Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
That, or go for a Thought Scour/Mental Note into DTT route.
I think that the answer will be"there's no trouble with maindecking REBs, it's similar to maindecking Swords to Plows" to which some different user will answer "but we're not talking about efficient answers to efficient threats, we're talking about the fact that Brainstorm is too powerful for Legacy" which will be answered by "it's not too powerful, as it makes only 70% of metagame and BS deck make 70 % of top8, so the meta is balanced" to which the answer will be heard that sounds like "there are no BS decks, you cannot mix stomr, miracles and tempo into one bracket" to which someone responds with "this is irrelevant, as long as the blue cantrip based decks play the similar and thus bring the ever the same boring repetetive experience" which will be answered by "Brainstrom allows more distinct archetypes than it suppresses and thus it in fact increases strategical diversity" to whom someone answers that "dude, talk more about strategical diverstiy, when was the last time we've seen Zoo/Mav/Loam in top8?" that provokes a response "lol, u mad bro, pet dek viable no more?" which will be answered by thunder of hooves.Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
Maybe you mean SnT/Sneak/Reanimator? Last time I checked these 3 are in the top 10 Decks to Beat while ANT is somewhere in the top 20. Reanimator is the most consistent/redundant combo deck. You can basically just draw + discard and all you need is a reanimate. Not to mention the deck is fully equipped with free counterspells. ANT is more fragile as it needs to chain spells to win and this makes ANT more susceptible to hate bears/taxing effects and even counterbalance. ANT didn't have an Oops I Win! card which is Show and Tell.
How much important is storms virtual CA made by zero creatures? While not every deck packs an amout of removal similar to Pox, most of the decs still got a card or two that might be a liability once they need to answer/prevent the game winning AdN or PiF.
Except for combo, no decks packs less than 4 removal (often times many more) and quite some other tools to win in red zone (say Jitte or w/e). These are dead draws against storm combo, while they might do something against Reanimator/SnT.
Is the virtual CA important? I guess... not really, but maybe I'm wrong. Thinking of the usual dudes that jump of the grave/hand (Emrakul, Griselbrand, what else?), removal doesnt really matter, right?
Alrights many more removal spells and tools which are dead against storm combo. Swords, Bolt, A. Decay? You can use plow on your creature much like Healing Salve and gain life. You use bolt on the storm player to decrease his/her Ad Nauseam draws and Abrupt Decay can target artifact sources. Have you StP'd Griselbrand or Iona lately and did they die? Emrakul has protection from spells so he's excused.
I'm not hating on Show and Tell and Reanimator. I have those decks built and I have 8 japanese foil Griselbrands. My ANT deck isn't pimped out, it still looks the same way since 2009. I'm just pointing things out.
every deck has it's weakness, the same Zoo (yeah Zoo because there is no competitive deck that routinelly loses to Ant due to 0 interaction) loses to Ant T3 most time not having a any counterspells, Ant loses to Thalia T2 most time not having a any removal spell, Belcher vs. Miracles, Miracles vs. 12post, Lands vs. Zoo ... I see nothing wrong here, you have Sb to interact and can hate out every deck if you really want to, but if you need to balance out all relevant MU you'll always have good and bad MUs OMG just accept it... why you people always want a super deck (just play edh ;)... in fact non-U vs. combo interaction has vastly improved latest years in ANT case resulting into very stupid and unfunny roulette gameplay
btw there are NO answers to Ant only a threat for it, despite the name it's not a creature
//
all the same again, just know your stuff, play well and stop crying
People don't want the best deck. They don't want to play against ever the same cards, either.
I don't think cry, so I cannot stop crying. What I stopped, though, is playing MtG at tournaments ever since the Legacy's pool narrowed to roughly 10-20 playsets of cards, generic blue rare lands excluding.
Time to say goodbye.
I think that in my post-MKM world, there's hardly anything that Source may offer to me, and what I may offer in return. Expect to see me less and less, esp. now when my "collection" shrank to less than 300 cards.
Please, don't be sad that I'm leaving. Everything nice has come to an end. And I swear that time from time I may show up the Can Thrash thread and maybe bring some enlightened analysis on how things go in Terrageddon department.
Otoh, it's pretty understandable that the neverending stream of insane blue prints has a demoralzing effect on anybody who doesn't want to play with/against blue only. Not that the color identity matters, etc.
I cannot comment on this, I lack tools to distinguish quality posts from the crappy ones. Also, I realized I don't really care anymore.
But then everybody is cornered somehow. You also sold Lands stuff and Painter stuff and who knows what else. It's not like you realistically can have everything and there's not even any reason to do so, because you got one head and two hands only and cannot play more than one deck at a particular moment.
The last straw was SotF ban, although I realized that only after a years. The message that WotC gives is pretty clear: "we don't want non-blue to have similarly powerful strategies like blue" and I once again guess that this might be a bit too demoralizing for anyone trying to do anything remotely interesting/viable in non-blue colors. It's not like it's impossible (see all the GB and RG Dark Depths decks, or DnT or younamethedeck), but it' still pretty obvious that the gap between blue and the rest will only increase, as the WotC cannot for the lives of them come with anything else than cheap blue draw and manipulation, while they desperately need good creatures to make blue not suck in limited. Hence what we see. Leave the "something something learn to metagame, something something brew moar" comment right here.
This turned Legacy (in roughly a past year or two) into a pathetic format (and yeah, I really don't give fuck about 40 000 ppl at GP, none of them increased MY FUN even a bit), a format I don't really enjoy anymore. Part of what made it appealing was the ability to play literally anything and still have a chance for 2-2, but these times are long gone; trigger of the "underdeveloped metagame" jazz in 5, 4, 3...
You know... I played 5CG for Top8 finish at fifty+ men tourney; Five Fucking Colour Green, the deck with River Boas, Maros, Incinerates, WOrbs, Quirion Rangers and crapload of bad Mirage-block lands.
I played UGw Thresh with three Mystic Enforcers and won the mirror cause I had one more bigass badass Enforcer than the Budějovice-based guy.
I played Faerie Stompy and won against Storm after mulling to four.
I played Dredge through horrid heaps of Crypts.
I 6:0ed Najáda's opening tourney with ANT.
I'm fed up. I won enough.
The losses also count. There are only so many defeats a man can stand, and I simply cannot stand the losses anymore (neither I can stand the wins, though).
The nowadays Legacy is unbearable, and the matches are extremely mechanic and anticlimactic. Every time I tap the Delver for the last time, or become stopped by CB/top, or get eaten by [insert dude] or Bolt someone's face, I ask myself "is this what you want from life?"
So forgive me if I find it irritating that some random dickhead tells me over the web what should I do with my life so that I'm more succesfull in a futile activity with children's pictorial game. Moreover I cannot stand the fucking jargon of "pretty well positioned" and "that's not where you wanna be", the OCD atmosphere of usual local gaming club - btw anyone who's honestly asking why MtG isn't spectators' sport should watch a game of Magic with all the shuffles and such... if at least the dudes took a rabbit out of an opera hat -, and due to the years I spent next to junkies, I simply cannot stand 90 % of what forms a usual MtG community, MtG player, MtG evening.
So I cornered myself? And what? I realized that I'm too old for this, so I kept the one deck I may grasp with my two hands, in case I'd ever return to the game - which, seeing the WotC's (not exactly recent) obsession is pretty unlikely. Moreover, if I'd wanted to play Vintage-like format, I could have played the very Vintage for years, right? There's no reason to bother myself with Vintage-lite that Legacy slowly turns into, as it's becoming a format based around several central strategies supported/fed by a small subset of cards.
That process of cornering myself was pretty relieving. For the last years I was simply unable to make anything reasonable with my stuff, and most of the time I was overwhelmed by the possibilities. Combine that with all of the above aspects and you might picture me sitting with my pile of cardboard heroin, unable to do anything with that and saying to myself "fuck that, I'll just play Thresh" each Thursday after Thursday after Thursday.
Enter chase rares and rare's chases, etc., all that stuff. That's not where I wanna be. That's not how I'm going to position myself.
I work for roughly 230 hours a months and I'm trying my best to raise three children and make my wife's life easier, my grandparents are sick, poor and lonely, especially considering that my father's mum lives afield and alone for years, and my mother's dad just became a widower, as grandma passed away last week; my parents... well, I think you already heard at least about my father, right?
I still got my one deck left and then an unsorted heap of crap I'm too busy to do something about. Maybe I'll brew with the pile, this might be a good idea. Right after I finish another batch of night-shift overtimes.
/off fucking topic
Last edited by Bed Decks Palyer; 06-13-2015 at 03:15 AM.
That has always been the case since thedojo days. People want to play the winningest deck. The meta changes everytime and of course you have to adapt. You can either copy the list that won an SCG open or improvise and think outside the box.
My favorite deck is BUG control, very powerful. It gets hosed by Blood Moon and Choke and I scoop everytime I can't answer it. This is just an example of how players can adapt. But most would rather copy the next big thing. Brainstorm, Delver, TNN and Miracle decks are strong but not the end of the world strong.
So, turning every combo deck into a graveyard dependent looting deck is your anticipated solution to banning brainstorm? Seems like a great idea!!
Back on topic, please. Thanks. -zilla
Is high tide the deck that would most likely abuse mind's desire, or do you think such an unbanning would spawn a new storm deck?
I would think any storm deck would abuse Mind's Desire. I played around with TPS in MTGO Vintage and it is absolutely bonkers it creates so much extra gas to kill someone with.
It would spawn a new Storm deck, though it would be very similar. Ad Nauseam does not work with desire, and almost all the current storm decks run it. Once they take out Ad Nauseam for desire then the low CC requirement on the deck gets thrown out, and it gets re-built with 4 desires in mind needing less cantrips and more gas/business spells. This might make the deck faster or slower, but it definitely increases redundancy making it much more consistent.
though double blue is an awkward mana requirement, you could just play TES with Desire in the sb as a Wish target. something like ANT could just run X number of Desires, since they have basics, instead of Ad Nauseam. I don't think any of these decks would necessarily be new, though.
High Tide & ritual decks can play the card, I assume it is faster and more consistent going the ritual route. Mind's Desire into Mind's Desire is the reason why it would spawn a new deck and probably the reason it will never be unbanned, unless it gets errata'd. WotC just placed a nail on the coffin when they printed Dig Through Time.
I know mind into mind is the most broken reason, but the high mana cost makes me think it might be unbannable. Seems like a slower but maybe more consistent combo engine than in ANT currently. I could be wrong but seems like TES wouldn't want it, they are too fast. I guess it would be just giving blue another toy, though.
this
5 is not high in the right deck
More U = evil demagogy?
People say that, but let's say you're going off with a Mind's Desire deck. How much storm do you need in order to win?
The cmc is 6, 4UU.
Edit: This is a crazy idea, maybe a blue post deck that desires into Eldrazi?
What about adding it to a DD shell? I'm not very familiar with the deck, but it seems like resolving DD after desire would pretty much be auto win.
Last edited by cogitoergosum; 12-13-2014 at 04:52 PM.
depends on your decks # of kill conditions, and the # of cards left in the deck and, but properly built 5-6 should be enough to either hit desire#2 or a kill card most of the time.
If you have gone through 14 cards (not that hard on turn 3 with fetches and cantrips), have 3 desires and 3 cards that can kill your opponent (say 2 tendrils and an Emrakul, because desiring out an eldrazi would be fun) then with a storm count of 5 you should have just over a 50% chance of hitting something to keep going, and that is not counting hitting more gas with cantrips/a tutor to go off again that way.
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