I think the ability to be a stabilizer + win-con all in one is not to be overlooked. This is always the dream combination, and is very rare to find in cards. (Look to Batterskull as another example of a stabilizer that wins you the game too.) Almost every non-combo deck is going to struggle to close out the game if you're able to land an Ugin at any point in the game. Yes something like Emrakul generally wins on the spot; however, he's also 15 mana and Ugin is only 8 (10 if you count spell pierce). That's a very, very large difference.
I'm excited for Ugin in Modern Tron, so I'm also interested to see if he's playable here (which I think he is).
These are exactly my my thoughts on the card. It seems like this guy forced on to the board might be the best play in the deck for the mid to late game. If he lands, its game over for all other grindy decks.Originally Posted by Valtrix
Side note: this guy is not so great in the mirror though.
I'm not sure the mid/late game is much of a post-problem. I think getting stabilized early is probably the main game still. The list I've been playing is decent for that, but has a tough time in the face of chalice, blood/magus, wasteland and combinations of the three.
So I spent all afternoon testing with Ugin. It's the real thing; the game is pretty much over when it hits play. In combo matchups it's absolutely terrible, but shines in all fair matchups. Tested a fair bit against several delver decks, deathblade and shardless bug: none of them could win a game after resolving Ugin.
It got to the point where I happily let them counter my EOT Crop Rotation, two-for-one'ing me in the process. This allowed me to resolve mainphase Ugin. This increase in types of threats seems indeed just what the deck needed. This is the list I ended up with:
1x Karakas
1x Eye of Ugin
3x Vesuva
4x Glimmerpost
4x Cloudpost
4x Tropical Island
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Sensei’s Divining Top
3x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
4x Brainstorm
4x Repeal
4x Crop Rotation
2x Moment’s Peace
3x Show and Tell
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
2x Ugin, the spirit dragon
SIDEBOARD
4x Swan Song
3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Elephant Grass
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Phyrexian Revoker
I cut the bojuka bog from the mainboard to make room for an extra Vesuva. Furthermore, I liked having two Candelabra's, as they allow for explosive turns. I didn't think I'd need a second Eldrazi, as Emrakul suffices as a kill and Ugin already takes up expensive card-slots.
Superficially, I really like that list. I think I'll sleeve it up and try it, with a few tweaks. I'll post my list and results in a few days
Hei guys
I will finally buy the Cards that i Need, since Ugin is Releases:P
I tested him too and i can say he's very strong against Controll(Well the match up is good anyway) and Fair Decks. It gives the Deck a bit more Pump:)
I still Play cruise for the Cocka meta because i Play against alot hymn decks.. lol.
But i think we can cut it with less discard in the Format;)
Here my List:
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Primeval Titan
4 Show and Tell
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Repeal
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
3 Crop Rotation
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Vesuva
2 Expedition Map
4 Brainstorm
1 Moment's Peace
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Polluted Delta
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Moment's Peace
SB: 4 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Hydroblast
I think a 3th or a 4th Crop is ok too;)
greets dingo
Skeptical about Ugin in Cloudpost. Ugin doesn't help the problem match ups that are Burn, fast combo, and BUG Delver. You need 10 mana to cast a Ugin through a spell peirce might as well cast a Kozilek at that point or pay 1 more for an Ulamog. Fast combo got better since running Force of Will with Ponder and Treasure Cruise main deck. If I really wanted to beat combo I'd run Rock Lee's white splash for Meddling Mage. It seems Treasure cruise killed off BUG Delver. Burn is still a huge pain and why I don't play this deck locally. Too much burn. Friend who also likes this deck plays Infect because there is too much burn in our meta. Ugin will likely replace some number of Karn in my modern tron deck though.
What are people cutting for Ugin? Its not like there are any Karns to cut. I disagree with cutting Ulamaog since it is tutorable via eye to destroy a problem permanent. Ugin is not tutorable and has to resolve to destroy anything plus gets hit by Spell Pierce when Ulamog does not.
I also like the Trinket Mage. Ability to get Top, Explosives, Map or sideboard Chalice/Relic is pretty good.
I also like Treasure Cruise. Its not a 4 of but the draw power is nice. 2-3 is a good number since you don't want to draw too many of them and you have other expensive drops. You don't have to be casting it for one mana since Cloudposts help you along with any cantrips, fetch lands, maps and crop rotations for the delve. It allows you to run Force of Will main deck and not hate the card disadvantage.
Well Combo is still a Problem, But i use alot the Top and Flusterstorm trick, it will win alot against storm.
If you have alot Burn i think then you should Play more Hydroblast's and Flusterstorm.
Cruise is not bad but alot time i think it doesn't change much in a Game.
Well Ugin is not like Karn or Ulamog. If he resolve against a Tempo/Fair deck you will probably win and you have a bigger Impact than with the other Cards.
I don't mean to be condescending, but what exactly is making Burn a hard matchup? Burn, while by no means a freebie, should be a relatively easy jaunt provided you remember Price of Progress is in the deck and you make sure green source + Crop Rotation is a priority.
I think skepticism regarding Ugin is kind of a misunderstanding as to what slots he takes up. The deck has always had some number of flex slots. The deck has also run some number of "sweepers". Once upon a time this took the form of All is Dust or Oblivion Stone. For a while we utilized pseudo wipes such as Moment's Peace: cards that didn't explicitly wipe the board but had a similar effect in practice. Ugin fits in those slots with an additional caveat: it's a board wipe that also wins the game by itself. Comparing Ugin to an Eldrazi is like comparing Crop Rotation to Sensei's Divining Top: the cards do different things. Again, Ugin would fill a different role, and it just so happens to fill that role well enough that it can also be a win condition by itself; like an Eldrazi. Also, there's a huge difference between 7 mana and 8 in Modern. Even in this deck, there is a huge difference between 8 mana and 9, 10 mana and 11, and 15 mana and 16.
I imagine it would literally be impossible for someone to convince me Ulamog is better than Kozilek - if you're only running one or the other - at this point. In well over a year, I have wished I had Ulamog and not Kozilek exactly once, and I can give you the exact date, match, round, and circumstances where it happened. Rock has correctly pointed out that there are deck configurations where running just Ulamog probably does make more sense...but I don't think it's any configurations we commonly use.
As for Treasure Cruise, well...after a few months of running it and keeping track, my success rate at resolving it was well below 25%, and that's counting matches against decks without counterspells. Especially as UWR Stoneblade continues to trend positively, more and more people are packing some number of main deck REBs and Pyroblasts, and that's as good a cue as any to not lean on TC anytime soon.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
i was wondering what everyones take on the optimal number of crop rotations is. to me, it seems like less than 2 is a mistake, as it is so damn good at what it does. the weakness to counterspells (letting them axe a land) is very unfortunate, but as many have said you can play around that hopefully. is 4 too many for every build? what makes a build run well with 4 crop rotations? what makes other builds run better with less rotations? thanks in advance guys, i love that this thread / discussion is still going strong.
I've always felt fine running 3 but I wouldn't tell you that running 4 is absolutely wrong either. Crop Rotation is the best at what it does and when you need it, you really need it. That having been said, it's not a card I'm always happy to see and multiples in an opening hand are really, really bad. That, to me, is a card that I don't want as a 4-of.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
@zot props with the candelabra in the post signature!
Also I agree with his 3 crop assessment. Its a card you want to see but not in multiples, and can't search for - so that puts it at 3. In a format with less blue and more wastelands, 4 is arguable. For instance in 2013 when RUG, maverick, team America, and dredge were everywhere, crop was a card you always wanted in the opener. Today is different.
I've been using this for a while with a lot of success locally:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Snow-Covered Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
1 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Townos
3 Show and Tell
1 Ponder
SB
1 Bajouka Bog
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Swan Song
4 Flusterstorm
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Wipe Away
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
Here I'm recognizing that my "fair matchup" has always been SO strong that it is time to scale that back and experiment with MD resistance to the format, meaning FOW mostly. Also, I realized that even in the "fair" MUs only one or two spells really concern me, which further points to FOW. I don't love the idea of constructing my MD like this but it's going well so far. A lot of the choices are skewed to get the blue count to where I like it.
One key that makes this idea valid is cavern of souls, which we have all seem to have accepted. Using a pedestrian map, or digging into a cavern to simply bypass all of the common permission and stick Titan allows the MD to sacrifice some redundancy and card advantage. Also now with FOW, the ignorant "SnT w FOW backup", or just Titan FOW backup is a reasonable line - because it's a BONUS line, not plan-A like sneak, which is garbage. Recognizing this is paramount.
Over performers have been Candelabra, Top, 6 MD permission, and Titania. Top is still my baby.TC basically sucks. I'd like to get an EE or a sweeper into the MD too, but I'm not sure what I'd cut.
Ugin is enticing but he still is very hard to land. I think it's an obvious swap over All is dust. But besides being colorless, he isn't synergistic with SnT or Eye. My prediction is a SB, mayyyybe MD 1 of for the sake of Sweeper/increased threat density. But as I was saying before the fair MU is already strong and I'd rather keep the focus on the tough MUs.
Also, the top tier burn deck is an extremely positive matchup. Issues with this are completely due to poor line selection. You should get a crop (dig or mull to it) and hold it for Price ONLY. You should be able to easily float along on GP copies as land drops while holding up the green and survive easily. If you can turn 3 SnT, wonderful. Bring in counter spells! Consider siding out Eldrazi. Get chasm off of Titan if you think they can reach! There are so many tools to use against burn.
I run 4 and I don't see changing that anytime soon. It works for land destruction protection, and gives you flexibility at getting you what you need when you need it.
So, I'm bringing this deck to SCG philly and haven't jammed a lot of games in a post treasure cruise meta. I was wondering what sort of list people are running now or people recommend I should try out. I have access to anything I'll need as far as staple main cards go and I'd love to hear people's thoughts. I'm used to playing in a smaller meta so I don't really know how i would gear this deck for longer tournaments when it comes to sideboard and mainboard flex slots.
Thanks in advance! and I absolutely love the back and forth activity i see in this thread
I really really like the look of this list, is this something you would bring to a larger tournament or is this something more geared towards a smaller tournament/local meta? In a larger tournament would you stick with a similar sideboard plan to this or would you switch to something more along the lines of some of your meddling mage lists? Thanks in advance!
Has anyone tried 3x Primeval Titan + 1x Titania + 1x Green Sun's Zenith over the 4x Primetime maindeck? Just curious if it's "hot garbage" or not.
I'm on 3 Titans, a Titania, 4 GSZ and a bunch of sweet targets right now instead of the SnTs and am liking it so far. I don't think there's a point in running a GSZ over a Titan if you don't have more utility to grab with it, the chance to sometimes get a Titania just doesn't outweigh the benefits of Cavern of Souls for Titan, imo.
Have been brewing madly to determine how to adapt to the new meta pre FR but with ascendancy infection to the max. Found a list that I'm happy with. We'll see how SCG Philly goes.
Rock,
Has your meta shifted to Ascendency decks? I've only seen 1-2 people play the deck in the Baltimore area. ANT is growing in popularity down this way.
See you in Philly, may our cloudposts power each others!
If you're concerned about ascendancy, can you just swap the flusterstorms with swan songs? They're a little weaker against the storm type decks but having another way of keeingp ascendancy off the board seems really good
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