[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Svknoe]

I have played that deck a bit too, I think that Caleb Durward posted a list on cfb once. I think it's good. I also think that Force is great versus combo. Force alone is not enough, of course. I think that the card is definitely worth it against other combo decks than the turn 1 decks. I have, for instance, liked it against Sneak and Show and ANT.

[Cliq]

I have played that deck a bit too, I think that Caleb Durward posted a list on cfb once. I think it's good. I also think that Force is great versus combo. Force alone is not enough, of course. I think that the card is definitely worth it against other combo decks than the turn 1 decks. I have, for instance, liked it against Sneak and Show and ANT.

Yeah, that was my starting point. I swapped Cruise for DTT and dropped the number to two (three could be correct) and made some other changes, but the core of the list is the same. Deck feels very favored vs most of the decks in the meta, and the bad matchups (miracles, storm) are more like 45/55, which is a good place to be.

[Ralf]

For those who are going to play an Abzan list for the GP, here are some advices as I played Abzan Fit twice in sanctioned events the last couple of weeks to different avenues and different success (4-0-1) and (2-4-0).
The last counterperformance was mostly due to keeping bad hands & bad choices in term of sideboarding strategies as all my matches were very very close. I won 2/1 and lost 2/1 each time (6 rounds).

Not that I take a lot of pleasure for banging on wide opened doors, but a quick reminder and some general guidelines, feeling, advice, might interest some of you.

As for general statements (and oh God, I often laught at video coverage about how loose some opening hands are kept, I am no better than anyone...):

1) Aggressive mulligans are still a thing (pressure, fatigue etc...). And I really mean it while writting this. DON'T SNAP KEEP LOOSE OPENING HANDS or you will be punished as I was.
2) Keep at least 4 discard spells G2 & G3 against delver deck (no matter if it is UR, Canadian, BUG aggro, etc....)
3) Stay focus & play tight.

As for a general sideboard guidelines (which could be replicated for most Abzan lists I saw in this thread), here is mine:


2 Chains of Mephistopheles

A lot of decks are very "high" on "draw effects". Shall we join them ? Nop, I prefer to be an annoyance.
Even thought Chains puts less constraint on blue control decks (miracle) than choke, it has a far broader impact on the meta.
Choke cannot be really sided in against Delver (except BUG which is a bit slower than its other sexfriends mostly because it does not have "reach" save DRS) because it is too slow. That is why, I chose not to play choke at all.

Obviously, Chains comes in and Sylvan library comes out. But I won't blame anyone for keeping both. Landing a chains after a sylvan does hurt you a bit but at least you saw that coming (meaning before playing chains you make sure you get the full value of library). The other way round (playing chains, drawing next library to name it) is bad as you have a dead card in hands, but I guess it is a price to pay for keeping them both in...Still recycling exists, but you'll have to wait for a Liliana to join the party !


2 Thoughtseize

Disruption, disruption and a beatstick (even better if the beatstick is a hatebear at the same time) is all what you need against combo decks. If you happen to meet one, just remember that keeping a hand without any disruption is begging for a nasty spank. Don't oblige your opponent...

If you are not confidant with mulliganing non interactive hands, you could up the discard spells to 3 or 4 using 1 or 2 additional duress. For those statistical monkeys (which I belong to...) here are some numbers which might help you making an appropriate choice:
- 8 discard spells -> odds are 65 % to have 1 in your 7-opening hand and 28 % to see 2 discard spells by turn 3
- 9 discard spells -> odds are 70 % to have 1 in your 7-opening hand and 30 % to see 2 discard spells by turn 3
- 10 discard spells -> odds are 74 % to have 1 in your 7-opening hand and 32 % to see 3 discard spells by turn 3

If you feel you'll need 2 disruptions to shut down your combo opponent, 10 is the number to be reached. Almost a third of games you play, you'll get to see another discard spell within the first three turns.
If you feel confidant or feel that as cabal therapy can be flashbacked and you are a master on blind calling (always striking), then 8 is the way to go.


1 Dryad Militant

Well, I have already stated why this little angry man should be a 1-of in your sideboard. Yes, you could be playing Relic of progenitus, Spell bomb but you will likely be impacted by opponent's hate against artifact. And, oh why your opponent should be siding in artifact hate ? SFM & friends, you said it. Null rod is still a thing and not only in vintage.

Not to mention that not only 2 Relic/Spell bomb is not 5 virtual Dryad thanks to GSZ but also by playing 1 Dryad you get another sideboard space for another card. Sweet? Yes, it is.

If you don't want to play Dryad, the next best option, in my humble opinion, is surgical extraction or extirpate. I won't argue about which one is better. But yet, I have lost twice because my surgical extraction was countered. I've yet to lose because my extirpate is not a surgical extraction. Guess what, the choice is yours.


2 Liliana of the Veil

Liliana will likely be sided in against a lot of deck, be it control, midrange, tempo and even combo ones. The only matches were she does not shine is against red ones (and swarm strategies). If you are not playing her main, be sure to have at least 2/3 copies in your sideboard. Generally, she takes the place of SFM (except against Tempo decks). The reason behind this particular choice is that you'll play a longer game with her in the deck, an attrition war. Fetching an equipment in the very early stage is begging for getting it destroyed/discarded before getting any value of it. Basically, you want your opponent to be hellbent and you to have enough mana to play an equipment, equip it and attack.


1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

This one is a pet card of mine, each time I get to play with B/W (deadguy, pikula, Abzan etc...), I put him either MD or in the side. It can easily be Liliana n°3 (which I suggest you to go for it, at least in a GP, where S&T will be there). I like him a lot because, he is a trump card in mirror control matches including walkers on both side. Not to mention that I got to use his ultimate during a sanctioned event and won a nightmare matchup (MUD) and this one could be one of the ones I could talk about to my grandchildren...If you need something "epic" somewhere in your deck, ballz on him !


2 Golgari charm or 1/1 Engineered plague

I hate that card, but in the current meta, it fullfils several interesting roles.
a) good against tribal deck (Elves to name it), swarm strategies and collateral damage to TNN
b) kills enchantment/enchantment-creature (library, counterbalance, leylines of any sort, sneak attack, eidolon, sulfuric vortex etc...)
c) regenerate your dudes (happened once and only once since I play the card, but I did win thanks to that)


2 Ethersworn Canonist

Main hatebear against deck that are happy to very happy to be playing more than 1 spell a turn. It is a "must" for keeping games at your slow path.


2 Pithing Needle

You should have a good reason to not play at least 2 pithing in your deck, because you'll never know what you are going to cope with. Charbelcher? You name it.
Food chain? at least, you shut down the red god
Sneak? Top? Inkmoth? Thespian's stage combo? Eye of Ugin?


1 "What have you"

The last slot could be used for your fearest fear. Could this be a deck, a guy, or just a crazy feeling that today you DON'T want to lose to this or this kind of deck. Or, this could simply be your lucky card.
Among rational choices, here a quick list of interesting and crazy options:
- Krosan grip -> where split second is relevant
- Discard spell/surgical effect (duress, inquisition of Kozilek, Cranial extraction)
- Another equipment (if you only play 2 in the main deck)
- Another gravehate
- Karakas (if you are afraid of S&T, reanimator)
- Cataclysm/Choke/Tsunami/Armageddon (my preference is cataclysm but against such a blue meta choke is the better choice)
- Another sweeper (Toxic deluge, Pernicious deed)
- Another spot removal (darkblast, STP, Council's Judgment)
- Another beater (Baneslayer, Grave Titan, Kalonian Hydra, Pack Rat)
- Another hatebear (Gaddock, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Thalia, Containment priest)
- Another life gainer (Finks, Baloth, Thragtusk, Bow of Nylea)
- A Secret Tech because you are high on shenanigans (Notion thief because "fuck the drawing party", Mindbreak trap because "fuck ANT & TES & any storm strategy", wirewood symbiot because you play DRS & Reclamation Sage, Empty the Pits because you wanna show the world that Nic Fit can delve like a champion too... )


Guidelines for common & expected matchups and few tips to avoid.

I'm just an average player but I do like trying to play competitive.
I won't speak much about G1, rather about G2 & G3.

Opening hands:

1) G1, don't keep hands with 2 or more big dudes, Mulligan or you must have a GOOD reason not to.
2) G2 & G3, against combo, any discard spell is almost mandatory, 2 heatebears are also good. If not, Mulligan.
3) G1, G2, G3, If there is no obvious "game plan", think about mulliganing

Tempo decks

1) Play tight G1. Turn around soft counters when needed (especially when your hand was keepable but still on the slow trend)
2) G2 & G3, respect if you are on the draw or play. If on the play, play a bit more agressive, don't turn around Daze. The other way round, if you are on the draw.
3) G2 & G3, keep 4 discard spells main deck. Resolving your winning key spell (90% = GSZ) is a matter of life or death.

Special focus on UR Delver.

I read some incorrect information.
After the first explorer trigger, they are becoming really dangerous as their deck is not far from only containing few remaining fetchlands and business, cantrip spells.
1) From this very point, expect a TC every 2 turns or one and a half turn.
2) Assume that once at 5-6 lands in play, each TC is 2,5-3 business spells (generally 2 blue cards & 1 red).
3) Their main goal will be land a threat & to scuplt their hands with 4 to 6 bolt effects (bolt, chain lightning, forked bolt) and wait for you to be in the 10 - 12 life range to unload them in one shot.
4) Once the threat has landed, be sure they'll dig for FOW every turn.
5) Assume they always have artifact hate in hands or ways to dig for it (sometime the blast one, sometime null rod).

In this configuration, Swiftblade is a nightmare. You'll need to chump block every turn to avoid taking 4-5 damages (chaining cantrips until they run out of mana, every turn). If you run out of creatures or don't have a decay before dropping to 12, you are dead. And you will, eventually, run out of creatures, because TC gives them the opportunity to refill their hand with FOW + a card to pitch to it (or at least ways to dig for it, every turn through cantrips).
A competent UR Delver will then just chain "FOW" every 1 or 2 turns your spell that matters and mass is said.

To fight back:

1) Keep 4 discard spells in your deck and depending on the game state & what you are trying to resolve, either go for the FOW or for Bolts because these are the two spells they try to stack in their hands.

2) Equipment should stay in hands until you can safely play, equip and attack in the same turn. Better to wait for a tapped out scenario. If not you have just given them another bolt to your face.

3) Evaluate the threats properly => Early game Delver > Swift. 5 lands later, Swift > Delver

4) Count spell played, every turn, triggering Swift. If you have too (missed trigger for Swift), be a dick.

Unfortunately, if you don't find a quick way to interact with their graveyard (past T4) or their cantrips + TC. Start praying.


Control decks

1) Play tight. Remember to avoid 2 for 1 giving virtual card advantage to your opponent.
2) Play a threat by a threat or one pb by one pb.
3) Post board Liliana must come in.

Special focus on Miracle

1) Avoid ramping with Explorer (easy with a 4 DRS/2 Vet config.) 90 % of the time it should stay a 1/1 attacking every turn...
2) Let them waste their first STP on DRS or SFM.
3) Play your creature, 1 by 1
4) Be sure to fetch equipment in this order SOFAI > Jitte => Batterskull. Try to land an equipment even if no creature is on the field on your side.
5) Use green fetch wisely. Don't crack them too hastily. Remember EOT -> fetch dryad. Your turn , equip dryad & attack will be 50 % of your victories.
6) The first GSZ following the first STP of the miracle player must be for Gaddock if you play it MD. You want that to happen before the 4th land of the miracle player. They 'll have to spend some ressources to find another STP. This is a very good move for you because you want them to use their fetch, their cantrips to find that STP. The more, the better.
7) If a DRS or an Ooze stick the board, go for STP, Council's Judgment then brainstorm while targetting his graveyard. You want to lessen at all cost the impact of SCM shenanigans.
8) Use Abrupt Decay, wisely. It could be fine to keep it for the lethal attack (see below) rather than spending it on a counterbalance -> Use reclamation sage, instead.
9) If you smell a dirty miracle with top in play, be sure the miracle player will play it:
- either on your attaque phase
- or at your EOT.
If you have a decay in hand & want to "gain" an attack turn (which could be lethal) -> Spend your decay on their top, at their end of turn. As they have already drawn a card for the turn, there will be no miracle trigger (they will likely rearrange the top card of their library before drawing) and they won't be able to terminus or entreat you during your turn.
This small trick won me a good share amount of games.


Hope some of you will find food for thoughts in those guidelines.
Don't hesitate to shoot some questions if you have any or if you want other focus on other matchups.

[Svknoe]

Yeah, that was my starting point. I swapped Cruise for DTT and dropped the number to two (three could be correct) and made some other changes, but the core of the list is the same. Deck feels very favored vs most of the decks in the meta, and the bad matchups (miracles, storm) are more like 45/55, which is a good place to be.

Nice. I have played 4 Dig in UWR control a lot recently, so I would very much like to try Dig in BUG Nic Fit as well. Is 4 too much? How do you find the important UR Delver match up? Do you have a list?

[Cliq]

Nice. I have played 4 Dig in UWR control a lot recently, so I would very much like to try Dig in BUG Nic Fit as well. Is 4 too much? How do you find the important UR Delver match up? Do you have a list?

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Baleful Strix
2 Bayou
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Forest
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Island
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Notion Thief
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Polluted Delta
2 Ponder
2 Swamp
1 Thragtusk
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Veteran Explorer

Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Envelop
2 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize
1 Thragtusk
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

I'd recommend Flusterstorm over Arcane Lab in the sideboard, if you have it, and the Notion Thief could easily be another Dig, another Thragtusk, or something like Clique.

4 is too much. To enable that, I think you'd need to add more cheap spot removal (disfigure, etc). 3 could be ok, but I've liked two, just because you already end up with dead cards in most opening hands. U/R feels favored, but if they get one of those hands where they have a 8/9 Swiftspear on turn 3 and you don't have Decay you'll probably lose. Abrupt Decay is very good against them, as is deed if you manage to ramp. Glen Elendra shuts them off from cruising and can kill the delver if needed, although she often just eats a bolt or two (which is also fine).

[Svknoe]

Thanks. :)

[Arianrhod]

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Dualcaster Mage
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primeval Titan

4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
2 Thoughtseize

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Bolt

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
4 Badlands
4 Bayou
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

SB:
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Slaughter Games
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm

Barring a last-minute revelation, this is my list for the event.

I decided I wanted to hedge a little bit more against random.dec because I sadly have no byes -- that means a 2nd Obstinate Baloth over the Thrunfather. Thrun goes to the sideboard to usurp the position of the 1st Pyroblast/3rd REB, which I wasn't horribly impressed by.

I'm still not looking forward to playing against burn, but I have a little bit more now, at least.

I elected to stick with the pair of Bolts maindeck for a couple of reasons.

Magma Jet's scry is really nice, but 2-mana 2-damage is pretty inefficient, and if I'm playing spot removal, I want it to be efficient.

I actively considered Sudden Shock for about 10 minutes. There's a couple of issues here. Infect is basically gone from the metagame as a result of Taylor and Cruise. While the split second is nice, it also loses efficiency by being a 2-mana 2-damage. True, this can merc Swiftspears and Delvers quite nicely. Bolt has a couple of advantages, though.

Bolt is a 1-mana 3-damage spell. It is the literal gold standard when it comes to red removal. 3 damage is important for one specific reason above and beyond other, fringe cases: Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I want the ability to punish my opponent if they play a Jace and Brainstorm with him immediately. Furthermore, Bolt-holdpri-DCM is a Thing. That costs 4 mana, and I'd rather not make that line more expensive than it already is. 6 damage vs 4 is also a thing.

While DCM-powered plays on your own spells may not seem like they'd be that common, it has actually come up a couple of times in my testing already -- enough to where, coupled with the Jace relevancy and general mana efficiency, I definitely prefer Bolt to the other options. Tapping out for Wood Elves to get Taiga and hold up Lightning Bolt is pretty awesome.

[HoneyT]

Just landed in Charlotte for my connecting flight. I'll see you nerds in NJ!

PS. Kevin, I think three DCMs are too many.

[ironclad8690]

Just landed in Charlotte for my connecting flight. I'll see you nerds in NJ!

Hope to see you on camera :)

Hopefully we can break our record or 2 feature matches at Eternal Weekend! Go Veteran Explorer!

[Arianrhod]

Just landed in Charlotte for my connecting flight. I'll see you nerds in NJ!

PS. Kevin, I think three DCMs are too many.

I always, always want one. I haven't gone to 4 because I can't find room.

Also, we need to figure out source nic fit meetup.

[TheYoungster]

Hey everyone, I recently started playing Punishing Nic Fit, the list from the first page with lilianas, and I was wondering if Liliana is worth it anymore? Liliana has been terrible against UR delver, young pyromancer makes you look pretty dumb for casting the card and it has been pretty lackluster against miracles in my experience. I feel like I'd rather cut it for a Golgari charm, a forth abrupt decay, and probably another pernicious deed or maybe maelstrom pulse. Golgari charm has the added benefit of being easy to cast against elves and killing any veteran explorers in the process while also taking out cards like RIP, counterbalance sometimes and counters supreme verdict. I also wonder if choke is worth it now, I never thought it was great to begin with against decks like miracles and would probably have another pyroblast, golgari charm, or maelstrom pulse or even another krosan grip.

[ironclad8690]

Hey everyone, I recently started playing Punishing Nic Fit, the list from the first page with lilianas, and I was wondering if Liliana is worth it anymore? Liliana has been terrible against UR delver, young pyromancer makes you look pretty dumb for casting the card and it has been pretty lackluster against miracles in my experience. I feel like I'd rather cut it for a Golgari charm, a forth abrupt decay, and probably another pernicious deed or maybe maelstrom pulse. Golgari charm has the added benefit of being easy to cast against elves and killing any veteran explorers in the process while also taking out cards like RIP, counterbalance sometimes and counters supreme verdict. I also wonder if choke is worth it now, I never thought it was great to begin with against decks like miracles and would probably have another pyroblast, golgari charm, or maelstrom pulse or even another krosan grip.

I have had the same experience lately. I would definitely cut her for the cards that you mentioned, that should give you a well rounded set of answers.

[Cliq]

Hey everyone, I recently started playing Punishing Nic Fit, the list from the first page with lilianas, and I was wondering if Liliana is worth it anymore? Liliana has been terrible against UR delver, young pyromancer makes you look pretty dumb for casting the card and it has been pretty lackluster against miracles in my experience. I feel like I'd rather cut it for a Golgari charm, a forth abrupt decay, and probably another pernicious deed or maybe maelstrom pulse. Golgari charm has the added benefit of being easy to cast against elves and killing any veteran explorers in the process while also taking out cards like RIP, counterbalance sometimes and counters supreme verdict. I also wonder if choke is worth it now, I never thought it was great to begin with against decks like miracles and would probably have another pyroblast, golgari charm, or maelstrom pulse or even another krosan grip.

Another thing that I haven't seen discussed here much is that due to all our basics, you ideally really only want double symbols in one color. BB is unlikely to be cast on curve if you also have RR in your deck. This matters less at 4CMC and 5CMC, but is an issue for anything at 3CMC or less.

[maharis]

I am considering audibling to a version of Qweerios' Stoneforge list with only one VetEx. I'm still trying to find a mix of creatures, but the problem was Miracles... I just couldn't get the deck to do what I wanted in that matchup.

Gonna make a trip to the LGS and pick up a couple things tomorrow. Courser, Sigarda, RecSage are my targets. I'm testing tonight with the Knight package, 3 Sylvans, 2 Garruk Relentless, and no Liliana (see Ironclad & Youngster's exchange above about why she isn't good atm). Of course 2 Siege Rhino. So it probably won't be exact but the core is there: 4 VetEx, 4 SFM, 4 Decay, 4 GSZ, 4 Therapy, 3 Equips. Not running Thoughtseize maindeck in bolt.meta.

I currently have 2 flex slots that I'm considering running as Golgari Charms. I thought about why we play Deed/Deluge, and it occurred to me that the reason we fear swarms in this meta are generally X/1 things that get out of control like Pyromancer, Elves, D&T, and even Empty the Warrens if you want it. Everything I would play would kill Dryad Arbor anyway. There's also the chance you nail an unflipped delver, Clique, unthreshed Mongoose, etc. And of course Sneak Attack, Counterbalance, the enchants in the Helm combo are all potentially live at the GP. They might be better as STPs, or even Abzan Charm (could cut a Sylvan for a Charm and then run 2 STP. Wish Abzan Charm got the Disenchant mode...)

Sideboard is mostly the same. Liliana because when she's still good, she's real good. Kind of want Choke for these new basic-heavy Blade decks.

3 Thoughtseize
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Choke
1 Sword of Feast & Famine

Will post a list at some point Saturday. Unless I go down fast, haha.

[jbone2016]

At the site with honeyT. Look for a goonies t~shirt.

[jbone2016]

At the site with honeyT. Look for a goonies t~shirt.

[Ralf]

At the site with honeyT. Look for a goonies t~shirt.

I'll be routing for NicFit players !!!
Good luck everyone.

May the Veteran Stars be aligned.

[MD.Ghost]

I'll be routing for NicFit players !!!
Good luck everyone.

May the Veteran Stars be aligned.

Same Same - Best Wishes for everyone at GP NY!

[Jain_Mor]

Yea good luck everyone! I'll be watching eagerly this evening :)

@Ralf, great post! We need an Abzan section in the primer for that to be put into

I especially like your analysis because I came to similar conclusions this week XD for example, liliana is a card I realised I've been missing and am really glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks it should be in the sideboard

I have one point of contention though, as much as I like the idea of dryad militant (I've considered it before), I just don't think it will work. Cantrip/lightingbolt.dec is not going to have a hard time killing ur 2/1 at all. And I'd rather Gsun for a veteran explorer..

Plus we are usually packing -1/-1 effects for the matchup, and it can't even block elemental tokens :/
If it came I to play, exiled inst and sorc and then continued to, then we'd be talking :P
However it does seem good against the unfair graveyard decks!

Your point regarding null for is valid though.
At the moment I've just been ignoring cruise entirely or just hinder with can tripping relics, they just draw all these irrelevant cards while I gain life and smack them down with scoozes, angels, rhinos and batterskulls.

However, if they realise they shouldn't be siding out their FoW, then things will get a bit harder, but that's what therapy is for.

My plan is currently
-1 teeg, -1 eternal witness/dryad arbor, -1 Abzan charm, -2 sylvan library
+1 deed, +1 engineered plague (against goyf variants, and those without pyromancer this will be a liliana, and 2 deluge will be taken out to keep the Abzan charm and bring in another Lili), +2 relic of prog, +1 reclamation sage (blood moon, vortex, null rod)

If obtaining Chains of Mestophelelelsosoes where feasible for me, I'd play them instead of the relics :(

Regarding fun charm, I've tried it, I really tried! But drawing it was sooo miserable against the majority of decks.
So thanks for reminding me about Vindicate, which is still one of the best charms ever printed! It has like 6 modes >:)
and helps up with a lot of matchups, especially as we don't run wasteland.

[HoneyT]

Good luck today gentlemen. May Pharika bless us all. I'll be keeping the thread updated with my results.