Fate Reforged Thread

[Teveshszat]

Depending on the situation both can be the case. Because sometimes an extra turn is more worth than 3 additional cards and sometimes you just need the draw but not the extra phases and
Landdrop. So saying one of the card effects is inferior to the other is just to easy. If you want to evaluate this you have to look into example siuations and compare them against each other.

What I assume is that in Legeacy there are more siuations were you want 3 cards more than siuations were an complete turn is needed instead of the card advantage. Also since we
are talking about a limited resource game drawing 3 is an actual win condition which can´t be said for the extra turn in legacy. The reason for this is that you don´t have the same
amount of options you get with the Vintage Mana Artifacts and Lands.

[Adryan]

We just have to take a look at Vintage to find out what is more powerful.

[Lemnear]

We just have to take a look at Vintage to find out what is more powerful.

As I mentioned before, you can't draw parallels. There is a big difference between tapping out for your extra turn so you can only profit from an extra swing with your creatures (Temporal Mastery example) or pay only 1U and still have plenty of mana in addition to do stuff (enables by mana-artifacts and Tolarian Academy to follow up with Tinker, Dark Confidant, Demonic, Will, Draw7, etc).

There are worlds between the profit of an extra turn

[Teveshszat]

Adryan
We just have to take a look at Vintage to find out what is more powerful.

This is plain wrong. As I allready tried to explain Vintage is totaly different from Legacy when you try to evaluate the usefullness of addtional turns. The reason is the different Manabase and
Options you get with it. Remember wer play a limited resource game and untapping an workshop is plainly more powerfull as untapping a random dualland. So most of the time you find
you wanting a timewalk in Vintage.
This is not the case for Legeacy were you don´t have the Mana Base of Vintage ans since this is different you can´t compare the formats regarding the powerlevel of an addtional turn.

[Barook]

Extra turns are highly situational since they depend on your current board state to be actually good instead of being a glorified Explore.

3 extra cards are almost always useful and thus more powerful in a vacuum, but cheap extra turns are nothing to sneeze at. I actually could see a few Delve Timewalks work alongside TC in some kind of UWR deck with YP and Mentor where extra turn could easily result in massive extra damage/lethal.

[aCatNamedBootsy]

You don't think WotC realized in the meantime, that Delve is no proper way to balance cards for the Legacy cardpool? Tombstalker proofed years ago, that Delve is pretty damn good as a mechanic and their second take shook up the format. Delve is among the top 5 of the most broken mechanics WotC ever printed and you believe that WotC will feed us with more absurd Delve variants? Forget it

Considering the fact that Treasure Cruise exists, that WOTC doesn't really test for Legacy, and that Fate Reforged was the last set of the block to be finalized for design and development I think there's at least the possibility that there could be a delve tutor variant showing up still.

[Einherjer]

Delve-Balance, please?

[death]

Yes. They can keep Treasure Cruise in the format. Give me Demonic Tutor and Balance!

[Barook]

Delve-Balance, please?

Not in the BUG colors, so no.

Considering Concentrate and Diabolic Tutor, a Delve Tutor for or wouldn't seem unrealistic.

[Lemnear]

Not in the BUG colors, so no.

Considering Concentrate and Diabolic Tutor, a Delve Tutor for or wouldn't seem unrealistic.

I'm not sure such a card is even playable because of Ad Nauseam and PIF existing and prohibiting the use, but it would at least present good will from WotC. So far we cannot say balance in printing exists:

[death]

or is unplayable in Ad Nauseam, I can see it going in stand-alone PiF decks, or as Burning Wish target in TES. I will break it Omniscience, can't be countered by red blasts, seems good.

[Asthereal]

Originally Posted by Adryan:
"Maybe we need something to come off the banlist that hurts Delver decks. I would suggest Vampiric Tutor."

How about we unban Imperial Seal and reprint it? Or print a new version where you have to reveal the card you get? Vampiric Tutor is an instant, and that makes it too strong. At sorcery speed it may be okay to have in the meta. Especially if you reveal, so the opponent gets to prepare for what's coming.


Completely different point:
I just love how the Crucible of the Spirit Dragon cannot be used to cast Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.

[Meekrab]

Completely different point:
I just love how the Crucible of the Spirit Dragon cannot be used to cast Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.

Err... yes it can?

[Adryan]

All i want from this set is that they ban Treasure Cruise. It's so stupid when aggressive decks can reload their hand. Also very powerful cards decrease the skill in the game, another of many reasons to ban it...

[Asthereal]

Err... yes it can?

Not the build-up mana storage thing. Ugin is a Planeswalker, not a Dragon.

[Nina]

I would love to see really powerful, nonblue effects with Delve. Cards that could rival TC and DTT, and that forces players to make a choice (now there isn't really a choice, since DTT and TC are so much more powerful than anything else).

What about a Delve Demonic Tutor? Or a Delve Yawgmoth's Will (note the anti-synergy with itself, which makes it rather interesting)? I don't think Green has that many interesting effects you could slap Delve on.

What about red or white delve cards?

Imagine like 4R Devle Lightning Bolt or something...

I'd dig that...

edit/ I'd love delve balance, too...

[Echelon]

What about red or white delve cards?

Imagine like 4R Devle Lightning Bolt or something...

I'd dig that...

Not going to happen b/c of flavor-issues.

[apple713]

What about red or white delve cards?

Imagine like 4R Devle Lightning Bolt or something...

I'd dig that...

edit/ I'd love delve balance, too...

you didn't get the memo? all good delve cards must be blue...

[Lemnear]

What about red or white delve cards?

Imagine like 4R Devle Lightning Bolt or something...

I'd dig that...

edit/ I'd love delve balance, too...

Delve is the Sultai aka BUG colored mechanic. It's totally off to talk red or white cards

[Barook]

Not sure which deck could use it as tech.



GSZ-able Figure of Destiny-type of card. Too bad the first two stages are unimpressive. Note that the third ability can be repeated, unlike Figure's "ultimate" which doesn't change results.



A 4/5 body for potentially ? Not too sure what's the best way to abuse his ability since you need to look for ways to reduce "bad" cards in your GY, and even then, there's still a rest risk that the top of your library gives you something terrible.