I have a tabernacle. At the beginning of my opponents turn he controls a vial@2 a bunch of creatures and like four lands. He told me that he can put a counter on Vial, Vial in Flickerwisp, Flickerwisp my Tabecnacle, and then get out of paying for Tabernacle. Is that true?
Nope.
His creatures get a triggered ability, so while he can stack the Vial and Tabernacle triggers to his liking, removing the Tabernacle doesn't make the triggers on the stack go away.
Cool, thanks.
New question: If the creatures gain the trigger thanks to Tabernacle, do I have any obligation at all to remind my opponents? If they miss it do they get a chance to pay, or does their shit just die?
If he forgets to pay, the creature gets destroyed. He can't say, that he would have payed it, after he is already in his draw step. It is the same thing as the Pact triggers.
Greetings,
Kathal
Yeah, once he has seen his draw, he now has information that he should not have at the time of the decision to pay or not. That, of course is the shorthand version of what is actually happening, right? But that is what your story is when calling the judge.
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The owner of the trigger is the owner of the creature. So if you move to draw step, you are assumed to have performed the default action of the trigger, in this case it is destroyed.Originally Posted by Finn
Last edited by Tammit67; 02-05-2015 at 04:28 PM. Reason: And sacrificed instead of destroyed
Matt Bevenour in real life
I've been on the receiving end of this before. I'm playing reanimator with lethal on the board. Opponent is on Lands. He plays a land, survey's the board, and passes. I proceed with my turn. Once I drew my card, he picks up my creatures and puts them in my graveyard. I'm looking at the board and him, wondering what the heck is going on, when he points to his Tabernacle.
Is there any obligation by the owner of Tabernacle to at least announce the Tabernacle? I had the mana and would have payed if I knew about the triggers. I do understand that it is my responsibility to maintain the board state and understand what is going on. I feel a judge call could have saved me.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale does not have any triggers. It grants the ability to the creatures and therefore it is your responsibility to ensure that you maintain your triggers. A judge could only have sided with your opponent. You made your choice by making no choice.
Now obviously the owner of the tabernacle cannot obscure that they in fact control one, but the trigger is controlled by you and they don't have to remind you in your upkeep to pay.
Matt Bevenour in real life
it is no longer a sacrifice, the creature would be destroyed; so an effect that prevents destruction would allow you to skip paying the one mana.
Forgive me, I mispoke. It has never been a sacrifice for the land, it has been changed to a sacrifice for magus of the tabernacle
Matt Bevenour in real life
You cannot obscure that you control a Tabernacle, but you don't have to put a tinsel on it neither.
Actually it's not the same as the Pact triggers. Missing paying the Pacts is a special case that would always lose you the game, which is the wrong choice and an obvious mistake. The rules were changed some years ago to allow players pay for Pacts after the draw step (and most likely get a warning, but I'm not sure about that). Judges might correct me if I'm wrong since I've been disconnected from the competitive scene for a while.
Incorrect. If you forget a Pact trigger, you lose the game. Triggers with default actions - which both Pacts and Tabernacle have - resolve using the default action when it's discovered they've been missed. I don't remember any point at which you would not lose the game if you missed the trigger. You also get a Warning though you lost the game, since it's a detrimental trigger.
IPG Missed Trigger:
If the triggered ability specifies a default action associated with a choice made by the controller (usually "If you don't ..." or "... unless"), resolve it choosing the default option.
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