Hello everybody! Long time lurker, first time poster here!
Recently I managed to win a local legacy tournament with Ein's decklist, modified to my liking and local metagame.
Maindeck
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
Sideboard
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Counterspell
1 Disenchant
1 Wear // Tear
3 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Pyroblast
A report from the tournament:
Round 1: BYE
Round 2: Esper Deathblade
Game 1: He plays an early Dark Confidant off a Deathrite Shaman and starts beating me with both. The Confidant flipped a Batterskull and few lands, while I cast 3 Ponders and a Brainstorm to find a Terminus. After wiping the board, I landed a Sensei's Divining Top and Jace, while he found Liliana of the Veil and Jace with a freshly cast Dark Confidant. I managed to ambush him with Entreat the Angels (for 3 angels), when he attacked my Jace for the second time with the Confidant. Angels took care of Lily and Jace and another EtA made next attack lethal.
Game 2: After another Deathrite Shaman into Dark Confidant, an end of turn Brainstorm ensured a timely and miraculous Terminus. He tried to land a True-Name Nemesis, but luckily I had a red Elemental Blast while he was holding a hand full of lands. Jace on the following turn made him concede.
Round 2:0; Total: 2:0
Round 3: RUG Delver
This player is known for playing URx Delver decks and the recent bannings of Treasure Cruise made him return to the green splash. In the previous tournament he steamrolled me with the UR version with Cruises.
Game 1: In the first couple of turns I used a Swords to plowshares on a Goyf and 2 Delvers, while terminating the annoying Nimble Mongoose. Still he managed to get me to 5 life and cast a new Mongoose. During my turn I had to cast EtA for single angel and hope didn't have 2 bolts in his hand. On his turn a Goyf joined his team. Reluctant to trade a Mongoose and a Forked bolt for angel, he burned me for 2 at the end of my turn. During his upkeep I tried to cast a Snapcaster with StP in graveyard, who was met with the last 2 cards in his hand - one being Force of Will, of course. When he attacked with both creatures I cast StP from hand and blocked the Mongoose with the angel. While he had an empty hand, I took over the game with Jace and CB + Top lock and beat him from 26 to 0. During sideboarding we chatted about game and he confessed that the Snapcaster blindsided him and he was caught with the StP from hand.
Game 2: His deck performed like a beast. I didn't have a chance to cast anything relevant. SDT found me a Terminus when I was at 6 life and 2 bolts revealed from his hand meant: Better luck next game.
Game 3: Turn 1 SDT was met with turn 1 Delver, which flipped immediately after revealing Stifle. I sent him farming right before another one joined the team. When he used Stifle on Terminus revealed during his turn on Brainstorm, I tried to cast Vendilion Clique in order to block the flying insect. Clique got countered with his last card in hand pitched to Force of Will. On my turn I landed CB and Snapcaster for StP. Snapcaster started beating from 22 to 0 and an EtA ensured he conceded before the last few attacks.
Round 2:1; Total: 3:0
Round 4: MonoR Burn
During the first round I got to see that my opponent for this round was playing Burn. And she was using evil sideboard cards like Scald and Sulfuric Vortex. Oh boy, this could hurt.
Game 1: With me on the play, we both keep a 1-lander. I had Ponder, Brainstorm, SDT and was hoping that she would open with Goblin Guide to make the land draws for me. I saw 2 lands from Ponder, which meant I didn't make a mistake by keeping my opener. Meanwhile she didn't draw her second Mountain until turn 10 or so. By that time, I had already established full control with CB and Jace.
Game 2: Karma is a bitch. Opening 7 – no lander. 6 – no lander. 5 – still no lands. At this point I actually checked if I somehow messed up sideboarding and left lands out. I didn't. Keep next 4: 2 lands and SDT with Ponder. I was dead as a Dodo on turn 4.
Game 3: We both keep. While I start with Ponder, she immediately starts with Bolting my ass. On her second turn she suspends two Rift Bolts. At this moment karma changed her mind and switched sides again. Drop land no. 3 and play Eidolon of Rhetoric. Woohoo! Her tempo comes to a screeching halt, while I slowly fill the board with CB, Jace and lands. A few turns later she cast Ensnaring Bridge and I blind flipped Entreat the Angels on the Counterbalance trigger.
Round 2:1; Total: 4:0
Round 5: Junk
My opponent in this round is known for playing slowly and contemplating every possible line of play to the last detail. I knew he was packing the Dark Depths combo with the Life from the Loam package, which meant that if I didn't win game 1 I would probably lose the round.
Game 1: We both struggle with slow starts and nothing relevant. I played it safe with fetching all basics, with him having turn 1 Life from the loam and Wasteland in the graveyard. After he dredged Volrath's Stronghold, he started bringing Dark Confidants from graveyard to the battlefield. With a few StPs and Snapcasters I got to kill all four of them before they revealed even a single card. I got to land a Jace and force his Liliana while clearing the board of Goyf and Knight of the Reliquary with Terminus. With 6 minutes left in the round I summoned and army of angels for the lead.
Game 2: I keep a hand with 2 lands, 2 Swords to Plowshares, Snapcaster Mage and Ponder. We quickly agreed that neither of us could win in the 5 extra turns.
Round 1:0; Total: 5:0
Round 6: Jund
Game 1: I sent his Goyf packing before I got hit with Hymn to Tourach for a land and Council's Judgement and then Terminus sent a Deathrite Shaman and a fresh Bloodbraid Elf with Dark Confidant to the bottom of his library. After the dust cleared it all came down to a battle of planeswalkers - Jace vs. Lily. While Jace brainstormed and provided lands for discarding, Snapcaster held his Lily under control. When I could protect my army of angels from Maelstrom Pulse, my opponents conceded.
Game 2: The game basically repeated itself. Somehow we got to a game state where I was at 7 life and Jace at 11 loyalty. I was fatesealing him every turn, mostly leaving cards on top (he had really bad draws, I believe I put only one card on the bottom). All this time he was slinging Punishing Fire at me and Jace. (I don't know why he didn't just finish Jace). When I found Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top with another CB on top of library, he admitted defeat with a hearty hand shake.
Round 2:0; Total: 6:0
The deck performed like a boss and I would not change a single card in maindeck. But sideboard? It was tweaked to match my personal preference and local metagame (few Delver decks, mostly midrange stuff like Junk, Jund and BUG, with single deck appearances like Storm, Elves, Reanimator, 12post, D&T, Infect…)
I am interested in your thoughts about some sideboard choices. The following cards are constantly in and out of my sideboard and I am never sure what to do with them:
- Engineering Explosives: while I am big fan of this card, somehow I can't find a spot and use for it in the 75. I would put it in if I were playing Academy Ruins, though (but that is bad, I know)
- Baneslayer Angel: while lifelink is tempting, I find it too slow to make an impact on the game
- Izzet Staticaster: shouldn't I use EE instead? Although flashing it in and sniping a bunch of elves, elementals or goblins is awesome
- Keranos, God of Storms: personal favourite extra win condition for grindy matchups. I prefer diverse threats due to Surgical Extraction being played a lot here
- Disenchant vs. Wear // Tear: is the demand for the red source not worth the chance to net 2 targets?
- Blood Moon: I play 6 basics and this card alone can seal the game vs. 12post, infect and greedy midrange deck with zero or only a single basic land
- Containment Priest: maybe I should just pack random topdecked reanimation effects or sneak attack/show and tell/natural order into the shit happens category and move on?
I really like Keranos in a BG infested meta. It's nearly impossible for them to deal with, and the games are grindy and long.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
Tokens I made myself and Beta BasicsOriginally Posted by Quasim0ff
Hi, run into 3 interesting situations testing G1 Miracles vs. Storm - what would you do? (up to date Ponder list -Council's Judgement +Counterspell)
1.
OP - 3 tapped lands in play, Infernal Tutor on the stack, 3B3R floating, hellbent - 12+ card in GY, relevant cards are Past in Flames and Dark Ritual (IT for Cabal Ritual Ritual is lethal)
YOU - hellbent, Sensei's Divining Top, 1 tapped Island and 2 untapped fetchlands in play (2 Counterspell and 3 Terminus left in the deck)
A - fetch both blindflip for Counterspell countering Infernal Tutor
B - ..... countering Ad Nauseam/flashbacked Past in flames and risk Empty the Warrens
C - plan to counter lethal Infernal tutor after flashbacks
2.
YOU - Tundra, go (hand = 2x Counterbalance, Counterspell, 2x fetchland + irrelevant cards)
OP - Gitaxian Probe, land, Brainstorm, pass
YOU - Draw a Brainstorm, play a fetchland
A - fetch, slam Counterbalance
B - fetch, pass
C - pass
3.
OP - starts, T1 Gitaxian Probe reveales - Counterspell, Island, Snapcaster, Counterbalance, Jace, STP, Ponder .. Counterbalance gets discarded
YOU - Island, Ponder - shuffle, draw a land, pass
OP - Brainstorm, fetchland, fetch, Ponder, pass
YOU - draw a FOW
A - you play the land
B - you play the land, fetch
C - you don't play the land
1. here you are almost dead. If they are smart enought they will kill with tendrils. So the only out you have is fetch and blind flip counterspell
2. Land pass. Bs eot to get rid of extra cb and find lands
3 play the fetch and brainstorm eot
I think you just go for the blind draw right away. If OP knows your only out is counterspell, there's a chance he'll play around it. Try to cut him off while you can, he's already hellbent. But its a slim margin and you are probably dead already :P
Play the fetchland and BS EOT; this leaves up CS in case something happens, or allows you to hide a CB from Therapy while setting up your CB for next turn (or fetching away irrelevant cards, depending on what you draw off BS)
Are you trying to bluff missing your land drop? I don't think that's very effective. There is a good chance they could hit your hand with another duress effect if they are ready to go off, which nullifies the FOW... Definitely play the land, pass, then you have both CS and FOW(w/Snap or Jace) up, with the chance to draw another CB off the top or something. You need to hit your land drops against Storm to make sure all your countermagic is always live; CS is worthless to have if you can't even play it! You want the extra mana if you draw Top also. Play the land.
In general, if you run Ponder Miracles and it's game 1 against storm, you are not favored. The decision making in this game will be mostly straightforward. As you described in all 3 situations, there are not many alternatives. The fact that Storm players probe-ed, makes the decision path even easier.
To reiterate the obvious, the key in this MU game 1 is the fact that if you successfully land CB-T, Storm has no AD to deal with it.
Regarding those Storm questions. First of all, I doesn't think that this MU is unfavourable at all, although you have to be a bit lucky to win pre-board. 1 and 3 is answered easily (you're dead, you drop a Land), but 2 is interesting.
I say, you Slam CB, always, for numerous reasons:
- it is unlikely that she'll go off on turn two, statistically this happens most times on turn three or four
- there won't be any better time to play CB than your turn two. You need your resources for counter and card quality and can't risk tapping two mana in your mainphase in the following turns
- A blind CB induces stress, because she have to think which card she can expense to test your top library card
- if you slam your CB without thinking too long they have to assume that you have FoW in hand
- therefore a CB leads to longer games because your opponents have to find a Way through CB plus counters, and the best strategy for that without AD is abusing the stack to get us out of resources. This gives us time to collect counters and filter useless cards from our hands. (Sitenote: In this MU, you always want to have as much blue cards in your hand as possible as pitch cards for FoW)
He's right!
And another point is that a land (0), a 1-drop, a 2-drop or even a jace or fow on top is likely to stop a combo on turn 2. Just slam the CB!
Storm player was on the draw, went Gitaxian, then Brainstorm. Leading with Brainstorm turn 1 off a land (not a Lotus Petal) is generally a huge misplay when piloting Ant, therefore it most probably means he was looking for something specific to go off, for example a second ritual or tutor. For sure not an artifact because after seeing CB in your hand he would have dropped it turn 1 because the chance of you flipping a land with CB are higher than any other casting cost. So my prediction/advise is, stay UU open, because he could have the turn two kill with no protection…
Slamming CB is a good play anyways! I would not do that, but is a fine play.
Edit: another possibility is that he had Petal/Cabal Therapy in hand and was looking for Cabal Therapy/Petal, and his hand still needed to be sculpted through cantrips and he had no turn 2 kill...In this case CB is the correct play.
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lets talk about show and tell matches. Lets consider they are boarding 3 defense grid against us.
Turn 1 : she plays land pass
You: land + sensei
Turn 2 : she plays defense grid
Situation1
Your hand: flusterstorm 2lands fow 2xreb
1. Fow the defense grid removing fluster
2. Let resolve
Situation2
Your hand: 1cb 1fow 2xlands 1xsnap 1fluster
1. Fow defense
2. Let resolve and deploy cb
3. Let resolve, land pass holding fluster
At least tell us if you have one or more Volcs/fetches already on the battlefield or hand ^^
I'd fow that, as double Reb should be fine trying to stop her first attempt.
-----
Fow again, CB is certainly not enough here.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
The MU overall is even. To be specific, we're discussing about Game 1, which is what the original poster did, he tested pre-board a bunch of games. The issue he brought up is the fact that Storm player probed you, so he knows what he needs to play around, if any. Say you intend to fight Storm game 1 with your counter-magic, probe + therapy will deter that plan. So I do agree with you game 1, you have to slam CB reasonably early, but not in the specific situations the original poster described.
This way of opening a question is flawed. Since it's a SB match, you should let us know it's Sneak and Show or Omni-tell. Both decks run Grid in the SB I believe.
Its against sneak show and we have 2 fetches in hand
Ah, ok!
Yeah, and this bothers any of my points because of...? I don't get it, sorry!
Please explain me why.
Played the following list at a local Legacy tournament today (with 15 people)
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Council's Judgment
3 Dig Through Time
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
Sideboad:
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Blood Moon
1 Disenchant
Round 1 Manaless Dredge (2-1): Game One he won the die roll and then chose to draw, so I already knew what was up. I found no interaction, and quickly scooped. Game Two I put him on the play, and a turn 2 Relic slowed him down significantly. Mentor on turn 4 closed things out quickly. Game 3, he missed a couple of triggers, and a Relic was able to snag 2/3 of his Dread Returns. I FoW'd his 3rd one, and Mentor + double Top loop was generating more creatures than his 3 active Bridges.
Round 2 TES (2-1): Game One we both mulled to 6, and he got us both basically hellbent after 3 discard spells. Eventually he resolved an Ad Nauseam and found a bunch of mana, and then Burning Wish'd for a Tendrils. Game Two I established Top + Counterbalance and floated a Clique on top since I knew he plays Wipe Away. He was able to resolve an Ad Nauseam finding an Abrupt Decay, but tapped out in the process. So I main-phased the Clique to bottom the Decay. The game took a bit because he resolved 2 Xantid Swarm early, but I just floated a 2 on top, which he couldn't beat. Game 3 I was able to hit a Petal + LED with an EE. Clique + Snapcaster got there while he was tied up on mana.
Round 3 Esper Stoneblade (2-0): Game One I was able to get a Top + Counterbalance lock going, and threatening him with both Jace and Mentor. Game Two was extremely long and grindy, and DTT was an all star. I eventually killed him with Jace.
Round 4 Shardless BUG (2-1): I was the only 3-0, so I had to play this out. Game One he kept a very slow hand, and I was able to out-grind him. Game Two he resolved turn 3 Liliana, followed by a turn 4 Jace (with FoW backup), and I quickly scooped for time concerns. Game Three was extremely long. I kept a one land Top hand. He played a Deathrite on turn one. On turn 2, I spin in my upkeep to find an Arid Mesa. On his turn, he cascades into a Pithing Needle, which I Spell Pierce, and he FoWs back. Needle resolves, and obviously names Top. At this point, I was in bad shape, but I was able to rattle off the right combination of lands and answers. Eventually chaining DTTs pull me back to into the game, and lets me resolve a Jace on a board of just 2 Shardless Agents, though I am at 8 life. He starts attacking me instead of Jace, and gets me down to 1, but Jace finds the limited number of answers left in my deck (basically an EE, a Snapcaster for a Plow in the yard, and a Terminus). Jace fateseal wins right before time is called.
Overall, I loved the deck, and thought DTT was extremely powerful in this shell. Mentor was strong in the combo matchups, and fine against Esper Blade. I sided it out against BUG, since I knew his sideboard was full of hate, and I was trying to brick Decay. I would definitely find room for the 4th Divining Top going forward, probably -2 Spell Pierce, +1 top +1 Counterbalance. The sideboard was a bit of a mess, and skewed this way because I had been getting housed by Lands the past few weeks playing other blue decks. I actually cut a second Surgical Extraction right before the event, and laughed pretty hard when I was paired against Dredge r1.
I've been seeing alot of Miracle lists running 2-3 Dig Through Time. On paper it seemed like a natural fit so I tested them out. After quite a bit of testing, something very obvious stood out, the deck has waaaaayyy too many dead cards in the opening hand if you include Dig in the deck. Even with 4 Terminus and 2 Entreat, the deck already has alot of cards you don't want to see in your opening hand. If you throw in another 3 Digs, you are looking at 9 dead cards in the opening hand. Mulligan rates can increase quite a bit with Dig.
This just increases the chance of having dead cards stranded in hand which is a major Miracles problem. I understand dig is a major bomb in the mid to late game, but it doesn't matter if you can't get to the late game. This deck also doesn't fill the yard as fast as other more proactive decks like Stoneblade or Delver. I've also been experimenting with the Punishing Grove combo in the deck as end game gas instead of Dig. Punishing fire is relevant in the early game by picking of creatures like Deathrites, Sfm and Delvers. In the end game Punishing Fire crushes Planeswalkers and Tarpits etc which are generally a major problem for Miracles. Punishing fire also has a very friendly casting cost for Countertop. It increases my 2 cc count for more consistent Counterbalance flips compared to Dig.
I've noticed my Rug Delver matchup dropped from 55-45 to 50-50 due to my more vulnerable manabase. However my other midrange to control matchups all increase by 5-10%. I think it's generally a worthwhile sacrifice if the meta is very Midrange with Jund, Shardless or Bug Delver/ Stoneblade.
What does your manabase look like with pfire?
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Island
1 Plains
I also run 2 Ponders to smoothen out the draws a little bit. The manabase isn't reduced to a pile of crap or anything, but it isn't as waste proof as it used to be. Not having space for Karakas hurts too but the deck can only play that many non blue sources. I also don't run any MD cliques so Karakas is not as essential in my build. 4 Tundras are necessary unfortunately to up the white source count to 15.
The manabase looks more like the usual Stoneblade manabase now (with Grove being wastelands or colourless utility lands like Mishra's factory or Academy Ruins) which isn't terrible, it's pretty solid. Having said that, expect to take a significant hit in your win percentage against RUG Delver lists with Stifle. Wasteland alone won't affect the manabase much but Wasteland and Stifle can be a problem.
I agree with you in principle. However, people like Renelt are just following the Duke. Duke's been doing his thing for a while now.
Houston had lots of Miracles, the usual suspects: Renelt and Bass. Henly and Sullano were rocking with Ein's latest list. I find it funny when Miracles took 2nd and 3rd while Food Chain took the trophy. StP didn't work too well in the final I suppose.
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