[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ralf]

I think the better solution is just to run your own delve cards, because against most decks a Relic is taking up your turn 1 while only being a minor annoyance to them. Even something like ANT doesn't care all that much if you're munching their graveyard. You have Glen Elendra, potentially Notion Thief, and FOW to deal with Cruise, as well as your own digs to find that stuff.

I added 3 DRS to the side for decks like dredge, storm and reanimator, but I'm not sure if it's the best GY hate card. I'd run Oozes, except that they suck in the deck due to the lack of green sources. Would spellbomb just be better? It's definitely worse against storm, about even against reanimator, and way better against dredge. It's also potentially ok vs miracles.

First Note:

Well, sadly, you won't get to cruise BEFORE a deck designed to cruise on T3.
Tempo decks will likely cruise before control ones.

This is very important because the first cruiser has better odds to:
- have a FOW in hand for your cruise -> you are at 1 card disadvantage
- setup the 2nd cruise, etc... -> certainly the worst issue

So, imho, you cannot fight back only by using their own weapons.

Second Note:

I'm not sure to fully understand your assumption of Nihil > Relic against dredge (or you were talking about your DRS sideboard option)?
Furthermore, Relic is a pain for ANT:
- They have to keep their spell in hands and unload them at the same time.
- It invalidates the PIF plan, so that their only path is usually Ad Nauseam into chain spell into Tendrils.

Last note:

The list I have posted one page back is already full of delve cards and answers:
- FOW
- Glen Elendra
- TC/ DTT

T1 -> Relic is a strong play (On the play). Sure your opponent can only crack fetch/play instant during your T2 so that you are losing 1 turn of Relic's ability but it is not that relevant. On the draw, I'd make sure I can play it "Daze" proof (against an unknow opponent, obviously).

[Cliq]

I'm not saying that relic is irrelevant, just that I think it's better to ponder into deed or whatever and blow up whatever they drew off cruise, or just counter the cruise. This is especially important because of how many decks don't really care about relic at all (sneak&show, elves, death and taxes, etc). I don't find that the deck stuggles against cruise decks anyway, with the exception of possibly esper stoneblade.

I play ANT as well, and people often board in Cage or RIP against me. It's not irrelevant, especially RIP because it makes cabal ritual fairly bad, but it's really not great either. Ideally, the deck wants to tutor chain into tendrils. Barring that, it wants to PIF, followed by ad nauseum, so if you board in cage or relic vs storm you've added multiple cards in your deck for one card in the storm deck, and they'll just take another route to victory.

And I meant that Nihil is better than DRS against dredge.

[maharis]

Don't take this the wrong way but those BUG lists are garbage. GSZ is, has always been, and will continue to be the glue that holds this deck together. It is the green Brainstorm because casting one is equivalent to casting a cantrip into the exact green creature you want. Playing 4 Explorers is clunky and wasteful if your only sac outlets are 4 Therapies. Playing Nic Fit without a GSZ package is like playing a bad modern deck. The prospect of playing Brainstorm and GSZ in the same deck is what BUG Fit has to offer.

I tested a BUG list similar to the one I posted and the deck is quite smooth. Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy are great together. Treasure Cruise is actually great at keeping the deck going. We have the luxury to sink more mana than required to cast TC.

I'm basically in agreement with this, although I typically play around with the numbers a little more than you do.

The problem from a BUG standpoint is the tension between Zenith and its attending package vs blue spells (FoW) and their attending packages. There are only so many slots in a deck. Even if you shave down on Explorers (which is actually probably correct for non-scape lists, at least in this metagame, as much as that breaks my heart), you're still running afoul of space concerns.

You guys both hit on some issues I've noticed in trying to brew BUG. GSZ is a sweet card. But there is a BUG pod player at my store who doesn't run GSZ and I think he's right that it just isn't want the bug versions want to do. He plays things like clique, sower of temptation, glen elendra and grave titan. GSZ gets him nowhere so he doesn't bother. Of course he has to play 4 vetex. But then i guess the point is that with Brainstorm and Jace he can ditch late ones anyway. Something like 2 GSZ + 2 VetEx or even 3 + 1 with some number of DRS and some late-game GSZ targets is likely right. But how good is this deck vs. any other brainstorm deck?

I tried to go halfway with some creatures that were both GSZable and Teachings-able (and of course with Teferi on the field any creature is a Teachings target) but those are things like Horizon Chimera. And Pyroblast effects are a real thing at the moment against your big blue spells/permanents.

The other option, of course, is to not run Force. Then you can cut down your blue count and really just play Brainstorm for value and whatever other randomness you want in your deck. I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. Nothing is as good at doing what Force does but there are plenty of counterspells available.

6) Junk... I mean Abzan versions are the ones that interest me the least for now, but they seem to be the most consistent. Why is that?

So I have been playing Junk for a while, I played it at the GP and I actually thought it was really good and I think I would've done better with a little more practice. The thing about the deck is that vs. the metagame I think it's pretty strong because you get a lot of lifegain vs. the aggressive tempo decks and a decent amount of disruption for other matchups. But it takes a lot of testing and card choice is very important. Just little things like whether you feel you want Sylvan Library or Sensei's Divining Top change your approach to cards like Pernicious Deed. I also found that the deck can stall out, especially if you get into a batterskull war.

I do think Siege Rhino is a true game-changer for the deck though, typically pushing the last few points through has been a struggle and having a way to just dome for 3 can make a big difference. It actually prevents you from needing to play a 6 drop imo. The format is very fast and having your 6-drop in hand forever is just a nightmare. Siege Rhino has ETB, has evasion (another issue for Junk builds). But there's no real reason not to run a Titan or similar if you want. I just prefer to not do that. I could be wrong though.

Also I am definitely on team spellbomb but that's because of my irrational love for Knight of the Reliquary + Vault of the Archangel. From a UR perspective, I don't care what they cruise into if I get that going, I don't even bother trying to shut off their cruises, especially preboard. Against other builds, shutting off cruise may be relevant but Spellbomb is fine. Spellbomb being active turn one is also super important against dredge/reanimator.

[kade]

1) Punishing Fire is a hard control list. Scapewish is either a midrange deck with a combo finish or a combo/control deck, depending on which subvariant you want. It's basically how aggressive you want to be.

2) Harder to find it, doesn't tend to do as much since most of Jund's creatures are fairly low-impact overall. Some of this may be wrong -- it's an old notion that dates back to when Junk lists still ran Academy Rector.

3) The problem here is that sometimes, the game doesn't go as you plan, and you don't get to ramp as much as you would like. Sometimes you draw an opening hand with a bunch of 5s and 6s and lands and you do nothing forever (or mull it). In a perfect world where we curved naturally every game, sure, we'd run probably 3 six-drops. Some of the BUG lists still do. It's usually a little safer on the curve to only run 1, though. As to which one is selected....that's a bit more complex of a discussion since it varies wildly based on the individual list.

4) I'm a big fan of combo finishes in nic fit. The problem is that most of the ones offered by Pod are pretty rancid -- a lot of them are 3+ card combos which don't really work well in legacy. Spike Feeder / Archangel of Thune has seen a good bit of play in junk lists, although they typically trend more towards junk midrange/junk control style, with no pods. Some of that is likely because Spike Feeder isn't a great Pod card. Still, this combo has proven itself and if you want to run it, nobody will stop you. It's worth remembering that legacy gets a lot of banned toys compared to modern. How quickly would Melira Pod run Stoneforge Mystic + package if it could? At some point the space just runs out.

5) Jund Pod has been theorized a million times but never actually put into practice. The upper-cmc is all there -- the biggest problem is at the 2-spot, where you're pretty damn weak. Jund Pod is realistically one-two 2-drops away from being very strong. Neither Bob nor Goyf is what we want (the traditional Jund 2-drops).

6) Junk has a TON of raw power, and it flat wins some percentage of games just by flexing its arm Popeye-style and making its opponents quiver in fear. I'm not really sure where this illusion of consistency comes from otherwise -- it has its own problems, as with every forme of nic fit. There is no "ultimate version" -- at least, not yet.

Thanks a lot for your answers, Arianrhod.
From what you said I also infer that the lack of good early creatures on Jund for the Pod packages also hurts Recurring Nightmare. I'll try to stay away from Pod + Rec for the time being. Better to know the archetype before going fancy. I think the best way to see what I like and what works for me is sleeving something up and playing. I'll start with one of the list here and work from there.

A couple more questions though:
Does the Gerard Fabiano list have any merit to it? Has anyone tried it? Seems to be so far from the discussions in this thread.
Is GY hate more common now with the rising of delve cards? Does that hurt Punishing Fire strategies too much?

[Cliq]

Thanks a lot for your answers, Arianrhod.
From what you said I also infer that the lack of good early creatures on Jund for the Pod packages also hurts Recurring Nightmare. I'll try to stay away from Pod + Rec for the time being. Better to know the archetype before going fancy. I think the best way to see what I like and what works for me is sleeving something up and playing. I'll start with one of the list here and work from there.

A couple more questions though:
Does the Gerard Fabiano list have any merit to it? Has anyone tried it? Seems to be so far from the discussions in this thread.
Is GY hate more common now with the rising of delve cards? Does that hurt Punishing Fire strategies too much?

People are randomly maindecking GY hate but it's not actually all that good, so I wouldn't worry about it. If they have 4 maindeck Leyline of the Voids and you have 4 punishing fires, yours will still be 2 damage for 2 while all of theirs beyond the first are dead. Fabiano's list looks very bad to me, but I haven't tried it. It looks like he tried to get way too cute. Academy/EE is cool but I suspect it's too slow without more counterspells.

Recurring nightmare/pod for Jund isn't used that much because there aren't actually a lot of good R/G value creatures compared to BUG or junk, or at least that I can think of. It's certainly something you can try.

[sdematt]

Inspired by Tim's finish, I'll be trying this setup:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Eternal Witness
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Thragtusk
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Path to Exile


SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Baneslayer Angel
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Massacre

I'm going to try Path since if your opponent is getting basics off Vet, Path will make my Vets more asymmetrical and realistically, I want to Siege Rhino people out of games. I don't care about their lands. Maybe I'm wrong, but these Russian Paths need their day in the sunlight. Now to finish off my set of Korean Veteran Explorers and Carpets and we're golden.

-Matt

[Whitefaces]

Maybe I'm being a bit crazy, but Aether Flash looks exciting! Probably from the SB, but if you land it early off some ramp it could be pretty devastating for most creature decks. I think I'll give it a try at my LGSs next Legacy night in Punishing Fit.

[Fatal]

Aether Flash do nothing vs resolved delver/young pyromancer its 2RR so rather hard to resolve under spell pierces - I would rather focused on remove to kill creatures resolved turn1-2, after you stabilize most time game is yours.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I know I probably missed the boat on this, but what do yall think of the titania+safekeeper eot army? Seems like the kinda thing all forms of Nic Fit needed in general (a way ti close out the game quickly that is)

[GtF]

I know I probably missed the boat on this, but what do yall think of the titania+safekeeper eot army? Seems like the kinda thing all forms of Nic Fit needed in general (a way ti close out the game quickly that is)

I think it's really powerful. If you can survive the following turn, there's really no way they're beating roughly 40 power of creatures outside of a miracled terminus. It seems strong in a list with GSZ and Knight of the Reliquary, since they naturally combo well with Titania and are good cards. Then the deck starts to look more like a Maverick-type shell though, which maybe isn't what we want.
I have been experimenting with different builds, haven't actually played any of them against anything, as they all just seem to weak to me so far.

You could run it in a pod shell instead of grave titan. If it's BUG pod, this gives you an option to play trinket mage for zuran orb. The issue is that zuran orb and sylvan safekeeper are just pretty weak cards without other synergies to back them up (loam with orb, and equipment with safekeeper). Pod also took a massive beating now that everyone just incidentally has containment priests in their SBs. It is possible that Titania is just good enough on its own and doesn't need any support.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I think it's really powerful. If you can survive the following turn, there's really no way they're beating roughly 40 power of creatures outside of a miracled terminus. It seems strong in a list with GSZ and Knight of the Reliquary, since they naturally combo well with Titania and are good cards. Then the deck starts to look more like a Maverick-type shell though, which maybe isn't what we want.
I have been experimenting with different builds, haven't actually played any of them against anything, as they all just seem to weak to me so far.

You could run it in a pod shell instead of grave titan. If it's BUG pod, this gives you an option to play trinket mage for zuran orb. The issue is that zuran orb and sylvan safekeeper are just pretty weak cards without other synergies to back them up (loam with orb, and equipment with safekeeper). Pod also took a massive beating now that everyone just incidentally has containment priests in their SBs. It is possible that Titania is just good enough on its own and doesn't need any support.

True, Safekeeper is weak by itself. But I think it still shines pretty well in matchups where we need to protect a Gaddock Teeg or other hate bears from spot removal.

As far as "becoming Maverick" is concerned, I think Titania is one of those cards that demands to be used in a Nic-Fit shell due to her mana cost. I know Maverick is trying to shoehorn her and Gaea's Cradle into their lists, but it feels ... greedy ... considering that sweepers are becoming more popular now. Plus, as long as your Deathrite Shaman hasn't cleaned your own graveyard of fetches, she's effectively two 5/3s plus a bodiless Wood Elves for 5.

[Qweerios]

You also are only playing 4 therapies as sac outlets (in the list you posted).
Your blue count is 18 and you want to play 4 FOW ?
Gitaxian is nice, but sometimes I wish it were a ponder because:
- losing life in a control deck does matter and opening a hand with 2 or more probe is painful.
- Having Probe + CT in your opening hand (or before T3) happens, but not that often.
- Digging for 4 when you look for a therapy is far better than only 1.

Eventually it comes down to evaluate if it is better to hit more consistently with CT (thus, playing Probe) or to actually find more consistently your sac outlets (thus, playing Ponder).

The similar list I tested played 2 Explorers, 2 DRS, and 4 GSZ with the Rec Sage in the SB and a Kruphix in the main instead.

-18 is the minimal functional blue count for FoW. Yes, it is enough.

-When life becomes an issue, you hardcast the probe. We arent playing a tempo deck. Therefore our hands aren't packed with CMC 1 cards that maximize the use of each of our lands. You will always find 2 life or 1 mana to squeeze the additional copies in the first few turns without having to sacrifice anything. I played 4 Probes in BUG Fit 1-2 years back they are amazing. They were also focal at enabling FoW postboard.

-It doesn't matter if it doesn't happen all the time.. By that logic, having an Explorer and a Therapy in your hand at the same time happens, but not often enough. While that is true, you have to evaluate the synergy and individual worth of the cards. The main difference between Explorer and Probe however, is that Probe isn't dead on its own, making it better in every instances.

-Probe isn't about digging, its about having a higher blue count and seeing your opponent's hand for free. You don't use Probe as a tutor for Therapy, it is simply a damn good blue card, and an even better one with Therapy.

-DTT isn't better than TC. Unlike nearly every other deck, we actually want to draw into lands because we can use up to 7 lands in play (GSZ@6). The turn you draw the card is the turn you want to play it, and drawing 3 cards for 1 less mana is actually relevant. Unless your deck is filled with bad situational cards (AKA: Lands, Legendary permanents, cards that do nothing for specific matchups, cards that do nothing in multiples), TC beats DTT every time.

[Arianrhod]

I'm sure a reason exists, but why don't decks just arbitrarily add 4x Probe to their deck (and run 64/65 cards). I'm guessing because it adds another level of randomization to the cards you draw (less chance to have X in opening hand, then less chance to randomly draw X on any draw in the game)?

My problem with Probe is not its strength as a card, which I don't think you an really question effectively. Card's good. The problem is finding enough room to have meaningful cards in your deck alongside of it.

[Qweerios]

I'm sure a reason exists, but why don't decks just arbitrarily add 4x Probe to their deck (and run 64/65 cards). I'm guessing because it adds another level of randomization to the cards you draw (less chance to have X in opening hand, then less chance to randomly draw X on any draw in the game)?

My problem with Probe is not its strength as a card, which I don't think you an really question effectively. Card's good. The problem is finding enough room to have meaningful cards in your deck alongside of it.

I remember answering this question in this thread before. The reason why we don't all auto-include 4 Probes is because it has a cost. You gladly want to pay 2 life to start the game with your opponent's hand revealed, but you don't want to pay 4-8 life or sink important mana during a game for the same overlapping effect. Unless your deck somehow takes a greater advantage from the card (AKA: Fill GY for TC or hand information for CT) or manages its cost, the repetitive costs outweigh the one-time benefit.

Also, a starting hand with multiple Probes is increasingly difficult to gauge.

[HoneyT]

Inspired by Tim's finish, I'll be trying this setup:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Eternal Witness
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Thragtusk
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Path to Exile

SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Baneslayer Angel
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Massacre

-Matt

A few thoughts about the list:

-I LOVE quad Siege Rhino. He's the fucking truth. I've been trying to talk other Junk players into running four of that guy.
-Thrun is not necessary alongside Sigarda. If you're in white, she's just better.
-I also prefer either Council's Judgement or Vindicate to Maelstrom Pulse in Junk colors (I personally play Judgement)
-I still don't like Dryad Arbor in any non-pod list.

Congratulations again HoneyT. If I may ask you some questions, there are some things I'd like your insight on, and I would be very grateful to hear it.

1st: Were you satisfied with the 3/3 PF/AD split? Did you think that any time a 4th decay was necessary and/or the fires were clunky in the face of the speed of delver decks?

2nd: it seemed that Liliana is still performing very well despite the ascendancy of young pyro. Would you touch the number of main board Lillys?

3rd: Have you considered the deathrite-veteran split the abzan and sultai versions are doing for the punishing version?

PS: I would also ask that, if you were to play the last split, would you still run the phy tower, but you already cut that down, so no point here.

1. I was very happy with the removal suite. I would play the 4th Fire over the 4th Decay in this metagame if I were to change anything (I wouldn't). With fewer Tarmogoyfs running around, PFire usually kills everything. You want to see 1 copy in most games, so three is a good number to make that happen.

2. Absolutely not. Liliana is easily one of the best cards in the deck. She's the reason this version can steal game ones against combo and is incredible at locking out many of the fair decks. The fact that she's (marginally) worse in the face of more Young Pyromancers is mitigated by the fact that my deck gives approximately zero shits about that card.

3. I have considered a split and I've even played DRS in my list before. The only split I would consider playing is 4 VE/1 DRS. The thing a lot of Nic Fit players it seems are losing focus on is we are at heart a Veteran Explorer/Cabal Therapy deck. Our deck operates at it's best when we assemble that combination of cards. So running less than 4 of each is folly. I understand there are more basic lands in Legacy than there have been in the past and there's fear that our opponents can also take advantage of an Explorer. While this is true to some degree, the fact of the matter is by decreasing our ability to fire an Explorer off, we're decreasing the efficiency of our own deck as a whole. That is simply not worth it. I want my deck to operate at peak capacity game one. This isn't to say I never sideboard out some number of Explorers, but I always want 4 in my maindeck.

Is GY hate more common now with the rising of delve cards? Does that hurt Punishing Fire strategies too much?

No.

[L10]

Hi HoneyT, congrats again with your excellent finish. I was wondering why you did not include Reclamation Sage as part of your GSZ package, considering that you have a lone Krosan Grip in your SB. Thanks!

[EpicLevelCommoner]

3. I have considered a split and I've even played DRS in my list before. The only split I would consider playing is 4 VE/1 DRS. The thing a lot of Nic Fit players it seems are losing focus on is we are at heart a Veteran Explorer/Cabal Therapy deck. Our deck operates at it's best when we assemble that combination of cards. So running less than 4 of each is folly. I understand there are more basic lands in Legacy than there have been in the past and there's fear that our opponents can also take advantage of an Explorer. While this is true to some degree, the fact of the matter is by decreasing our ability to fire an Explorer off, we're decreasing the efficiency of our own deck as a whole. That is simply not worth it. I want my deck to operate at peak capacity game one. This isn't to say I never sideboard out some number of Explorers, but I always want 4 in my maindeck.

Strangely enough, I agree, even though I'm skeptical about the viability of Veteran Explorer in the meta in general (It's just not as easy to set off in a world full of Delver, Swords, Terminus, etc., it seems). Of course, that stems from the fact that we need a Cabal Therapy to hit the yard first before we can even think of landing a Vet or GSZ into Vet in said meta, and Therapy isn't as easy to tutor for as Vet is.

[Jain_Mor]

Ok incoming list with advice request!
Still constantly testing ideas, and have a local tournament tomorrow!
With the decrease in wastelands, having excess mana and equipment, I decided to test some man lands >:) At the moment I have 1 of each...
Wondering if you think one is obviously better, or that they are all terrible and I shouldn't bother D:

Other than that, Liliana is back, I realised I wanted her against so many decks, that putting her main freed up some sideboard slots.

4 Verd Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savanah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volraths Stronghold
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop village
1 Mishra's Factory
23

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Greensun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Veteran Explorer
1 Scooze
1 Goyf
1 Teeg
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
4 SFM
1 Jitte
1 Sword of F&I
1 Batterskull

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Toxic Deluge
2 Liliana
2 Sylvan Library
61

3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sprit of the Labyrinth
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter


Here is how I board with this, be interested to see what people think:

Aggro (Removal, Sweepers, Superior Creatures)
UR delver:
-1 teeg -2 Lili -2 library
+1 rec sage (null rod, cage, vortex) +2 deed +2 SoL (play the spirit once you have traded a bit, stop them from digging)

Jeskai Delver:
-1 teeg -2 lib (they don't run pyro, so Lili is sweet)
+1 rec sage +2 deed

Death & Taxes:
-1 teeg -2 Lili/library?
+1 rec sage +2 deed
(I want needle, but worried it's a nonbo with deed, library can dig for sweeper, but is easily revokered and deeded, but Lili costs 3 and just might be bad)

Transitioning to combo (thanks elves!) (Discard and Hatebears):

Elves:
-1 goyf -2 Lili -1 Sigarda -1 BSK -2 library/decay -2 decay
+3 TS +2 canonist +2 SoL +2 deed
(Similar question here, decay is really inefficient, would I rather try and dig for more wrath effects/hate with library, or keep in some decays for some 1 mana creatures?)

ANT:
-1 treetop -2 SFM -1 Jitte -4 decay -1 Sigarda -3 deluge(?how afraid of empty should I be?)
+2 extract +3 TS +2 canonist +2 SoL +1 Rec Sage +2 Deed

Sneak & Show/OmniTell
-1 treetop -2 SFM -1 Jitte -4 decay -1 Sigarda -3 deluge
+2 extract +3 TS +2 canonist +2 SoL +1 Rec Sage +2 needle

Reanimator
-1 treetop -1 SFM -1 Jitte -4 decay -1 Sigarda -3 deluge
+2 extract +3 TS +2 canonist +2 SoL +2 needle

Dredge
-2 decay -2 Lili
+2 Extct +2 Deed

Grindy matchups (resilient threats, pinpoint answers)

Jeskai Stoneblade
-1 teeg -1 jitte
+1 rec sage +1 Garruk PH

Miracles
-2 therapy -1 veteran -1 shaman -1 jitte -1 scooze -3 deluge
+3 TS +2 needle +1 RecSage +2 Deed +1 Garruk

GBr midrange (usually with punfire but really dependent on the variant)
-1 teeg -2 therapy -2 deluge
+2 ext +2 deed +1 garruk

Lands
-1 teeg -3 deluge -1 jitte -1 therapy
+2 extct +2 needle +1 rec sage +1 Garruk PH


I think that's most of my notes. Please. If you are going to suggest additions or changes, make sure they deck is still 75/76 cards when you're done :P

Edit: haha why are my posts always at the bottom of pages -.- #1stworldproblem

[ANRoebuck]

Report's up kiddos:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...553#post849553

Moving questions over from the report page...

What's your combo match like with this build? Nicfit is always better against fair decks than against combo, but your build seems particularly skewed. I notice you only played against one combo deck in 15 rounds, and that was one of the two losses. You're low on disruption for game 1 (I know you have Liliana, but it's 3 mana and they choose what to discard). Did you test much against combo? Was there much combo in the room generally or was there a big bias towards creature decks?

No love for Phyrexian Tower? The ability to sac an Explorer to Tower on turn two is, in my view, one of the best reasons to play the deck. Turn two Thragtusk/Zenith for 4/Slaughter Games+Thoughtseize is no laughing matter, especially on the play. Only 1 of your 23 lands doesn't make coloured mana, so I'm sure you could get away with playing a Tower in this list. Plus tapping for colourless isn't terrible in a deck with 25 spells you can use colourless mana on, plus Top to sink it into later.

Golgari Charm straight in the main instead of in the side is a nice move. How did it work out for you?

Do you think all 4 Tops are necessary? The card is crazy good but I've never played more than 3 as I'm generally not spinning early anyway (it doesn't feel proactive enough).

[Whitefaces]

No love for Phyrexian Tower? The ability to sac an Explorer to Tower on turn two is, in my view, one of the best reasons to play the deck. Turn two Thragtusk/Zenith for 4/Slaughter Games+Thoughtseize is no laughing matter, especially on the play. Only 1 of your 23 lands doesn't make coloured mana, so I'm sure you could get away with playing a Tower in this list. Plus tapping for colourless isn't terrible in a deck with 25 spells you can use colourless mana on, plus Top to sink it into later.

I was going to ask this as well. And any thoughts on Volrath's Stronghold? Only having Groves and Wolf Run seems like a little bit of missed opportunity for Prime Time.