I was considering Ghost Quarter, since most Legacy lists I have gone over only run 3 or 4 basic land, if that. If they don't start off well, I'll be moving to a Dust Bowl build to bide time (if keeping four land in play turns out to not be an issue. )Originally Posted by draugr
Edit: This is what I'm currently planning on sleeving up. I know I have several obvious slot exclusions (Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for one), but I'm just starting to put all the pieces back together. Thanks for any input!
[29 Sorceries and Instants]
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition
3 Pox
1 Black Sun’s Zenith
1 Duress
1 Extirpate
[1 Creatures]
1 Nether Spirit
[4 Planeswalkers]
4 Liliana of the Veil
[4 Artifacts / Alt Win Conditions]
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Haunted Plate Mail
1 Powder Keg
[22 Lands]
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Ghost Quarter
16 Swamp
SB
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pithing Needle
2 Powder Keg
Last edited by zebhillard; 12-23-2014 at 04:21 AM. Reason: Added Decklist
Leyline have never been more than a nuisance, but then i don't run cursed scroll.
I like the idea of four independent win conditions, just in case of Pithing Needle/Null Rod overload. With a minimal creature build, is there anything else you would suggest?
You should add a 5th GY hate like Relic of Progenitus or Nihil Spellbomb. Should your foe inevitably destroy a Leyline, you need a way to kill whatever would make it's way into your enemy's GY till your next Leyline can hit. What I mentioned cantrips and so are my favorite GY hate #5.
Lots of cards have weird abilities that occur after they land in the yard. Leyline is the ultimate GY hater and we must not give any GY decks mercy.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
How good is plague boiler? Is just realised it is not color dependent and can be run in mono B.
If it was "You may remove all counters" I think it would be fair, but not solid. As it is, you're waiting thee turns after you play it to kill everything. I'm sure there's better ways.
Part of me wants to run a single Liliana Vess to tutor with, for the slog of midgame in case no win solutions happen to make themselves apparent. But, 5cmc and the fact that she replaces a better Liliana makes me horribly hesitant.
People are looking at this thing at the wrong context. First it nukes everything and works in mono-color and it can't be pithed on like Ratchet bomb or Powder Keg and even Pernicious Deed. What's more, it's not CMC dependent like Engineered Explosives.
"But it takes too long to go off" exclaims the ignorant people who'd recommend Pernicious Deed in a mono color deck. You are Pox and if you're dealing with Artifacts and Enchantments like Leylines or Counterbalance or what have you, the power to clear the entire board for 3 mana in 3 turns which can't be pithing needled is superior.
If you're looking for a way to kill many creatures at once, Drown in Sorrow, Mutilate, or Infest or Toxic Deluge to your heart's content. The Plague is designed to deal with things you normally can't deal with, not creature swarms. Your main deck should already be prepared to handle creatures in any case.
As for it's effectiveness, I found it superior to the Ratchet Bomb, Powder Keg, and even the old school Nevinyyral's Disk. Of course, it can be killed by Abrupt Decay, but so can everything else in Legacy really. Pithing Needle? psh yeah right. Don't use it to kill enemy pithing needles, but things like Batterskull and Swords of X&Y are great.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
Give me a hand then cause I can't find anything that generates this much card advantage for the cost and is unstoppable short of Stifle. Don't ask me to splash for Abrupt Decay cause I need to clear the field with a single card and be immune / resistant to needles, stifles, and wastelands
Last edited by OmniStrata; 12-24-2014 at 05:16 PM.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
Hi folks, what do you think about Adachi Ryousuke list who made 2nd over 140 players on 07.12.2014 :
//Instant [5]
1 Empty the Pits
4 Dark Ritual
//Sorcery [18]
1 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
1 Beseech the Queen
4 Sinkhole
4 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
//Artifact [3]
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Crucible of Worlds
//Enchantment [3]
1 The Abyss
2 Nether Void
//Land [27]
9 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Spawning Pool
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Rishadan Port
1 Cabal Pit
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Planeswalker [4]
4 Liliana of the Veil
//Sideboard
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Smokestack
1 Zuran Orb
1 Underworld Dreams
1 Engineered Plague
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Bitterblossom
I personally really like all the Legends inside :)
Time to buy me a Spawning Pool (I had my suspicions but this new LD list is amazing. Crucible Waste-lock ftw!) Empty the Pits now has my attention, I need to delve harder. The one-of Hymn feels strange though. Double Nether Voids...Instead of using Crucible, I'll probably be using more Tax fx. (Sphere of Resistance) and a one-of Ghost Quarter.
Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!
Only one Hymn to Tourach feels also strange to me I will rather play a second Beseech the Queen instead of the single Hymn to Tourach. Trinisphere can be a soft remplacement in case of lack of Neider Void. I just ordered a couple of The Abyss for my next tournament (february 2015), but I dont know yet if I will stay with my Land control deck, or if I will give a try to Pox. But with my new Abyss on the road, I will probably want to play with it ;)
Hey folks,
I was curious to see what type of mana base is required to be able to have three black mana after two draws. Meaning being able to cast a BBB spell (Pox), on a third land drop. I decided to write a script to run simulations of opening hands + 2 additional draws. The method used is to first count the number of swamps in the opening hand, then Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Each Urborg is counted once, as the card is legendary. Next, if there was an Urborg in hand, I then count the number of non-basic lands as black mana producers. After the initial 7, I draw a card, and evaluate that card. Note that if the initial hand had no Urborg, and the first drawn card is an Urborg, then previous non-basics in the opening hand are NOT retroactively counted as black mana producers, since a player couldn't have known that information from an initial draw of cards.
With that said, here are some numbers for 23, 24, and 25 lands. The horizontal values increase with number of Urborg, the vertical values increase with the number of non-basics. The remainder cards are taken to be swamps. Note that this is NOT initial 7 draw, but rather the expected black mana for initial draw + 2 additional draws. Excuse the shitty formatting of the tables.
23 Lands
0 1 2 3 4
0 3.450 3.450 3.428 3.386 3.341
1 3.304 3.318 3.310 3.284 3.234
2 3.144 3.184 3.195 3.178 3.157
3 2.998 3.053 3.077 3.076 3.058
4 2.849 2.915 2.954 2.969 2.964
5 2.698 2.775 2.829 2.861 2.867
6 2.549 2.650 2.715 2.757 2.772
7 2.402 2.514 2.598 2.657 2.684
8 2.246 2.385 2.477 2.541 2.581
24 Lands
0 1 2 3 4
0 3.606 3.600 3.580 3.537 3.488
1 3.457 3.468 3.458 3.436 3.399
2 3.299 3.332 3.352 3.329 3.298
3 3.150 3.192 3.219 3.222 3.209
4 2.996 3.070 3.111 3.121 3.114
5 2.850 2.935 2.979 3.011 3.016
6 2.698 2.800 2.867 2.909 2.928
7 2.553 2.668 2.749 2.808 2.832
8 2.398 2.532 2.630 2.687 2.738
25 Lands
0 1 2 3 4
0 3.750 3.749 3.723 3.690 3.632
1 3.604 3.617 3.608 3.586 3.547
2 3.455 3.470 3.497 3.481 3.455
3 3.307 3.344 3.365 3.375 3.355
4 3.145 3.210 3.252 3.266 3.260
5 2.999 3.082 3.137 3.170 3.168
6 2.852 2.951 3.014 3.054 3.069
7 2.702 2.812 2.890 2.949 2.978
8 2.543 2.680 2.771 2.837 2.872
Each trial consisted of 100,000 "games".
Hope you folks get something out of this. I learned that I'll probably stick with 17 swamps, 3 Urborg, and 5 nonbasics, if I want to run 3 Pox :-)
Take care,
Draugr.
Last edited by draugr; 12-28-2014 at 03:30 AM.
Useful. Thanks!
Yes, thank you Draugr !
No worries! Let me know if you folks are curious about any manabase scenarios, land counts, or want to see just opening hands. The script is written in python. If anyone wants it, I don't mind sharing. I can spend some time later and make it more user friendly.
Also, note that I wasn't sure how to model Dark Ritual, so I left that out. If you have other suggestions to how I modeled Urborg, feel free to share. It's reassuring to see that the expected black mana decreases with running too many Urborgs and not enough non-basics to get value out of them.
I wonder if presenting result to only three decimals would reduce the utility? Otherwise it would make for less clutter.
Edited post :-)
Very nice!
So, 23 lands, running four mishras should work well with just two urborg? Or 3/1.
Thanks for this information, Draugr. One remark; I probably play a wooping number of 10-12 nonbasics, being a mix of Tabernacle, Wasteland, Urborg and Mishra's. In Bg Pox that total even increases. What are your 5 nonbasics?
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