to support it and I honestly can't see what I could cut to make that kind of space (I've tried). The closest I've come is to drop all Cradles and an shave off an Arbor (since all of those basically are spells as well and you still keep draw engines intact), but that makes you incredibly dependant on Natural Order rather than being able to hardcast/GSZ for the kill and ensures that the few lands you do have fall prey to Wasteland since your opponent doesn't have to use those to kill off Cradles anymore.
When applying this to the Ouch-you-stepped-on-my-dick standard (stock list absolutely not taken from SCG primer *cough*), you'd end up with the following:
Creatures (29)
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Dryad Arbor
Lands (15)
2 Forest
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Spells (16)
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
4 Crop Rotation
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Worldspine Wurm
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Progenitus
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
So... Yeah. Our gameplan pretty much changes to "Gather a few merry men, Rotate to a Boseiju and NO FTW". Glimpse still works just as well, but it's a bit harder to gather the 4 mana needed to cast NO and have enough men able to attack at the same time. On the upside, you can use excess Crop Rotations to feed both DRS' mana and lifeloss abilities and to drain your library from land (Rotate to fetch to land) as much as possible, improving our other draws a little bit or as a Wasteland-counter. Coincidentally, it opens up some nice SB options.
Thoughts, anyone?
Attaching my name to any list with 0 Cradles is insulting at best. I understand what you're trying to get at but come on. I've been exalting Cradle as the reason to play this deck for over 3 years.
No Excuses, Play Like a Champion
I'm only stating where the stock list I used came from. Read - "applying this to", as in "uses this as a base to build off of".
But that's fine, I'll rephrase that. How dare I say your work serves as a fine base to build upon! The gall, the unmitigated gall!
There, better?
I was testing tonight in New Jersey and I have decided to adopt my old build which ran Ruric and ooze maindeck. I played against a very good delver player and everytime Ruric resolved I won. Same goes for the UWR Stoneblade matchup, and Freylise according to several good legacy players there is amazing. They like it and also agreed with me running the golgari charm in the SB. One of the new pieces of tech I picked up from a European player who was also there was Sword of Fire and Ice. Overall I am happy with the list I've been testing and I've cut Worldspine Wurm, and discard because I don't expect to win the mirror using discard, also ANT will be present but I don't think Elves is a deck that needs 6 discard spells unless its a combo heavy meta. If it ends up being combo heavy I'll regret it but I also talked with several legacy veterans and current players and we agree Worldspine Wurm is just too narrow of a card to play and only does something against 1 deck; Sneak and Show which I don't expect large numbers of.
If anyone wants to correct me fine, but Ruric has earned his place in the main deck. Surprisingly my only losses tonight were to a D&T player. I think that had to be the hardest matchup for me. I don't agree with Death and Taxes being an amazing matchup anymore since Revoker and Spirit of the Labyrinth is around.
I lol'd. Hard. And that's all I'm going to say about this. OMG, lol.
@Lemnear: Can you please take this one? I just want to watch the fireworks.
Last edited by Echelon; 11-14-2014 at 08:29 AM.
Could you explain your reasoning more than cast card A --> GG from opponent?
Did you cut discard entirely? That seems insane. Especially since you are happy with Ruric main but no discard, when those cards are primarily for the same matchups. Cutting worldspine wurm is fine though. D&T to me always felt like a bit of a crapshoot based on the random hatebears they draw, but you're generally just going to roll them.
Anyway, good luck at NJ.
Edit:
I always try to be nice, but I'm a bit scared of what will happen with this.
Ok, fellas, I'll make this quick;
This shit's ruin threads faster than IBA did;
I sure know what Revoker on Symbiote does not suck;
But sad fact is: Craterhoof and Cradle don't give a fuck;
Adding Spirit to the field to block Glimpse is ok, man;
Thinking that Revoker and Spirit win despite of Sage? You've got a problem!;
Dood, you're whole gameplan goes whack;
If Sage + Symbiote kill your Revoker, Spirit, Vial and Equipment back to back;
These cards may win a game, but overall it won't went well;
Sage, Zenith and Decay make this matchup a living hell;
Most likely you'll see the bloated bodies of that creatures dead and shattered in the 'yard;
This is Lemnear rapping - tearing the arguments apart!;
These kind of shallow thinking makes me sick, but I'm better with the flu;
Maybe you should let Julian and Dan do the card evaluation for you?;
Don't drop bold lines - we got the mathematic;
This pilot of Elves and storm is a true rap addict;
Take that dope rhyme insight and just go back home;
Tell Golgari4Life he just got powned!
Last edited by Lemnear; 11-14-2014 at 10:37 AM.
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Grab a napkin homie, you just got served!
Fo' shizzle!
There's going to be a flow of terrible comments just to get raps going now.
That post was just for your entertainment, gentlemen. The whole dissing was obviously not meant to be taken serious, but just an art-element for explaining why I don't see 2cc Artifacts/Enchantments as a problem for the stock 75
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LOL.
From now on, I think Lemnear's criticisms should only be delivered in rap battle form.
All in favor?
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
*nods*
All in favor?
You guys just did not expect that kind of response, did you? XD
It's actually pretty fun if you listen to a beat and rap it yourself over and over in the office ... LAWL.
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