Snip I agree that Tasigur sucks and BURG might be good. I've been enjoying BURG recently and it doesn't lose all that much from not playing Goyf. I'm fairly confident that BUG is unplayable without Goyf. Goyf is a big dumb tapout beater who can play offense and defense, which is great for a tapout aggro-midrange deck like BUG.Originally Posted by maharis
With BURG, you can play Mongoose, True-Name Nemesis, and Vendilion Clique as replacements.
Last edited by Jander78; 01-31-2015 at 12:25 AM. Reason: Removed flames.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Can't wait for ya'lls to be proven dead wrong about Tasigur.
Getting to 4 mana actually isn't all that difficult for BUG. From about turns 5/6~ onwards, he becomes an immediate MUST-KILL threat that can very quickly run away with the game if left unanswered.
The downside of your opponent choosing the card can be at least partially mitigated by Delving away situationally dead cards and/or removing them as potential targets with the help of your own DRS. Worst case, 'dead' cards become Brainstorm/fetch shuffle fodder.
It is possible that the deck that best utilizes him at 3-4 copies may end up being something more closely resembling Shardless BUG/BUG-midrange (i.e. dropping Daze and/or Delver of Secrets, possibly adding Snapcaster Mage and other cards). However he's definitely awesome as creature #13-14 in BUG Delver.
Tasigur is not good in BUG Delver. It is a fine card otherwise.
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This made me laugh. What a random statement. Have you played 50 test games with him as a three-of, so you drew him all the time and actually got to see how he performs? You haven't, have you?
If there is a deck in Legacy in which Tasigur can do some damage, it has to be a deck that has cantrips and fetches, in order to fill up the yard quickly. It has to be a deck that can defend him against whatever stuff your opponent can throw at him. BUG Delver seems the only real candidate.
Sure, he has disadvantages. Karakas makes him look very silly. So do Rest in Peace and Jace. But all support guys in this deck have their disadvantages. Stalker has no issues with Karakas, but his casting cost is more demanding. True-Name has a similarly demanding casting cost, and he is absolutely terrible against combo. Clique dies to a cough from your opponent and Ooze is a hopeless clock on its own. But none of them cost B to cast. Casting Tasigur, leaving U open for your Spell Pierce? Try that with True-Name. Tasigur has potential. Many of you are just not open minded enough to see it.
Is there a thread/post which details how to use Sylvan Library properly? I think I know... but to paraphrase Mr Rumsfeld, you don't know what you don't know.
Jam it as early as possible against combo and control opponents (even in advance of laying down a threat if that's the choice). If the choice is between casting this and Hymn, it depends on the circumstance -- like against Storm combo, you're probably safer off Hymning them, which will likely buy you a bit more time. Against control opponents I would actually prioritize getting Sylvan online ahead of resolving a threat.
Once resolved, it's basically an upkeep SDT on steroids. You can aggressively pay life for cards against decks which don't really threaten your life total very quickly (e.g. Miracles), but against Bolt and aggressive decks and such you need to be more careful (although there are still instances where paying 8+ life against something Like Jund is correct if the cards you're drawing are going to bury them that turn.)
Really, it's not a card that easily fits into following hard rules as so much depends on the particular circumstance.
Ok. But if there's only one in the main deck, statistically, you might only see it 1 in 3 games? For such a powerful card, why not 2 in the main? Brainstorm and Ponder, as well as itself, can easily adjust to drawing the unwanted second copy, no?
I found having 2 sylvans to be too many in game 1. In game two, if you need it against miracles, then you board it in.
There are just too many delver decks, even after the banning to run 2 sylvans main. The sylvans are too slow in that matchup, unless you are able to push it to turn 5 and with good board control, but with those delver decks, you never know.
With Ponder, you actually run into the singleton copy of Sylvan quite frequently.
I went 5-0-1 at this week's FNM, with the following results:
Round 1: 2-0 vs budget Bant Hexproof (Giest nearly gets me but his use of Phrexian mana spells cost him the game)
Round 2: 2-0 vs UWR Blade (many much Goyf get around a few TNN)
Round 3: 2-1 vs TES (I cut him to his only out of Burning Wish game 1, other games were won by Hymn or double Hymn)
Round 4: 2-1 versus Lands (I scoop up game 1 to a Punishing Fire and Loam lock, game 2 he gets stuck on colored mana and Deathrites take over, game 3 he has triple Maze of Ith and Stage copying Maze holding back 3 Goyf and Clique, then I rip Needle and savagely name Maze)
Round 5: Draw vs Dredge (played for fun and won 2-0 on Deathrites)
Top 8: 2-0 vs UR Burn (He runs umm, Blazing Shoal? He hits me for 9 turn 1, I fight through some burn and stabilize at 6 when he sacrifices two Mountains for Fireblast on my lethal Delver without taping for mana, so I Daze it. He makes a big deal that he meant to and I am too tired to argue, so I let him have it. He loses a few turns later with no lands. Game 2 he hits me for 15 on turn 1, I play Goyf and hold down the fort, draw just enough of everything to beat him down with the lone beater.)
It's 1 am so we split.
So, I am reasonably happy with my sideboard.
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical
2 BEB
2 Disfigure
1 Winter Orb
1 K Grip
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
1 Cage
I am considering cutting the Grip, but I am not sure for what. Possibly also the BEBs. I find I lose to Elves more than I think I should. Also, can anybody comment of the Shardless BUG matchup? I have very little experience with it.
Sorry for the hackneyed post, working from my phone.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Jim Davis is currently rocking 10:2 with a Stifle Bobby build. ..
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I don't have a ton of experience against Elves, sorry. I would guess that it's just variance with 2 Disfigures and 2 Charms being a lot of good cards for the matchup. I've found Shardless to be even to slightly unfavorable, but it's very close either way. The variations in how Shardless and Delver are built seem to change the specific dynamics of the matchup, with the Strix builds lacking MD Force tending to be harder to beat than the Lejay build or the more conventional 3 Force build because they can play the attrition game better.
The card literally does nothing when in play. You want to hold up 4 mana (who even has that kind of mana in play let alone kept untapped) to cast a marginal regrowth? I don't. It does not flip Delver, it does almost nothing until very late game and it is a nonbo w/ Goyf & DRS (unlike Treasure cruise which used to let you refill the yard very quickly).
I saw it played and it was the nut low, I don't need to test w/ 3 of them to see how the card is bad.
I am certain it may be decent in the mirror but otherwise, I would never want even 1 in my deck.
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Except be a 4/5 for B. Even if he pinged you each upkeep like Juzam he's be testable. Since he's better than that, I'm going to test him. I'm putting the odds on him being good-to-great in the mirror and pretty solid against any deck that doesn't run Karakas.
Exactly.
Jim Davis, any Tesugurs? I guess 0 Tesugurs is wrong.
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The other Top 32 players (One on 10th I think and one on 24th place) had 2 Tasigur in they`re MD
Currently playing
Jim Davis' build was with Stifle & Bob, with 13 counters. Tasigur might fit better in a traditional tapout strategy, no?
I played in a very small Legacy event on Sunday, turns out that 98% of the people that were expected at this event traveled to Indy this weekend to play instead. I played against a mono red Blood Moon brew, Merfolk, Maverick, and Infect.
Match 1 Blood Moon Brew, 0-2. T1 Blood Moon game 1, and T2 Magnus on game 2. Quickest match of Magic I've ever played.
Match 2 Merfolks 1-2. Was in commanding lead all games, except games 2 and 3 he top-decked a Relic of Progenitus the turn I would have killed him. To add insult, he had mostly Mishra's Factory and Mutavaults in play to deal the remaining damage. Bad luck.
Match 3 Maverick, 1-2. I don't exactly remember how it played out, but basically it came down to who was on the play won the game.
Match 4 Infect, 2-0. Established tempo both games, hitting resources with Wasteland, Disfigure, Lily, and Daze/Pierce.
Seeing how Maverick is making a stronger resurgence (see Top 32 SCG Indy Open), how do we best handle that deck? I play a lot against it, and I'd say I'm 40/60 to it. I play the classic TA build with 4 Hymns and 2 Lily's, 12 creature package. Seems whomever plays first has the distinct advantage, but if they game goes long usually Maverick pulls through. My experience tells me Mother of Runes is a must counter/kill on the spot. Thalia pseudo Time Walks us, and by that time a KotR or Ooze or SFM is in play. Between their DRS and Ooze, our resources get challenged. The only sure damage is Delver, which leads me to think is Tombstalker best to bring in against Mav? I tend to think the Stifle build could be better against them (everything costs 1 mana making Thalia less threatening, and Stifles protect against all of their activated abilities).
Thoughts?
Run at least 1 copy of Dread of Night. For how difficult MoR and Thalia are for BUG, there's no reason to not have at least one sideboard slot for them if your meta has those decks. After all we spend slots on stuff like Krosan Grip and whatnot. Beyond that you want some more removal in the sideboard: Massacre, Diabolic Edict, Toxic Deluge, Golgari Charm, Submerge, etc. Speaking of Charm, try to reduce the likelihood that you run into a Choke blowout by sandbagging Decay/Charm if possible. Rest in Peace is another speedbump they may bring in against you that you'll want to answer quickly. Null Rod is an effective way to shut off their SFM plan.
If you're running 4 Hymn, consider cutting at least some of them in games 2/3. These games tend to go long anyways and there is a possibility they have the Wilt-Leaf Liege.
You'll also want to maybe run more maindeck removal beyond just the 3-4 Abrupt Decay if you expect to run into this matchup frequently. Disfigure, Dismember, and maybe 1 Murderous Cut are all considerations. 1-2 copies of Liliana of the Veil are generally good.
Altogether this is not really a good matchup. The deck is a natural foil to Delver/tempo strategies, so unless you're seeing it all the time I wouldn't stress about it too much. Every deck has its poor matchups, and BUG Delver is no exception.
- - -
Regarding a supposed 'perfect' deck list: Not gonna happen. At least until they print enough powerful cards that are so much more powerful than alternative options. For now, there are instead plenty of Tier 1 cards to choose from that have their relative power dependent upon particular scenarios.
There are about 50~ cards we can all pretty much agree on for this archetype, but beyond that the the final few choices come down to metagame, how the rest of your deck & sideboard is configured, and plain dumb luck (i.e. which decks you end up facing and dodging in a tournament). For example, some tournaments you'll feel like a genius for running some Submerge in the sideboard, in others you'd wish you'd have packed more general removal.
Tasigur is similar. In some matchups you'll be glad you packed him and he's arguably the best threat in the deck. In other matchups you'll cut him in games 2 and 3 every time. I think he probably works best in a tap-out Hymn list that builds up its graveyard quickly and demands an early answer. The same is true of all other additional threats: some matchups they are nuts; in others they are nearly worthless.
My prediction is that BGx decks will become more popular in the coming weeks, making Tasigur a solid choice.
Personally, I've not had much luck running Stifle builds ever since around the time DRS entered the format. Part of it may be the general paranoia of my local opponents' always playing around Stifle, but in general I find nabbing a Fetchland or stopping most triggered effects is not quite as powerful as a well-timed and sufficiently lucky Hymn. That said, results don't lie and obviously a Stifle list is capable of taking down a tournament.
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