Really? stifle is the most dead card vs ur, i always side out that. thought is bad too. but i prefer thought, yes you take 2 dmg but can took: bolt (-1dmg), pop, some creature and the most importat card treasureOriginally Posted by btm10
I agree that Hymn is still a perfectly valid plan, but 4 Creeping Tar Pits is insanity. That card is fine against Miracles, although they have more than enough ways to kill it. I've been happy with it as a 1-of to bump the land count, and I can see as a 2-of. It really hurts casting all the 3 drops though, and what's worse, you're playing 4 Daze. Daze isn't even that good any more! I really don't get running Hymn but no Wasteland - part of why Hymn is so good is because it can hit lands. The entire deck doesn't really make sense as a whole.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
yea. stifle is force of will fodder.
joking right?
Next meta is flooded with 1/1s everywhere.
Propaganda can be one of the strongest card around.
It pitches to FoW, it requires only 1 colored mana. It is of the right color for everything.
Stifle on their fetches can leave them with 1 land for long part of the game. 2 at best for still a lot of time.
They pack 3 basic lands 4 non basics and just fetches.. Stifle + Wastelands are a massacre in UR matchup.
Burns are everywhere as well, I'm positive that low loyalty counters planeswalker are way too cute for next meta.
The question for me was if the mana denial is a valid plan now that people play plenty of lands and basics. I don't think so, so I just looked at Hymn to get rid of opponents business and Force them into the topdeck mode while I Cruise through the deck and play unblockable threats. I had Pit in mind for providing the double Black and doubling also as a kill option which Wasteland can't. I may overdid it here. I see no value in running a manadenial package over a threat-denial package in the current metagame. I guess you guys are right about Daze. My midrange build is no shell for tempo Elements. Thx for the feedback
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Sorry, I don't agree. My brother has this deck and I regularly practice against it.
Stifle is one of the worst cards in the deck. they dont run wastelands so its 2-4 volcs, 10 fetches, and 3-5 basics. With the amount of cantrips, (i believe 12), they will find their land with ease even if you try to stifle/waste them out of the game.
Once they get their 1-2 lands (basic mountain, basic island) in play, its smooth sailing. for me, stifle goes out, a waste goes out, in comes disfigure, golgari charm, 1 spell pierce. Other than that, this match is not easy
Howdy. I am Modern player who is trying to transition into Legacy. My LGS is starting weekly Sunday Legacy events (with 18 proxies) next week. So I am proxying up Underground Seas, Tropical Islands, and Wastelands and trying this deck out.
I see some of you are running Thoughtseizes MD with Spell Pierces in the SB. And others are running Spell Pierces MD with no Thoughtseizes anywhere in the 75. I own playsets of both cards so I can go with either configuration. I have no idea what my LGS's meta will be like. I have never seriously really played Legacy before. Which version do you all recommend for me? Is one of the two "easier" or "more forgiving" for a newb like me?
Thank you in advance.
Safest would be, a set of Thoughtseize.
TJB
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^
TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)
UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)
I agree. Thoughtsieze is the safer option if you are newer, and it is the more powerful card. It really depends, to me, on your meta, and I don't really like thoughtsieze in a sea of delver decks. Spell Pierce should definitely find a home in your board though, as it's really well placed for BUG delver in the meta at present. It's great vs. Miracles and Storm, and can do work vs. UR delver in combination with wasteland. Just, as should go without saying, make sure you write down the information you get from sieze, as it's probably the most important part of the card early on, that and perhaps sniping a threat.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
Okay, thanks for the tips. I will write again on Sunday and let you know how it went.
Hey All, just wanted to report on my testing a week ago. Here is the list I played:
4 DRS
4 Delver
4 Goyf
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
3 TCruise
4 Brainstorm
2 Disfigure
1 Spell Pierce
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 FoW
3 UG Sea
3 Trop
4 Wastland
9 Fetch
Sideboard:
2 Disfigure
2 Flusterstorm
2 GD Cage
2 Spell Pierce
1 Thoughtseize
2 Golgari Charm
1 Null Rod
1 Krosan Grip
2 V Clique
MU's were against Maverick, D&T, Miracles, Elves, Bant Stoneblade, Infect, Sneak & Show, Food Chain, UR Delver, and Charbelcher. I most cases we played full matches, but in others we only played 2 games.
Round 1: Maverick (1-1)
Game 1 loss. Maverick can be annoying, especially if a Thalia lands. Lost to a huge Ooze, amongst a load of other creatures. If Ooze gets out of control I've found it really sets us back (Goyf shrinks, DRS has less targets, and Cruise becomes waay more difficult to play when you need it most). Thoughtseize has been great at ripping an equipement. Preboard it's tough but the 2 MB Disfigures helped.
Game 2 win. Postboard we're really well positioned with loads of removal. Delver is fantastic in this MU.
Round 2: Death & Taxes (2-0)
Game 1 win. Delver beats with DRS, and MB Disfigue's + Abrupt Decay destroy this deck.
Game 2 win. Null Rod completely hoses D&T. Turn 1 Null Rod and coast to victory.
Round 3: Miracles (1-1)
Game 1 loss. Countertop lock ASAP without necessary counterspells or AD.
Game 2 win. Early Goyf gets ahead, plus lots of DRS damage pulls through before they get their crucial spells. I feel had we played a third game the SB would pull through. Seems like a decent MU.
Round 4: Elves (1-1)
Game 1 loss. Not much to say here, didn't have the nut anti-elves opener.
Game 2 win. Disfigure was good, Golgari Charm was MVP. Charm just stops them, especially if we have a Delver in play to keep the air attacks. I got an early GD Cage going too. SB cards really give us a fair shot in this MU. I would consider mulliganing to find a Golgari Charm in this MU.
Round 5: Bant Stoneblade (0-2) We chose to play without SB's to test his MB. That said, we have no game against a resolved TNN w/o Golgari Charm.
Game 1 loss. TNN = loss.
Game 2 loss. TNN = loss. In the future I would rather deal with an equipment versus a TNN in this MU, so saving a FoW for TNN could be a good idea.
Round 6: Infect (2-0)
Game 1 win. T1 Delver, with AD and FoW backup was easy. Wasteland wrecks this deck.
Game 2 win. Game 2 went same as game 1. Early Delver with Daze and FoW.
Round 7: Sneak & Show (3-0) We played a regular match, but played 1 more postboard for fun.
Game 1 win. Delver plus counterspells and Thoughtseize, easy win.
Game 2 win. Delver plus Flusterstorm and FoW, easy win.
Game 3 win. Thoughtseize and counterspells with Delver in play, seems to be a common theme. Maybe it was luck but my list just walked all over Sneak & Show.
Round 8: Food Chain (1-2) Wasn't really sure how to play against this deck since I've only seen it once prior.
Game 1 loss. Misthallow Griffin was tough to deal with, I don't rememeber the rest.
Game 2 win. Thoughseize and counterspells with a Goyf in play, if I remember correctly.
Game 3 loss. Things were looking great until I drew 3 DRS in a row...
Round 9: UR Delver (2-1)
Game 1 win. Goyf and Cruise.
Game 2 loss. Drew 5 lands in a row, so there was no way about this game.
Game 3 win. Goyf and Cruise, again, Cruise was necessary to maintain speed against this deck. I think we've got really good game in this MU. Game 2 was starting to look good until the 5 land draws :(
Round 10: Charbelcher (2-1)
Game 1 loss. Didn't know I was playing against an opponent who could combo T1 when they're on the play. Did not have the opener FoW.
Game 2 win. Loads of SB hate with Flusterstorm and Pierce, behind a Goyf makes this MU easy.
Game 3 win. Easy win, same as Game 2.
To summarize, I am very satisfied with Team America in this current time. I used all my SB options over the course of the day. At this point I would not change a thing with my list, even if I was going to a large event or into an unknown meta. MB/SB split seems correct between some amount of Disfigures and Spell Pierces. I recently added the 2 Flusterstorms, and I used them more than I expected. I'm loving the low mana curve and the ability to play ahead or be more reactive as necessary. Try this list out, hopefully you'll find the same success!
That's quite a Gauntlet! Thanks for sharing! I'm going to take BUG Delver to our local legacy night tonight... should be about 12 people. I think I'm going to go the thoughtsieze route, as I think it's better in the expected meta of: Lands, Elves, Miracles, Death and Taxes, UWR Pyroblade, MUD, TA, Sneak & Show, and Possibly storm. Thoughts? (from anyone)
I'm thinking this list:
-- 12 dudes
4 DRS
4 Goyf
4 Delver
-- 29 things
1 Sylvan Library
3 Cruise
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Disfigure
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
-- 19 land
4 Wasteland
3 Sea
3 Trop
3 Delta
1 Tarn
2 Misty
3 Verdant
-- SB
1 Null Rod
1 Envelop
2 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Krosan Grip
2 Disfigure
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Spell Pierce
I've put 3 pierces in the sideboard, replacing flusterstorms and a kgrip, since I also have null rod, and dropped 3 siezes into the main deck.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
It's defensible, but I could see the Library going into the SB and bringing up a Pierce, and the reason I say that is when I used to play Library it was an additional tool to search for specific cards that came from the SB. I feel the MB is perfect for cantripping and shuffle effects. The MB Pierce would give you some extra game in those decks you listed.
One SB comment based on my testing is adding the 4th Thoughtseize to the SB. I find myself bringing in that 4th TS more often than not, and against equipment decks, ripping a Cruise, TNN, Combo, and just PITA cards like Thalia it's been great. That's my plug for the full TS suite in the 75.
I think thoughtsieze can be fit in in place of Envelop, as it would come in in similar matchups (Miracles, Storm).
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
I only have a suggestion for the mana base: -1 fetch +1 Sea.
With Seize you often need black on turn one, and Seizes cost life, so having a fetch less can be a good idea.
At least, that'd be my reasoning. 9x fetch can help feed Cruises though, if you don't care about the life loss.
Unfortunately I do not own a 4th sea... Its either a bayou or a fetch for now
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
LOL okay in that case I'd stick with the fetch.Unfortunately I do not own a 4th sea... Its either a bayou or a fetch for now
The current list doesn't need Bayou, and having it as your only land in your opener is of course pretty terrible.
I'll look into acquiring one sometime this quarter ;) I've got a buddy who owes me some cardboard.LOL okay in that case I'd stick with the fetch.
The current list doesn't need Bayou, and having it as your only land in your opener is of course pretty terrible.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
No rush. In the Blue Overload list with many U costing counters 3x Sea, 3x Trop is probably optimal.
EDIT: Yup. Found one I can get my hands on tonight ;) 4 Seas MD it is!No rush. In the Blue Overload list with many U costing counters 3x Sea, 3x Trop is probably optimal.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
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