You want as many of each as possible, and you probably want them in roughly equal numbers. It is my experience that dredging one card a turn is not fast enough in most matchups to win. I would not keep a 7 card hand with a dredger, discard outlet (and mana) but no way to draw cards. I also wouldn't keep Land, Land, Troll, Breakthrough, Breakthrough, 2 blanks (although I would keep it if it had a Petal, even in place of one of the lands).
Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator
Originally Posted by frogboy
Working on my sideboard, im not certian about a few things- do i need to run the nature's claims?
(Maindeck iona, no griselbrand, 3 ichorid, 4 cabal therapy, 2 Dread Return, 13 lands)
Sideboard looks like this-
3 abrupt decay
3 lotus petal
2 nature's claim
3 fae macabre
2 firestorm
1 darkblast (will swap for another firestorm, probably)
1 elesh Norn
1 ashen rider
Traded for my first Lion's Eye Diamond and completed my playset of Therapies, so I'm starting down the road at least.
I do have a question, though: What was the general reaction to Hallowed Spiritkeeper from Commander 2014? I get the impression it's not a great DR target to begin with, but the fact that the tokens it creates have flying was intriguing for certain matchups.
Nope, way too small and low impact. Why that if you can return Elesh Norn, Iona, Griselbrand, Grave Troll etc.Traded for my first Lion's Eye Diamond and completed my playset of Therapies, so I'm starting down the road at least.
I do have a question, though: What was the general reaction to Hallowed Spiritkeeper from Commander 2014? I get the impression it's not a great DR target to begin with, but the fact that the tokens it creates have flying was intriguing for certain matchups.
Yeah, like I said it struck me as a bad DR target to begin with, but I started lurking here around the time of GP Oakland and missed out on the discussion (well, I guess I could go back so many pages and trawl the discussion for the specific posts, but...)
Playing some legacy in the near future. I have a few decks but I always seem to come back to the dredge machine. Thinking about piloting this list into a meta that has a few Land's players and a few miracles players and at least 1-2 D&T players. 3 storm players too. Need some board suggestions. Here's what i got so far. I am going for the flayer kill game 1 because avoiding the attack phase seems smart.
Lands/Ramp:16
4x Cephalid Colosseum
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Confluence
4x LED
Creatures:24
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Golgari Grave Troll
4x Narcomeba
4x Ichorid
4x Golgari Thug
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
Spells: 20
3x Careful Study
4x Faithless Looting
2x Dread Return
3x Breakthrough
4x Bridge From Below
4x Cabal Therapy
Board:
2x Firestorm
3x Lotus Petal
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Iona
2x Dark Blast
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Chain Vapor
Flayer requires 1 more dread return and 1 grisel. You wont get enough creatures in the gy otherwise.
Should I be running flamekin instead? I feel like I've been able to get the kill with flayer relatively easy in my testing by using the second DR on him. So he smacks for 9 over the 2 dread returns, because that's a GGT animation of only 11 in theory. Is that common knowledge to run gris in flayer strategy?
If you wanna flayer you wanna run something like 2 flayer 3 dread, so you can easily flayer into golgari into sac flayer for enought burst.
You can also run Grisel instead of a flayer because you should still be able to dredge into it if grisel appears and you get way more burst out of GGT, btw you may need an extra turn in order to setup the board because you will need like 9 creatures in order to fire all your dreads.
Btw i just find better to run grisel as the DR target, ofc if your meta run a good number of prisons you have to play some solutions, but i think 1/2 grisel into ashen rider should work better in general, they are all ichorid pitch if needed and usually you dont have to remove more than 2 pieces in order to win G1, considering you still have a turn 3/4 clock.
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
Went 6-3 in the gp, lost the last match because i was a moron and kept a hand of 2 cephalid coliseum, 3 faithless looting, 1 ichorid, 1 cabal therapy.
If theres interest i can write up a tournament report with my sideboarding each match
Congrats! I am interested in reading your report.
DDD / Death & Taxes
Same, as someone still learning the deck, the more tournament reports, especially those with sideboarding discussion are greatly appreciated.
I really wanted to attend the GP, but I didn't have a ride or a hotel room, so I'm just rooting for my friend Elliot who managed to make day 2.
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
Ill write it up when i get home (wednesday or so)
Immfairly certian i made several mistakes in sideboarding.
I ended up finishing at X-3 as well. Oddly enough I only lost 2 games to sideboard cards, literally every other game/match I lost due to having to mulligan to 4-5, I died on turn 2 to show and tell, or not hitting a narcomoeba after forcing through a massive breakthrough dredge. I'm really glad that I played a flame-kin in the main because of how much show and tell and infect that I ran into, I had to race quite often. Other than that the deck preformed just as one would expect. I even managed to beat D&T when they drew a RIP, two thalia, and a containment priest which I was quite proud of and beat show and tell with the mediocre beats through triple cage thanks to hard cast ichorid giving me a giant army before he assembled a win. Dredge is officially my favorite deck to play since I started the game with necropotence way back in the day.
I would keep the first hand against Miracles only, but yeah, pretty sucky hand. The second hand I'd keep if I'm on the draw (DDD into Breakthrough can be good enough).
@thread
So guys, I've also jumped the Petal/Decay sideboard train. It's awesome, thanks for sharing. My latest list:
4 Mana Confluence
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 City of Brass
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
SB: 3 Firestorm
SB: 3 Lotus Petal
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Wispmare
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Dread Return
SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 City of Brass
As much as I love Darkblast, I don't feel it's strong utility/dredging to justify running over the 13th Land main. Also, Sneak and Show isn't prevalent in my meta, making Ashen Rider not that necessary, so I decided to add Elesh Norn to deal with Elves (and to help the lack of Darkblast).
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Hey guys
wow jersey was bonkers!
never been to anything that size ever.
sorry this is a poor tourney report, as its mostly a blur in my mind. i do remember game changing moments and thoughts on how i wish i ran a different sb.
i run basic maindeck with grisel and fkz 2 dr in main.
sb'd
3x abrupt decay
3x nature's claim
3x firestorms
2x fothb
1x iona
1x elesh
there were only a few instancea where i resolved 1 claim and 1 decay that flipped the game in my favor. The rest of the time just me flipping into half my gy and resolving triggers and zombie hordes crushing my opponents.
went 4-3 lost games were do to lack of experience and my "yolo" mulling. It went ok but bad goldfishing habits where I just kept god hands to combo off t1-t2 when they seemed to hold the hate. I was nervous and a bit reckless I will admit.(rookie mistake)
went 4-3, and most of my matches went 3 games. very experienced players. i got most wins when on play. lotus petals allowed me to bust out turn one like gangbusters. destroyed many dreams of grandeur and got my ass handed to me a few times over rookie mistakes and bad mulls.
dropped out at 7th round
cards that wrecked me:
t2 scavenging ooze.
game 2 an elf deck gets 3 drs's active by t3. we both had a laugh at me looking for narcs and ichorids for my therapies with 20+ cards in gy..wtf?!..dumb luck. i crushed him on the play overwhelming and therapied his hand away
got taken down by grafdiggers cage and no answers to a sneak attack emrakul for games 2 and 3.
It looked like reanimator but turned out to be sneak show as i resolved a couple therapies and missed on calling reanimate.
I just hate, hate, hate chalice of the void...playing vs affinity. crushed him t1, then mulled out of game 2 then faced an unanswered chalice t1 as i kept 4 cards with an ancient grudge but no way to bin it before 2 cranial platings on ornithopters wrecked me.
Faced a good jeskai stoneblade deck. he consistently blew my bridges and cruised into rips g1 and g3.. countered pretty much everything i tried to play. he just drew like a champ.
all in all i had a blast playing dredge. nobody knows what to do or what the hell I'm doing. they just scramble to blow up the grave.
I need practice on the blind calls with therapy.
In the future I'm contemplating 4 petals and 4 decays in for g2 and 3 when facing permission, D&T and affinity decks. 2 ashen riders for pretty much everything else.
i wanted to run fothb incase i faced elephant grass moat, or that turbofog guy or an energy field type permission deck. all of which can easily be handled with ashen rider. ...leave the fothb for style points in local meta but not reliable for tourneys this size.
alot of times i wish i had thoughtseize or unmasks. still hit n miss 50% on blind therapies.
I'm definitely hooked on dredge for life. gonna get more experience with it and hope to perform better next big event.
also on a quick note,, a spectator was watching a good game where a youngster piloting manaless deck botched a nether shadow trigger putting an ichorid in play before triggering the nether shadow into play, dropping the creature count to 2 above his shadow. they both missed it.
the spectator politely reminded him and then apologized for interrupting and introduced himself as "Hollywood."
Thanks Hollywood for watching out for our fellow dredge brethren.
what i learned.. dredge can carry a mediocre player half way but its experience that carries them to tops.
good times
I played the old Feldman 'dredge-fu' list for quite a long time when that article was newer (The tribe-imp version pre-looting with a sb of Leyline/Firestorm/Winds of Change/A couple of DR targets/No anti hate) and I had a decent amount of success with it.
Siding in answers to hate just feels so wonky and I really like the philosophy of just trying to play through it or avoid it. If you think the meta has too much of it then pick a different deck.
This isn't the same thing as playing oops all spells because dredge is more resilient in other ways.
His logic for playing PImp in the sideboard was that Ichorids are too slow against combo and you need to board in something that speeds you up. I guess he's off the winds of change plan with this version because you still need creatures for therapy/DR to eat but if he's only boarding out the 3 Ichorids I don't know what he's cutting for the 4th imp. I do share some of your concern that with no imp maindeck you might be strained for ichorid food but I haven't played the LED/Looting version so I'm not sure how much of an issue this is.
I like the synergy he mentions with Griselbrand/Firestorm and Reveillark sounds pretty interesting, I'll definitely give this version a try once exams are over.
I went 6-3 at GP NJ. I got wrenched by 2 Sneak & Show and DnT. Idk that I could have played any differently at least in the matches that I lost. I pretty much ran the same 75 as my win in Oakland although I think I might want to add a 2nd Ashen Rider to combat Sneak in the future. At least the weekend was not lost as I got to spend a good amount of time in New York City as I only attended the event site on Saturday.
Yeah, this is the part that confuses me the most. My local meta is apparently really hostile towards graveyards, so I kind of feel like I just need to shelve the deck for a while. I had to play through Leylines in four games, which seems utterly brutal. I agree that I like the idea of not siding in anti-hate - it makes dredges look soooo bad sometimes. :-\
Is the consensus lately for Petals-Decays, or is there still a group saying to not worry about it and try and just play through the hate? I may just not understand how to board or how to play through hate, so that may just be what I'm not getting right. If I board into Decays/Nature's Claims/Chain of Vapors, am I supposed to mull into these, or does it just expand my range of keepable hands past needing a dredger, draw, discard outlet?
I'd like to learn how to play the deck more proficiently, but I'm not sure if I'm supposed to try to adapt to people having 4-8 things that cold me, or if I should just wait a while and try again when people stop boarding to obliterate the Dredge and Tin Fins players in the room.
Sorry that this is kind of ramble-y.
There will be hate. alot of decks cripple to specific brands of hate. bloodmoon vs most decks is basically game over. bummer to have faced that many lotv. I saw it once the whole weekend while playing vs Seth in a mirror match during a grinder. he mulled for it 3 times then dropped it g3 for the win.
if you blow them out g1 then try again g2 try not sbing. if they hate, then game 3 ,def try to add mana options and mull into at least one answer. the sb cards mess up the natural flow so slow dredge will be the plan.
in the tournament, i drew into this hand: looting, golgari troll, stinkweed imp, petal, breakthrough, led, mana confluence.
decided to keep on game 3. flipped half my deck only 2 therapies and no dr but hit 2 bridges. ended turn 1 with a modest 4 zombies and lots of potential. we were both suprised i couldnt finish. It was his day, or i should went for the planned sb strategy and ignored the temptation of the perfect hand.
he casts grafdiggers cage and I do nothing but attack. he plays dark rit and red for sneak attack emrakul.
if i kept a natures claim. maybe i could have blown the sneak attack or been able to ashen rider the emrakul.
can't win em all but its our game to lose.
maybe thought seize or unmask is our answer but sometimes we get caught just like everyone else.
we're still winning at 75%+ for most matches. mulling and sb takes practice.
run sideboarded match practice to get better.
goldfishing isnt good experience. imo
When starting to play legacy I was told that it takes 9 months to a year to know your deck. then experience will win your games.
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