Rancor doesn't flip Delver, for starters.Originally Posted by KobeBryan
Don't fixate on Berserk. The specific card isn't important. My issue with Death's Shadow is that it doesn't have evasion and doesn't represent much of a threat unless you're very nearly dead.
I've tried to make Death's Shadow work. It just doesn't. Especially in an environment where Lightning Bolt is played a lot. If you want cheap conditional beaters, I'd recommend you first look at Hidden Gibbons and Hidden Herd. Both have no serious drawback concerning your own deckbuilding, so they should be easy to fit into any UBG list.
This new UWR Acendency deck is a pain. It is everywhere on MODO, I run the Stifle version most of the time but Stifle/Wasteland combo just fuels there Cruises. You have to have an early threat that sticks or else it is GG. Plus dealing with Fatestitcher is limited to Disfigure/Grafdiggers Cage. They draw a ridiculous amount of cards and quickly out pace you. And when you are ready to cruise it feels almost too late. Anyone else have experience with this MU? With it being the "new" thing it might be hear to stay.
Exactly. If you have some weird combo that can make a 9/9 DS early and then exploit it for the win, well that's a weird combo no doubt but it's happening in a context that might mean something in most Legacy games. With Stiflenought you have a similarly bad set of dependencies in this meta (Abrupt Decay does DS just as surely as it does dreadnought after you've invested whatever else in either of them) but you can also lay out a 12/12 trampler on turn 2 now and then with enough cover for it that all the opponent can do is draw twice and scoop.
The Thoughtseize build is much harder to most forms of combo, but I imagine that Stifle would be crazy against Ascendancy - they've got tons of relevant activated and triggered abilities, Fatestitcher is vulnerable to DRS, they're frequently hard up on mana when they go off, so Stifling a loot trigger can often stall them out. Postboard, you have Grip, Pyromancer, Faerie Conclave, and Ascendancy are all vulnerable to Golgari Charm, Cage and Surgical/Extirpate stop Fatestitcher, we're pretty hard to REB, and on, and on. I really can't see that matchup being anything but favorable for both builds of the deck. The thing I fear most out of UWR is SFM into Sword of Feast and Famine, and Ascendancy decks can't do that. They can draw all the cards they want if none of them kill us, and the deck isn't very scary without Ascendancy.
Guys i ve recenty switch with this deck and im having problems beating jace(miracles matchup) and elves(in spite of having 1x darkblast maindeck). Some advice!?
Elves - Toxic Deluge, engineered Plague, Perish, Disfigure, golgari charm
Miracles - Zur's Weirding, Spell Snare, Pithing Needle, stifle deck build
Those cards will wreck them.
Against Elves you just overload on removal postboard while boarding out anything that feels clunky or doesn't line up well with their deck (like Daze). My general plan is -4 Daze, -1 Treasure Cruise, +2 Golgari Charm, +2 Disfigure, +1 Grafdigger's Cage. It's not an impossible matchup, but it is more difficult than average.
Miracles is one of the deck's better matchups. As I've said before here, I usually only lose when I try to get cute and fight over things other than Jace and Entreat. Sometimes they board Counterbalance out against us, and that's fine because it lets you let them resolve small Entreats (1-2 angels) without having to worry about the race. My boarding is usually along the lines of -4 Daze, -2 Wasteland, +1 Maelstrom Pulse, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Sylvan Library, +2 Divert, as the thing you're going to spend the most resources on is counterwars. Grip hits Top, Pulse kills Jace (or lets you clean up an entreat), Sylvan is almost always gg if you get to keep it around because it essentially turns their Swords into card advantage and means that any Delver you play after untapping with Sylvan is going to flip. It's the best card in the matchup. I've seen some people board Force out against Miracles; this is incorrect. Against an opponent with only 4-8 wincons (usually 5-6), the game is just about stopping those wincons.
Some builds run creatures, but your creatures are substantially better. DRS is effectively a counter for the half of Snapcaster Mage you care about, and Stoneforge Mystic isn't a threat. Postboard, the SFM builds might have Sword of Feast and Famine, which is a rare relevant card. Save a Decay for it if possible, but these versions of Miracles usually leave Counterbalance in and also bring in Rest in Peace to attempt to overload your removal. The best answer here is to board in Golgari Charm to handle the enchantments. I still run 2-3 Thoughtseize main and it's very strong here because again there are so few relevant cards.
elves is HARD. the best way to do it would be to double delver them. take out daze, bring in your creature removals Best to do as follows. Kill symbiote as first priority. Then heritage druid. Grafdiggers and maybe spell pierce
miracles. here is the trick. People board OUT counterbalance, which i don't know why they would. You board out 2 abrupt decays because its pretty useless. take out a wasteland. Take out daze. Board in spell pierce, 1 golgari charm, vendilion clique and whatever else you have. people usually have library and maybe a creeping tarpit, and krosan grip. Bring in nulls and pithing needle. Do not counter his creature removal, even terminus. You have enough shuffle effects to move it back to the top. Counter his entreat and jace. Don't overextend with creatures.
Good luck.
Envelop is really good against both Elves and Miracles. If those two lists are giving you a lot of trouble put an Envelop or 2 in the sideboard and it will counter the spells that are going to kill you most of the time. Elves is really hard anyway. It's the list that convinced me that BUG Delver was weak against tribal.
I personally run stifle build. What do you do when you have counterbalance on the stack(with top in play) and your hand reads : Fow tarmo land cruise cruise? ( I have no board position)
I used fow piching cruise and i lost to jace few turns later. was it a mistake? cheers
Why do you bring in pierces against elves? Most of the time they have plenty of mana to pay for it. Cheers
I lost to it with a darkblast main and 1 sb
Here is my list against the italian meta. Looking to beat miracles, Elves, Ur Delver, Jeskai Stoneblade
18
LANDS
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
12 CREATURES
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
29 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Ponder
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
1 Dimir Charm
1 DarkBlast
SIDEBOARD
1 DarkBlast
2 Chill
2 Spell Pierce
2 FlusterStorm
2 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Peething Needle
2 Krosan Grip
1 Sylvan Library
1 Jace The Mind Sculptor
Some Advice for make my sideboard and/or main deck better? Thanks
I was under-performing against Elves and D&T with 4 Abrupt Decay, 2 Golgari Charm, 2 Disfigure, Darkblast, Toxic Deluge and Dimir Charm in the mix after sideboarding. There's only so much you can do with your SB against tribal. I was having problems with Merfolk also.
I seriously considered Marsh Casualties as an option because it left my unflipped Delvers alive. I thought about Engineered Plague, which is just a turn too slow against Elves and a bit too expensive against D&T's varied creature base. Massacre is too slow against Elves, very hard to resolve against Merfolk and D&T alone is not worth the slot. Pernicious Deed is too slow against everybody but Merfolk.
It's just an ugly process trying to turn 3 colors that have no direct damage and no damage-based cheap sweepers into an effective list against a tribal gauntlet. Hidden Gibbons would have been just as bad, because 26 creatures is way too many to manage with the kind of removal suite BUG brings to the table.
Engineered Explosives for 0?
In short, yes, that's the wrong play. Most Miracles players will let you Cruise and frequently can't stop it even when they want to. Let them have CounterTop, then untap and try to Cruise into Abrupt Decay. If you topdeck a Ponder or Brainstorm, fire it off first to see if there's a Decay in the top 3. You've got basically no other targets for Decay, and some major targets for Force.
I think that your postboard Curve is high for only 18 lands. Especially against Miracles where you'll likely board at least one Wasteland out. Jace is extremely expensive, is really only good against Miracles, and should probably be another Sylvan Library. Is there a lot of Burn in your meta, or are the Chills just for UR Delver? I like a Maelstrom Pulse/K.Grip split in the board because Pulse can answer Planeswalkers and token swarms even though it's not as good against Batterskull. Do you not have any Reanimator or Dredge in your meta? One Cage seems like not enough. Finally, 4 Cruise is at least one too many.
Tnx for the advice. One more question: what's the reasoning behind siding out 1 wasteland against miracles!? I thought mana denial plan expecially first few turns is still something profitable, expecially if you get them off red(volcanic islands).
Cheers
The odds on resolving a 1cc spell with Counterbalance on the board are fairly low. If they have top out they're nil.
The order of priority for Force of Will against Miracles is 1) Sensei's Divining Top at all costs, 2) Counterbalance if you're not holding the Abrupt Decay in hand when it's on the stack and then 3) whatever is going to kill you if it resolves, in that order. Because top will find them 2 and 3 in a hurry and you'll never stop 3 once top and CB are on the board.
Interesting. I played Uwr Delver with a decent success expecially against miracles. I consider countering sensei's divining top a mistake. ( I only counter sensei if i am in a denail plan or i have multiple fow in my hand). You can't counter everything so is better saving your Fows for spells that if resolved you are certain to loose the game.
However I remember one time piloting miracles and loosing against a bug delver player after he countered my turn 1 top and empting his hand on the board. I consider his play fairly risky and I prefer playing one threat a time. Thoughts?
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