[Deck] Goblins

[cooljets]

The one-of Pyrokinesis seems weird, and probably not sustainable with the 3 Chrome Mox. I already lose enough games when I draw multiple moxes (although not enough to cut them, yet, I still think the speed is important). Right now I'm on your exact list Gobo, subbing 1 Pendelhaven for the 4th Wasteland and the Pyrokinesis is a SGC. Playing in a tourney today, I will report back.

[mrblueduck]

So, props for the build by Cedrick... That's nice. I always loved the white splash and it turned out performing pretty good. Looks I'm going to brew the Rw Goblins again

EDIT: so Richard Liu dropped Piledriver completly. Is this your friend, mrblueduck? List has your signature, sort of

Yes, Richard played my exact 75, so the deck ended up finishing 12-2-2 in the swiss. I think this version is well positioned and overall a very solid build of the deck. I would 100% recommend it to anyone interesting playing at SCG NJ.

As for piledriver, it hasn't been in any of my builds for a long time. If you want to run them that's fine, I just don't think its what the deck wants. I could write pages on what builds can run piledriver, and which shouldn't. When constructing your own version at least consider how good it is are in the context of what you are deciding to play.

Mrblueduck, will you share your tournament report?

Went 6-2 with 2 loses. Lost to the eventual winner in round 7.
R1 Miracles W
R2 Esper Stoneblade W
R3 Mono Red L
R4 UWR Blade W
R5 Deathblade W
R6 12 Post W
R7 Dredge L
R8 Deathblade W

[OlegtheSuper]

Went 6-2 with 2 loses. Lost to the eventual winner in round 7.
R1 Miracles W
R2 Esper Stoneblade W
R3 Mono Red L
R4 UWR Blade W
R5 Deathblade W
R6 12 Post W
R7 Dredge L
R8 Deathblade W

Please write your sb plans. Looks like list is realy good!

What do you think to add containment preist in sb?

[cooljets]

I played in my LGS's montly Legacy tourney on Sunday. Here's what I ran.


//MANA [22]:
10 Mountain
4 Cavern Of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Pendelhaven
3 Chrome Mox

//CORE [32]:
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire

//TOOLBOX [6]:
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

//SIDEBOARD [15]:
4 Chalice Of The Void
3 Goblin Settler
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Lightning Crafter
2 Stingscourger
2 Tuktuk Scrapper

And my results:

2-1 vs Sultai Delver
0-2 vs Miracles
1-2 vs Imperial Painter
2-1 vs Ooops All Spells
2-0 vs Sylvan Plug

I didn't take very good notes, but a few takeaways nonetheless: I feel like I got pretty unlucky vs Miracles, he hit Terminus and Entreat right on time both games and there wasn't much I could do. I let the Painter player take back a Red Elemental Blast that he used when I cast something off of Caverns because I was feeling nice and he ended up winning because of it, that was probably a "misplay" on my part. Lightning Crafter actually ended up doing some work this time, I brought them in against Ooops All Spells and an Instigator dropped a Chieftain and Crafter and the Crafter was able to kill the black 2/3 "put your library into your graveyard" creature before my opponent was able to use it. Overall I think this mono-red version is serviceable, I feel like my losses were to variance and my misplaced altruism.

[Chatto]

I played in my LGS's montly Legacy tourney on Sunday. Here's what I ran.


//MANA [22]:
10 Mountain
4 Cavern Of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Pendelhaven
3 Chrome Mox

//CORE [32]:
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire

//TOOLBOX [6]:
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

//SIDEBOARD [15]:
4 Chalice Of The Void
3 Goblin Settler
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Lightning Crafter
2 Stingscourger
2 Tuktuk Scrapper

And my results:

2-1 vs Sultai Delver
0-2 vs Miracles
1-2 vs Imperial Painter
2-1 vs Ooops All Spells
2-0 vs Sylvan Plug

I didn't take very good notes, but a few takeaways nonetheless: I feel like I got pretty unlucky vs Miracles, he hit Terminus and Entreat right on time both games and there wasn't much I could do. I let the Painter player take back a Red Elemental Blast that he used when I cast something off of Caverns because I was feeling nice and he ended up winning because of it, that was probably a "misplay" on my part. Lightning Crafter actually ended up doing some work this time, I brought them in against Ooops All Spells and an Instigator dropped a Chieftain and Crafter and the Crafter was able to kill the black 2/3 "put your library into your graveyard" creature before my opponent was able to use it. Overall I think this mono-red version is serviceable, I feel like my losses were to variance and my misplaced altruism.

Wow, a full playset of Settlers? How did that go? Did you never felt you needed some more removal? And Piledriver; did it felt good to run the full set?

EDIT: what is Sultai Delver?

[GoboLord]

Some comments.

* Wow. Beating Oops All Spells with SPEED is pretty sick. Great job.
* No need to feel bad about that "misplay". I suppose the REL was Regular, so I'm pretty sure that a judge would have decided just like you did: your opponent announced the "counter" mode when cast REB and there we no legal targets. So actions will usually be reversed 'til the moment when he has REB on his hand. Besides: Would you have felt better knowing that you only WON because he wasted a resource for nothing?

//SIDEBOARD [15]:
4 Chalice Of The Void
3 Goblin Settler
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Lightning Crafter
2 Stingscourger
2 Tuktuk Scrapper

* I like your all-goblin SB a lot. How would you board against the following decks?

(1) Death & Taxes
(2) BUG Delver Treasure Cruise
(3) Esperblade/Deathblade
(4) UR Delver

[magicmerl]

* No need to feel bad about that "misplay". I suppose the REL was Regular, so I'm pretty sure that a judge would have decided just like you did: your opponent announced the "counter" mode when cast REB and there we no legal targets. So actions will usually be reversed 'til the moment when he has REB on his hand. Besides: Would you have felt better knowing that you only WON because he wasted a resource for nothing?

It's a perfectly legal play to choose to target a Cavern'd Lacked with REB (assuming Painters Servant is in play). It won't counter it, but it is a legal play.

[GoboLord]

It's a perfectly legal play to choose to target a Cavern'd Lacked with REB (assuming Painters Servant is in play). It won't counter it, but it is a legal play.

Pretty sure there is no legal for REB in counter-mode when you cast that goblin off colored mana from Cavern of Souls. Cavern reads that creatue spells cant be countered when its colored mana was spent to cast it. In the same way you cant choose creatures as a legal target for lets say Swords to Plowshares that cant be target of spells of abilities. Also you cant cast a Spell Snare when there are only spells with CMC of 3 on the stack (i.e. when there are no legal targets)

[Sandro95]

Pretty sure there is no legal for REB in counter-mode when you cast that goblin off colored mana from Cavern of Souls. Cavern reads that creatue spells cant be countered when its colored mana was spent to cast it. In the same way you cant choose creatures as a legal target for lets say Swords to Plowshares that cant be target of spells of abilities. Also you cant cast a Spell Snare when there are only spells with CMC of 3 on the stack (i.e. when there are no legal targets)

Actually you can cast a counterspell (or REB, FOW etc) on an uncounterable spell, it just won't counter it. Uncounterability is more comparable to indestructibility than hexproof/shroud here. You can still Doomblade an indestructible creature, it just won't be destroyed.

[GoboLord]

I asked a judge today and you people are right. I didn't know that.

[dissy]

Hey guys planning on playing this list on the dutch championchip sunday

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8417&d=248348&f=LE

few questions though
- what u guys think of taking out magus of the moon and add wear and tear to the board (we have no answers to enchantments with this list so thats why i'am thinking about it.
- should we board in rips against ur delver just to take out there delve cards?

Thx in advance for the answers

[LeoCop 90]

About countering uncounterable spells : if you play the blue splash with swan song, you can cast a goblin with cavern of souls, counter it with swan song and get a 2/2 swan in return while not losing your goblin. It is a narrow play but effective if you are facing combo and you think you just need more pressure at the moment.



About the U/R matchup: i just remembered that Engineered Plague on Humans is a pain for their deck ! Unless they already have a board flooded with pyromancer elementals (in that case you can name elemental) or flipped delvers, all they can do is casting 0/1 swiftspears. Given that we play a good amount of removal and blockers to ensure things don't go too bad too early (like dying from a turn 2 flipped delver), i think that a resolved plague on humans should make us win 90% of the time.


Dissy:
I like that list but i have to say i am not a fan of the 2 magus of the moon. I think that if you want that effect you are better off playing blood moon, because some of the tricolored decks that lose to moon effects play red anyway (uwr delver, jund) and can just bolt or punishing fire the magus but cannot remove a moon in play.Magus is better just against bug because you can make him uncounterable with cavern and they can't remove it anyway. Honestly i don't know if a moon effect is needed at all especially in a list with no chrome moxes because at best you can play your turn 3 moon and, while you may catch opponents off-guard the first time, they won't be unprepared the next one. I would like to hear from mrblueduck the reason behind choosing to play 2 magus of the moon as well as 2 jitte in sideboard. And yes, i think wear/tear is a reasonable sideboard card to answer random cards that we cannot answer otherwise (for example rip/energy field that made a comeback recently).
Regarding your second question my answer is no, don't board rest in peace against u/r delver. It is suboptimal to dilute your deck for a card that does nothing relevant besides shutting off 4 of the opponent's cards. It would be like boarding in rip against burn to shut off grim lavamancer.

[OlegtheSuper]

About countering uncounterable spells : if you play the blue splash with swan song, you can cast a goblin with cavern of souls, counter it with swan song and get a 2/2 swan in return while not losing your goblin. It is a narrow play but effective if you are facing combo and you think you just need more pressure at the moment.

You can't counter creatures if it is not enchantment/instant/sorcery with swan song.

[Sandro95]

Just wanted to point out to anyone going to GPNJ that Kor Firewalker is a good card and you should propably have a plan for it.

[magicmerl]

I asked a judge today and you people are right. I didn't know that.

It's the same as being able to resolve a Cavern'd Lackey through and opponent's Counterbalance with a Top on top.

You can't counter creatures if it is not enchantment/instant/sorcery with swan song.

Agreed. It's posts like this that make me question the credibility of the poster. If they cant'e ven read the cards they are giving advice on, how likely is it that their deep strategic thoughts will be valuable?

[GoboLord]

Hey everyone,

Tonight I played a couple of games (4 preboard, 3 postboard) against BUG Delver ( this list to get a feeling for the MU.
I used my regular Winstigator list, 6 flex slots in MD were: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Kiki-Jiki, 1 Stingscourger, 2 Goblin Settler.

SB looks like this:
4 chalice, 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Grafdiggers Cage, 2 Relic of Progenitus, 1 Boartusk Liege, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Tuktuk Scrapper, 2 Pyroblast.

IN: 2 Relic , 2 Pyroblast, 1 Boartusk Liege
OUT: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper, 1 Sharpshooter, 3 Piledriver

Some thoughts on the MU:
* g1 is fairly easy, the real Killers are early and flipped delvers and Tarmogoyfs in multiples.
* the deck is very light on removal in games 1
* you can Sometimes force their turn 1 delver / turn 2 insectile aberration into defense by merely playing a Winstigator that the need a blocker for.
* in game 2 the should usually not have any counter magic left and their deck is all about creatures+removal
* relic is a perfect fit against their strategy because it Makes 3 relevant cards significantly worse: tarmogoyfs, DRS and Treasure Cruise.
* pyroblast attacks the leftovers: delver of secrets, that occassional stifle or brainstorm and of curse Treasure Cruise as well.
* together with Tarfire you have 8 cards that Deal with all of their winconditions.

All in all I would say that the MU is a favorable one. However we should not feel too self-secure here, because this combination of Colors knows more than one Kind of strategy and we need to be prepared to see unexpected cards.

[mrblueduck]

Dissy:
I like that list but i have to say i am not a fan of the 2 magus of the moon. I think that if you want that effect you are better off playing blood moon, because some of the tricolored decks that lose to moon effects play red anyway (uwr delver, jund) and can just bolt or punishing fire the magus but cannot remove a moon in play.Magus is better just against bug because you can make him uncounterable with cavern and they can't remove it anyway. Honestly i don't know if a moon effect is needed at all especially in a list with no chrome moxes because at best you can play your turn 3 moon and, while you may catch opponents off-guard the first time, they won't be unprepared the next one. I would like to hear from mrblueduck the reason behind choosing to play 2 magus of the moon as well as 2 jitte in sideboard. And yes, i think wear/tear is a reasonable sideboard card to answer random cards that we cannot answer otherwise (for example rip/energy field that made a comeback recently).
Regarding your second question my answer is no, don't board rest in peace against u/r delver. It is suboptimal to dilute your deck for a card that does nothing relevant besides shutting off 4 of the opponent's cards. It would be like boarding in rip against burn to shut off grim lavamancer.

Magus of the Moon is far better than Blood Moon. Neither are very good against Jund. Any competent opponent will get basics to play around the Vail + Wasteland deck. And that's not to mention Jund is pretty much unplayable right now. So basically out of all the decks in legacy UWR Delver is where Blood Moon is better. The problem is these aggressive Delver decks run wasteland, and this one in particular used to run 12 counter spells main board, (6-8 post board). It was just impossible to resolve. Well, Magus makes it easier to resolve, via cavern and can be flashed in by vial. A lot of the time you play your blood moon, and the Delver BUG Decks just float GB and decay it in response. No player ever floats mana to you tapping a vial on 3. So those are often free wins against the bug builds. They also bring in 2 Golgari charms which can be floated to answer moon, but again matches up poorly against Magus. Magus just matches up better against the decks you want the effect in, and is much easier to get into play. We got several free wins because of Magus. It is very hard to play around.

Jitte is for Burn and U/R Delver. I always thought Jitte was the best/most versatile card against Burn. I wanted more help in the U/R matchup though. I am still not thrilled with the 2nd Jitte, but its better than a 2nd sharpshooter. Its obviously good against both, but matches up poorly against U/R sideboard plan. I like Chains and Choke out the board in the future, but still had little time to test both.

Wear & Tear is fine. The only real enchantment I am worried about currently is an Engineered Plague, but I was willing to bet I wouldn't see any, and we didn't in the 16 matches. I think if we would of played 32 I am still not convinced we would need the enchantment removal. If you are playing it for the artifact removal aspect, I would recommend Mogg Salvage. It seems really solid.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I didn't know Mogg Salvage existed. I would have tested it a long time ago otherwise. Nice find.

[LeoCop 90]

You can't counter creatures if it is not enchantment/instant/sorcery with swan song.

Obviously XD it happened to me to counter abrupt decay with swan song to get a 2/2 swan so my mind was sure it could be done also with a caverned lackey..... i just forgot the extremely marginal part that swan song can't counter creatures


Mrblueduck: While magus of the moon is a free win a lot of the times against bug , i think it is a bit narrow because it is very good only in that matchup... in general i don't like very much moon effects in decks without mana acceleration, unless the meta is 90% 3+ color greedy decks, which is not at the moment. I do respect your preference though.
Jitte is totally reasonable, it also helps fighting elves and death and taxes. What are the "chains" you are considering out of the sideboard ?

[Sandro95]

Hi everyone. What are your thougts on our matchup versus the new Jeskai Stoneblade deck? After board they have TNN, Kor Firewalker, Equipments, Sweepers, and Dig Through Time to find all of these. Any ideas/strategic advice for the matchup will be greatly appreciated.