[Primer/Deck] Pox

[draugr]

The extra lands has a bonus purpose. Sideboarding ease. It's fine to side out 2 swamps when your manabase is really thick. What's more, Mono B Poxers still need to be wary of Wasteland enemies who target their Factories and Urborgs.

In fact, if my enemies ran more Land Destruction than the usual Wasteland setups, I'd probably consider ditching Mishra's and going the Chimeric Idol route. I almost miss that thing since it's far easier to disrupt and attack with Idol than Mishra's which eats up two mana to attack. However, the 24 mana base gives me a solid growth of lands. I will play to 6 lands, but I only have space for 1 Big Pox and 3 Prison cells: Night of Soul's Betrayal, Engineered Plague (totally worth 1 maindeck), and Trinisphere.

I thought everyone forgot about Chimeric Idol, I miss the thing too! However, I think Cursed Scroll is too good of a card to have in MD and it doesn't interact well with the Idol :-(

[beez]

I thought everyone forgot about Chimeric Idol, I miss the thing too! However, I think Cursed Scroll is too good of a card to have in MD and it doesn't interact well with the Idol :-(

I had Chimeric Idol in my first Pox build. It's good not to forget about cards. You never know when their time might come to be useful again based on metagame changes. Don't sleep on Haunted Plate Mail either. I like a singleton of that one too in MBP.

[OmniStrata]

I had Chimeric Idol in my first Pox build. It's good not to forget about cards. You never know when their time might come to be useful again based on metagame changes. Don't sleep on Haunted Plate Mail either. I like a singleton of that one too in MBP.

I too had Gamera statue [lol] in my first Pox build. It'd replace both Mishra's and Scroll. Without Liliana, Cursed Scroll actually becomes harder to use and the original Pox thread stated that it's not a good Win Con due to the price. I have to admit, 3 mana and a single card in hand to deliver just 2 consistent damage is asking a lot, but Liliana makes it succeed. 3 cmc shocks... eww...

Damn, now I'm tempted to try it if my meta had no 2 toughness threats lol.

[coricho]

I too had Gamera statue [lol] in my first Pox build. It'd replace both Mishra's and Scroll. Without Liliana, Cursed Scroll actually becomes harder to use and the original Pox thread stated that it's not a good Win Con due to the price. I have to admit, 3 mana and a single card in hand to deliver just 2 consistent damage is asking a lot, but Liliana makes it succeed. 3 cmc shocks... eww...

Damn, now I'm tempted to try it if my meta had no 2 toughness threats lol.

I've had good result with Cursed Scroll as a wincon and with liliana
the board control is great. Scroll a small creature, tick lily up.
Scroll to the face, tick lily down a big creature
Scroll at upkeep if need be, before the draw if you have a card in hand and don't want to reveil the wrong card.

And with Night of Souls' Betrayal it's even better.
NoSB may be replaced with Ensnaring bridge or Trinisphere/void if NoSB is not a lock appropriate for the matchup.

[zenitramleirdag]

I've had good result with Cursed Scroll as a wincon and with liliana
the board control is great. Scroll a small creature, tick lily up.
Scroll to the face, tick lily down a big creature
Scroll at upkeep if need be, before the draw if you have a card in hand and don't want to reveil the wrong card.

And with Night of Souls' Betrayal it's even better.
NoSB may be replaced with Ensnaring bridge or Trinisphere/void if NoSB is not a lock appropriate for the matchup.

i am currently not main decking any void/sphere effects, i've relegated them in the sideboard for the combo matchup..my current build is more geared towards TC delvers which are running rampant lately, hence the maindeck NoSB, a plague and spinning darkness..are you also on mono black?

[coricho]

i am currently not main decking any void/sphere effects, i've relegated them in the sideboard for the combo matchup..my current build is more geared towards TC delvers which are running rampant lately, hence the maindeck NoSB, a plague and spinning darkness..are you also on mono black?

Yes I am on mono black.
I play your typical Reid Duke list and run two NoSB + one plague mainboard as well.
I sometime swap the plague for an actual Pox (5th smallpox)
I have 2 bridge and 2 trinisphere +1 sphere of resistance in the board as lock piece against fatties or combo.

Spinning Darkness seems a good idea, the burn matchup is a struggle.
Do you play sinkhole?

[zenitramleirdag]

Yes I am on mono black.
I play your typical Reid Duke list and run two NoSB + one plague mainboard as well.
I sometime swap the plague for an actual Pox (5th smallpox)
I have 2 bridge and 2 trinisphere +1 sphere of resistance in the board as lock piece against fatties or combo.

Spinning Darkness seems a good idea, the burn matchup is a struggle.
Do you play sinkhole?

so's mine..2 NoSB, a lone plague, 3 innocent bloods and 2 spinning darkness(i have another one in the board) in the main..

3 spinning darkness and 2 trinispheres in my 75 improved my burn and delver match-up a lot..i suggest you give SD a shot, you wont regret it, its ability is so relevant in a meta crawling with RDW and delver variants..not to mention its also strong against other decks like DnT, merfolk and maverick..

yes, i am running sinkholes..

[OmniStrata]

I've had good result with Cursed Scroll as a wincon and with liliana
the board control is great. Scroll a small creature, tick lily up.
Scroll to the face, tick lily down a big creature
Scroll at upkeep if need be, before the draw if you have a card in hand and don't want to reveil the wrong card.

And with Night of Souls' Betrayal it's even better.
NoSB may be replaced with Ensnaring bridge or Trinisphere/void if NoSB is not a lock appropriate for the matchup.

My maindeck has Night of Souls' Betrayal AND Trinisphere. Only one 3sphere though. I didn't think it'd be that relevant late game but since I'm packing 17 land killing cards, I can keep someone below 4 lands almost indefinitely.

People tend to use Liliana incorrectly in my opinion. One person I observed had her put 2 creatures in one pile and all the land in another (8 land). You should almost NEVER have an 'all lands' pile with her (unless you're winning so hard that that's the only permanent they control ). I would have put as close to half as I can. For instance, 2 creatures and 3 basics, and then the non-basics in another pile.

Against my friend who uses Crucible of Worlds, I will put the crucible in one pile and all the lands/permanents in the rest. He'll go ahead and sac everything except the crucible and that helps him recover. Those are very rare circumstances however where you NEED to stop the GY enabling card. Unfortunately, I don't have any big threats due to Ensnaring Bridge in my 75.

Leyline of the Void ftw.

[OmniStrata]

Spinning Darkness seems a good idea, the burn matchup is a struggle.

For burn, your most efficient sideboard is Sun Droplet. For Black enchantments, Bloodchief Ascension is all you have I guess, unless you're aggro pox with a Basilisk Collar or Vampiric Link . I've found spinning Darkness to be better vs. creature strategies than a single Bolt detterent.

[zenitramleirdag]

@coricho
yes, sun droplet seems like another good tool we have against burn, i personally haven't tried it but many people attest to it so i suggest you also give it a shot..

[jroharo]

For burn, your most efficient sideboard is Sun Droplet. For Black enchantments, Bloodchief Ascension is all you have I guess, unless you're aggro pox with a Basilisk Collar or Vampiric Link . I've found spinning Darkness to be better vs. creature strategies than a single Bolt detterent.

I run Zuran Orb, personally.

[Jo11ygrnreefer]

Why don't you guys play Choke in this deck?

[pettdan]

Why don't you guys play Choke in this deck?

It's not very synergetic with smallpox, one of the core cards of this archetype. If the opponent has a tapped island and you have a choke in play, a resolved smallpox will not affect the opponent's gamestate landwise since he/she will sac the tapped island. It's a great card, choke, but not at its best next to smallpox.

Similarly I'd imagine that most of the opponent's duals will be blue and thus useful only once with choke in play, so wasteland may also be less usefull than ordinarily when you are wasting his non-untapping lands. Choke seems to offer an entirely parallell mana denial route to that of the pox decks. Sideboard space is better used to compensate for weak areas in the deck's defenses/offenses.

[Qweerios]

Is it me just being delusional or would this deck benefit from a blue splash for Treasure Cruise, and perhaps even Brainstorm and/or Daze? I can't think of a better way to fuel a TC than with cheap discard spells, Smallpox, and Liliana. TC is also a great way to stay on top of your opponent and to never let him recover.

[OmniStrata]

TC is also a great way to stay on top of your opponent and to never let him recover.

Liliana of the Veil is a great way to stay on top of your opponent and to never let him recover. Pox is too busy forcing top deck mode to be wasting a card/turn drawing cards. If you're going to delve, kill something with it (Murderous cut) or you kill your opponent REALLY FAST (Tombstalker).

Why make your deck vulnerable to most of the format's sideboard (anti-blue) when you can just let the Queen of Planeswalkers do her thing?

[Qweerios]

Liliana of the Veil is a great way to stay on top of your opponent and to never let him recover. Pox is too busy forcing top deck mode to be wasting a card/turn drawing cards. If you're going to delve, kill something with it (Murderous cut) or you kill your opponent REALLY FAST (Tombstalker).

Why make your deck vulnerable to most of the format's sideboard (anti-blue) when you can just let the Queen of Planeswalkers do her thing?

So if I get this right, if Treasure Cruise was black, you still wouldn't play it because Pox doesn't have time to spend one mana to draw 3 cards. If Pox is really good at putting both players in topdeck mode, I guess drawing 3 cards is a poor way of getting ahead.

Also, your opponents would have to be pretty bad to bring in Pyroblasts against a Pox deck only because of Treasure Cruise.

Why play Goyf in a RUG Delver deck when you can just let Delver do his thing, right?

To be honest, I would rather read a story about the relationship between Underground Seas and your mortgage than this crap.

[Blastoderm]

I was also thinking about Treasure Cruise in pox. Your graveyard seems to be huge when playing this deck. Maybe Stifle would be a good fit as well?

As of now, Pox is pretty terrible as a deck due to it feeding treasure cruise and dig through time (I mean more terrible than before). However, it does have potential if it stopped being recognized as a budget option. Add 2-3 Tabernacle, Treasure Cruise, Stifle or maybe a couple Loams / Tops to add consistency and you've got yourself a better deck.

There's no reason to restrict yourself to one color in this deck. This thread would be better off if it wasn't saturated with people who can only afford 20 swamps.

[Scott]

Is it me just being delusional or would this deck benefit from a blue splash for Treasure Cruise, and perhaps even Brainstorm and/or Daze? I can't think of a better way to fuel a TC than with cheap discard spells, Smallpox, and Liliana. TC is also a great way to stay on top of your opponent and to never let him recover.

The list below got 8th in a November SCG Invitational Qualifier in Monroeville, PA. I searched for something like it a week or two ago after a guy at my LGS said he'd been playing Pox with Cruise and that the card was nuts in it. I don't know if his blue splash was just for Cruise.

// Sorceries
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Treasure Cruise
2 Innocent Blood

// Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Stifle

// Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage

// Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Watery Grave
3 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Underground Sea
1 Rishadan Port

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Bitterblossom
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Treasure Cruise

[OmniStrata]

So if I get this right, if Treasure Cruise was black, you still wouldn't play it because Pox doesn't have time to spend one mana to draw 3 cards. If Pox is really good at putting both players in topdeck mode, I guess drawing 3 cards is a poor way of getting ahead.

Also, your opponents would have to be pretty bad to bring in Pyroblasts against a Pox deck only because of Treasure Cruise.

Why play Goyf in a RUG Delver deck when you can just let Delver do his thing, right?

To be honest, I would rather read a story about the relationship between Underground Seas and your mortgage than this crap.

If treasure cruise is the only blue card in the deck, that's kind of odd to splash for it. Just run say, Phyrexian Arena? Yes, if TC was black, I still wouldn't play it. If properly designed, your opponent could draw 50 cards and you'd be ok, not that it's possible if you're disrupting hard enough.

Yes, opponents would be bad to bring in Pyroblasts to stop only Treasure Cruise. But if you're only splashing JUST for Treasure Cruise, is 3 cards going to save you from their now useful Wastelands and Stifles? You're running fetchlands now I assume if you're splashing. I'd run more than just 1 off color card if I splash, but that's just me.

RUG Delver has Tarmogoyf as a default card. Pox does not have Treasure Cruise as a default card. You must be easily amused if you'd rather read about my mortgage.

Bottom line: I've veered away from the original "Pox" commandments in the past. "If a card doesn't disrupt my opponent, add mana, or deal damage, it shouldn't be included in Pox decks". I've splashed Green for Life from the Loam and tried White with Lingering Souls and Vindicates. Mono Black has always done better. I ran Crucible in the past as well, but I've abandoned it.

The 'if we can't beat 'em, join 'em' attitude is something I think is a bad idea. And the crap I've posted has been proven. Treasure Cruise has not been. And I don't think it ever will be due to the nature of the deck. If you're going to put faith in a splash, I'd say go Green. It's proven tested, and still testing.

Scott's post looks like a hybrid 'Tempo Thresh Pox' as it's using standard blue control cards mixed in with Black. Jace, Lili, Sinkhole, Daze, Stifle? Mana Denial blue. Brainstorms? Team America Pox? I respect that build, but the weakness to Graveyard hate is something I'd rather not have. Remember everyone, to recover from a Smallpox, you have to Brainstorm 3 times. Treasure Cruise? Well, if you draw exactly a 1 cmc creature, a land to cast said creature, and a spell. Let's not assume 1 tournament victory is the be all end all ok?

[OmniStrata]

I was also thinking about Treasure Cruise in pox. Your graveyard seems to be huge when playing this deck. Maybe Stifle would be a good fit as well?

As of now, Pox is pretty terrible as a deck due to it feeding treasure cruise and dig through time (I mean more terrible than before). However, it does have potential if it stopped being recognized as a budget option. Add 2-3 Tabernacle, Treasure Cruise, Stifle or maybe a couple Loams / Tops to add consistency and you've got yourself a better deck.

There's no reason to restrict yourself to one color in this deck. This thread would be better off if it wasn't saturated with people who can only afford 20 swamps.

With Daze, Stifle, Sinkhole, and Smallpox, you have yourself a solid Mana Denial base. The problem with splashing is a shakier mana base. I'll never say it's wrong to splash Pox. Wait, I'll say it's wrong to splash Pox, but not Smallpox decks. (BBB won't work and neither would dark ritual in a splash deck).

I will say it's wrong to be counter productive. We should not focus on recovering from our own disruption. That's what Pox/Smallpox is. We should be able to function under said disruption. Mono-B can't be budget if you're running Sinkholes, Wastelands, Liliana's, and Chains of Mephistopheles and Nether Voids etc. Granted, it's cheaper than 3 color decks, but to say it's budget just because it's mono color isn't fair to people who do shell out the cash for dem $200 pieces of black mana cardboard.

Stifle + Sinkhole makes sense. Brainstorm + Smallpox doesn't make sense. Smallpox + Daze sounds backwards as well since you're popping your own land, and THEN setting yourself back again. Liliana + Jace are the most at odds couple I've seen.

I think it'd be better card advantage wise to simply drop Smallpox and just make it UB control. Then you get to keep your own creatures, keep all your cards in hand, and amass a TON of land.