[Primer] Elves!

[Julian23]

Also, Julian, how the shiz do you beat Miracles all the time? Teach me your secrets.

That last line by Trinity is how I felt trying wacky stuff like Slaughter Games or Aetherling vs them.

[igri_is_a_bk]

what's the play?

I would tap forest and DRS and cast GSZ to find Quirion.
Activate Quirion, untap DRS. Replay Forest.
Tap forest to play Heritage.
Tap DRS, Quirion, Heritage for GGG.
Play WWS leaving GG in pool.
Activate WWS bouncing Quirion, untap DRS.
Replay Quirion with G in pool.
Activate DRS to eat an Ichorid.
Pass.

On his upkeep, activate Quirion to untap DRS.
Tap DRS for G.
Activate WWS bouncing Quirion to untap DRS.
Activate DRS to eat the other Ichorid.

You're still staring down four zombies, Narcomoeba, and he gets to dredge again. It's not great, but I think that's the best you can do here.

[danyul]

what's the play?

I was going to suggest trying to develop your mana a bit more (dropping Arbor, eating an Ichorid, pass) to GSZ for Scooze the next turn. But with 4 Zombies and 2 Ichorids to deal with, the Scooze might be too little, too late. And there's no promising that your opponent would be afraid to march some Zombies into an Arbor and risk losing his Bridges. But that's a line. I dunno man. That seems like a bad situation no matter how I look at it. Igri's play seems best since it gets rid of both Ichorids.

@Julian
I'm gonna watch that video on my phone before every Miracles match and perhaps that will give me the mojo to beat them.

[dte]

I would tap forest and DRS and cast GSZ to find Quirion.
Activate Quirion, untap DRS. Replay Forest.
Tap forest to play Heritage.
Tap DRS, Quirion, Heritage for GGG.
Play WWS leaving GG in pool.
Activate WWS bouncing Quirion, untap DRS.
Replay Quirion with G in pool.
Activate DRS to eat an Ichorid.
Pass.

On his upkeep, activate Quirion to untap DRS.
Tap DRS for G.
Activate WWS bouncing Quirion to untap DRS.
Activate DRS to eat the other Ichorid.

You're still staring down four zombies, Narcomoeba, and he gets to dredge again. It's not great, but I think that's the best you can do here.

I agree with the sequence but disagree it's that bad: he gets no ichorid, so if he does not dredge any dread return you will have 4 DRS activation before his next turn (normal untap, quirion untap, 2*wws untap) which should be enough to remove the dredgers from his grave ==> you win (he can't attack or loose the bridges and anyway you get +8 lifes/turn off DRS).

One little thing: I will rather return Nettle than Quirion during your opponent's turn: if they hit 1 cabal (with 2 you're dead), they will hit this quirion which is more necessary than nettle.

So if he does not get dread return, 2 cabals (8 more zombies) or 2 dredgers in the first 6 cards, you're most likely to win.

[Kayradis]

Is it snowing in Llanowar yet?

[Echelon]

So if he does not get dread return, 2 cabals (8 more zombies) or 2 dredgers in the first 6 cards, you're most likely to win.

It's not unheard of that Dredge-pilots don't run any Dread Returns (or targets for it) in their main. Mana-Dredge also often is rather scared of loosing their Bridges; they often refrain from attacking for too long. I would have sent my Nettle Sentinel at their face and taken it from there.

If unblocked, that's 2 free damage for us, yay. If blocked and killed, you've killed their Bridges before their Ichorids give them more tokens (when you're the one attacking, you get to stack the triggers so the Bridges'll be exiled before the get-a-zombie-triggers resolve). Remember that at the end of their draw step you can also use DRS to exile anything nasty just put in their GY's. If you see them dredge into a Cabal Therapy/Dread Return, you can always exile it then before it can do any harm.

[Shagstaman]

glad I asked...igri's line is definitely the shit.

I did what danyul suggested, and lost horribly. The thought was if I could stop a big flamekin turn and possibly block with arbor to kill bridges, I had a shot...at least I know I'm not the only one who would go with that.

turns out his next dredge hit double cabal therapy and I lost my hand, soooo yea.. I was probably screwed regardless but thanks for the replies.

[Arksz]

So I was wondering how everyone deals with the lands matchup? Three people at my local run it, along with three others playing miracles
Tabernacle and pfire get old really fast.

[starfox444]

I think at that point it's too late to try and control them since they've seen too many cards. Just gotta plan to rip NO or cradle to go for the hoof win. I think it's better to let them return ichorids and keep the hand safe from therapy. That way you at least have outs to rip.

Problem is that its awkward with having to use arbors with land drops so I think you can just be stone dead that game and not let it trouble you.

EDIT: Misread the scenario, do what igri said

[Shagstaman]

So I was wondering how everyone deals with the lands matchup? Three people at my local run it, along with three others playing miracles
Tabernacle and pfire get old really fast.

ouch.

honestly I think lands matchup depends on how fast they get a punishing fire to the hand (ie: opening hand +2)...because an active DRS should be a nightmare for them assuming they are dredging for action.

scooze provides a nightmare for them as well. They are a very slow deck (usually), so you can usually get 2-3 turns of untouched combo opportunity...I'd say if they don't have a crazy opener you should put the petal to the metal and attempt to end the game ASAP.

here are my last 2 lands experiences:
1. game 1..them on the play: mox pitching stage, mox pitching depths, cast life from the loam...play depths for turn
2. game 1..them on the play: mox pitching grove, mox pitching academy ruins, play trop, cast intuition grabbing punishing fire, ee, and life from the loam.... LOL.

I lost both matches in 2 =/

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

Have I mentioned that I hate lands?

[henweigh]

I don't know about lands, but I HATE drawing Progenitus. If you could design a fatty to replace it--you know something that fills a niche we need that's also a big guy with evasion--what would that look like?

[Lemnear]

I don't know about lands, but I HATE drawing Progenitus. If you could design a fatty to replace it--you know something that fills a niche we need that's also a big guy with evasion--what would that look like?

I hate pointless card creation threads. It sure needs some sort of Shroud and solid battle stats. I can only think of Gaea's Revenge as an existing mono-green creature fitting the requirements

[starfox444]

Matchup sucks since we can't really touch lands. Tabernacle, glacial chasm stalls enough for the 20/20 flying idiot. Either lose or play some hate in your local meta. An ok plan is aggressive NO-pro and then look for DRS to finish. It consumes so many of their resources to keep chasm active early (unless hit loam + exploration or something but hey this is a bad matchup, we have to get lucky somewhere).

I hate pointless card creation threads. It sure needs some sort of Shroud and solid battle stats. I can only think of Gaea's Revenge as an existing mono-green creature fitting the requirements

Come on man, I need to tell the world my invitational card is GG - elf 2/2 with first strike, reach and is also sylvan library.

[LeoCop 90]

Add Realm Razer in sideboard against lands ? This guy should win the game.

EDIT: i didn't realize he is a 4/2 so he can bu punishing fire'd. They can recover if they get to play two lands, i don't know if he is good enough.
However , if they punishing fire him in response to his etb ability, lands will remain exiled forever.

[Shagstaman]

wave of vitriol? luls.

and primal order. =/
(seems legit actually lol)

[Echelon]

Be careful, Lemnear might start rapping again!

[Lemnear]

Be careful, Lemnear might start rapping again!

Nah, he's buisy with Christmas stuff, holiday preps, learning iceskating with his GF, hot booze in the snow and so on. Wish you a Merry Christmas instead ;D

[Echelon]

Lol, same to you man. Good luck with the ice skating!

[Togores]

I think greas vengance is cool. Semi shroud. Castable. Haste. Wins in 3 turns like progenitus.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=222269