[Deck] Turbo Depths

[apple713]

i can tell you about mox diamond. It's a great card but its also a dead card. It only serves the purpose of mana fixing and acceleration and is definitely not what you want to be seeing late game. For that reason I suggest running 2 over the expected 4. 24 lands with 2 is doable. The more mox's you include the more you need something like life from the loam to help recycle. I've played a deck with 2 moxes and no life from the loam and it worked out fine. If you are running 4 moxes you can still run 24 lands, but you would need at least 2 life from the loams.

My first version in the OP has mix diamonds and exploration. Exploration seemed excessive but it was also very nice winning on t3 a lot. Both of them combined really really speed the deck up to the point where you are doing things on t1 that you wouldn't be able to do until t2-3 in the current version. Example

T1: mox, land -> exploration -> sylvan scrying.
T2: token....

the issue with mox is that it can be a dead card late game, and it gets hoped by flicker wisp / phyrexian revoker in random cases. It does help vs blood moon really nicely. I'd actually be more likely to play with 2 boxes over testing with 4 drs. Although mox doesn't have the same versatility that DRS does its in my opinion a clearer card. It has an immediate impact on the game and running 2 won't bog down the deck.

Also, I know some decks have tried running lotus petal. I would strongly suggest running +2 mox +1 Exploration +1 life from the loam in the place of 4x lotus petal. You get a lot more versatility out of

recommendation: -2 colored land sources +2 mox diamond. if 4x lotus petal then +2 mox +1 Exploration +1 life from the loam

EDIT****

After consideration, I'll be testing adrieng's list with the following modification: -3 carpet of flowers -1 gemstone mine +2 mox diamond +1 Exploration +1 Life from the loam.

reasoning: the main reason carpet was included was to accelerate into slaughter games T2. SO, because i don't like running conditional cards main deck, I opted for cards that have proven useful in the past that fill the same roll, acceleration. I chose a mix of mox / exploration to reduce the bad draws later in the game and create diversity. 3x moxes would result in many more hands that are not keepable, and with 2 that would probably not happen. although exploration is the only card that would allow you to cast slaughter games t2, 1 exploration is all you need because they are terrible in multiples. However, when drawn early, it can really speed things up by enabling a t2 combo or crazy fast digging. Additionally, it combo's nicely with Life from the loam to have a recurring combo if the game gets to that point. Since you don't want to have to rely on LFTL 1 is all you need. Having one that shows up in game 1 may entice opponent to sideboard grave hate strategies which would be really weak against us and give us an advantage.

With the simple addition of these 4 cards, I think you can still reliably cast slaughter games, T3 fairly reliably, and sometimes t2. They are not flat out dead 40% of matches game 1, and they add incredible diversity. Furthermore, they have all been discussed previously and close additions and if 3x slots for acceleration are something we are seriously considering, these are among the best options.

Side note, mox helps againt blood moon where carpet is unlikely to.
Also, I'm glad the adrien changed the SB because when I drafted my list with the old sideboard I noticed that it gets blown out by chalice @ 2. ancient grudge, ratchet bomb, pyroclasm.

[adrieng]

reasoning: the main reason carpet was included was to accelerate into slaughter games T2

this is not at all the main reason I don't even know if slaughter game is the better option versus last rites and choke.
The main reason is that the card is better than reb/pyro against tempo in this deck and gives you the opportunity to play your spell faster to race them.
Having "haste" and beeing removal.proof makes it a way better option than DRS (which eats bolt all day). It also can make more than one mana very easily
and doesn't die to opponents DRS.

The card is not dead against combo because it speeds up gamebreaking spells such as last rite/slaughter games which is an other good point.

Mox diamond and exploration are not good alternative imo. These cards are card disadvantages and are not backed up by the loam engine.

[apple713]

this is not at all the main reason I don't even know if slaughter game is the better option versus last rites and choke.
The main reason is that the card is better than reb/pyro against tempo in this deck and gives you the opportunity to play your spell faster to race them.
Having "haste" and beeing removal.proof makes it a way better option than DRS (which eats bolt all day). It also can make more than one mana very easily
and doesn't die to opponents DRS.

The card is not dead against combo because it speeds up gamebreaking spells such as last rite/slaughter games which is an other good point.

Mox diamond and exploration are not good alternative imo. These cards are card disadvantages and are not backed up by the loam engine.

both mox and exploration speed you up. Although carpet has the potential to give you extra mana, mana turns it just gets wasted... similar to having an exploration in play and no lands to play.

Both Mox and exploration work well with loam. They don't work well if they are dredged but on turn 1 discarding a land to mox and casting loam to retrieve it is a good play if t2 you are going to dredge lands and start digging. Exploration allows you to play both stage and depths in the same turn when recurring them with loam, so I'm not sure what you meant by saying they are "not backed up by the loam engine"

another option for the deck is to run City of brass over copper line gorge and play 4x stifle. That would leave blue in a better ratio than green. 9 colored sources to cast 4 blue spells vs 10 green sources to cast 8 green spells. You could also run up to 4x blue cards in the sb and not worry about throwing off the color ratio.

stifle has been discussed a lot previously so I won't reiterate, but it's one of the stronger cards in the blue version since it's very versatile. The tempo is can gain vs a storm deck when stifling a fetch land can often times be the turn you need to win. Otherwise it's a stifle for the storm trigger. Opening up the SB to possibly 4x blue cards could include flusterstorm or envelop or dispel or spell pierce. Although it would delay us a turn you could also consider swan song since it hits both, show and tell and sneak attack.

[t000]

both mox and exploration speed you up. Although carpet has the potential to give you extra mana, mana turns it just gets wasted... similar to having an exploration in play and no lands to play.

Both Mox and exploration work well with loam. They don't work well if they are dredged but on turn 1 discarding a land to mox and casting loam to retrieve it is a good play if t2 you are going to dredge lands and start digging. Exploration allows you to play both stage and depths in the same turn when recurring them with loam, so I'm not sure what you meant by saying they are "not backed up by the loam engine"

another option for the deck is to run City of brass over copper line gorge and play 4x stifle. That would leave blue in a better ratio than green. 9 colored sources to cast 4 blue spells vs 10 green sources to cast 8 green spells. You could also run up to 4x blue cards in the sb and not worry about throwing off the color ratio.

stifle has been discussed a lot previously so I won't reiterate, but it's one of the stronger cards in the blue version since it's very versatile. The tempo is can gain vs a storm deck when stifling a fetch land can often times be the turn you need to win. Otherwise it's a stifle for the storm trigger. Opening up the SB to possibly 4x blue cards could include flusterstorm or envelop or dispel or spell pierce. Although it would delay us a turn you could also consider swan song since it hits both, show and tell and sneak attack.

With som many DRS running arround, and GY hate in every SB i dont see the gain in riksing playing mox diamond/loam/exploration. Its better to be on the safe side!

But apple713 I do agree on the Stifle thought. Running 4 Stifle main deck would be really awsome.

[komondor]

So I've changed my mind on Carpet of Flowers. Not loving it so much. This is what I'm currently playing.


4 Mana Confluence
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Duress
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Slaughter Games

4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Sylvan Library

Sideboard
3 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Krosan Grip
2 Life from the Loam
2 Slaughter Games
2 Bojuka Bog
1 Pyroblast
1 Creeping Tar Pit


I took the tar pit out for a bit and am running it again because miracles has been whipping my butt. That's also the matchup where I've decided I don't like Carpet of Flowers and am now running 9 discard spells. The Life from the Loam is for 12 Post and I've found that 2 Bojuka Bogs has been the magic number for me to crush reanimator and dredge and oops all spells and crap like that. Omnitell is still pretty rough and I think I might take out 1 Life for a Rec Sage.

Just 4-0'd the daily tonight with this. BUG, Burn, Reanimator, and don't know what in round 4. They never showed up. I was on the play with Duress, Inquisition, 2 Crops, COB, Copperline, and Urborg. So I would have had a turn 3 with 2 discard spells.

[apple713]

So I've changed my mind on Carpet of Flowers. Not loving it so much. This is what I'm currently playing.

I took the tar pit out for a bit and am running it again because miracles has been whipping my butt. That's also the matchup where I've decided I don't like Carpet of Flowers and am now running 9 discard spells. The Life from the Loam is for 12 Post and I've found that 2 Bojuka Bogs has been the magic number for me to crush reanimator and dredge and oops all spells and crap like that. Omnitell is still pretty rough and I think I might take out 1 Life for a Rec Sage.

Just 4-0'd the daily tonight with this. BUG, Burn, Reanimator, and don't know what in round 4. They never showed up. I was on the play with Duress, Inquisition, 2 Crops, COB, Copperline, and Urborg. So I would have had a turn 3 with 2 discard spells.

in my experience LFTL is terrible against 12 post as they run a few bojuka bogs, and have access via crop rotation. Additionally they can copy it multiple times with vesuva.

[komondor]

in my experience LFTL is terrible against 12 post as they run a few bojuka bogs, and have access via crop rotation. Additionally they can copy it multiple times with vesuva.

Do you have any other suggestions? The only times I've been able to win have been thespian's staging my ghost quarter. Though the additional discard may help some. I do think i'm going to pull the trigger on 1 LFTM for RecSage. Will gladly switch the other to a 12 post helper.

[apple713]

Do you have any other suggestions? The only times I've been able to win have been thespian's staging my ghost quarter. Though the additional discard may help some. I do think i'm going to pull the trigger on 1 LFTM for RecSage. Will gladly switch the other to a 12 post helper.

i don't have much to contribute here. 12 is in my opinion one of the worst matches. They have a lot of main deck answers. I think the best strategy so far is basically reiterating what i had said previously about removing their threats.

The best way to understand how to beat a deck is to play the deck. I've played 12post and several variants. The primary goal is to get a primeval into play ASAP to ramp into an eldrazi. Usually the first lands I pull (depending on the board state) are eye of gin and cloudpost/vesuva. Against Dark depths they'll probably get a Karakas, unless they have a crop rotation for it. The next mode of play is to search up a threat with eye of Ugin. If Eye of Ugin is destroyed, it's very hard to find the 2 colorless threats unless you are holding them. Although quarks presents a problem for you they have enough bounce to make it more of a last priority. Pithing needle on lands are ineffective because they can bounce it and then activate in response. Destroying is much better. They do not have recursion unless emrakul hits graveyard... which doesn't happen.

in short. I'd probably slaughter games primeval, then emrakul. At that point you may only have to worry about kozelik / ulamog, and now recently they havve been playing Ugin (the planes walker). Preemptive pithing needle helps maybe but if the game is really gone that long its not good.

the other strategy which may be better is to slaughter games their bounce, and needle the quarks so they can't bokuka into it. Be careful about playing maze of it because vesuva makes a copy of it and then it becomes a problem for you. Maybe in your version with 9 discard it won't have as bad a time because their threats are few and far between. You may consider surgical extraction but idk how well it will perform.

[t000]

Eladamri's Call ?

- Green White Demonic Tutor, enought said!
- Shaman and Confluence helps to cast him
- Sejiri Steppe and Karakas can go main deck and help with the W casting cost

Riftstone Portal ?

-also boost out G mana source for the Eladamri's Call and the other G tutorcards

I cant see any discussion about Eldamir's Call? Any thoughts guys?



What about:

Sengir's Call
1B
Instant
As you cast Vampires Call you loose 2 life.
Search your library for a vampire card with converted casting cost 3 or less, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Ha ha.. it would be a dream come true!

[rickster]

Just 4-0'd the daily tonight with this. BUG, Burn, Reanimator, and don't know what in round 4. They never showed up. I was on the play with Duress, Inquisition, 2 Crops, COB, Copperline, and Urborg. So I would have had a turn 3 with 2 discard spell.

Modo is a great program that's what happened. I got my 6 packs along with the entry fee at least. I was on lejay's shardless bug list with some tweaks.

[komondor]

Modo is a great program that's what happened. I got my 6 packs along with the entry fee at least. I was on lejay's shardless bug list with some tweaks.

That sucks if you're CryingGod. I obviously feel very favored with that hand on the play but it's magic and who knows. Either way, my goal is to get better at piloting this deck and free wins isn't going to get me there.

[rickster]

That sucks if you're CryingGod. I obviously feel very favored with that hand on the play but it's magic and who knows. Either way, my goal is to get better at piloting this deck and free wins isn't going to get me there.

Yeah I share accounts/cards and transferring cards is a pain. I don't play on my main anymore.

[PhyrexianPossum]

Anyone testing with blue black Lim-Depths?

It's just so much faster! AND you get counterspells? Why don't more people play this version?

[t000]

Anyone testing with blue black Lim-Depths?

It's just so much faster! AND you get counterspells? Why don't more people play this version?

Yes counterspells and stifle are seriously missed. Please enlighten us regarding your lim-depths deck, sounds verry intresting!

[apple713]

Anyone testing with blue black Lim-Depths?

It's just so much faster! AND you get counterspells? Why don't more people play this version?

i would argue that it is not faster but if you have been testing please share what you have found. Currently the version is about as quick as it get without acceleration. It's consistency allows a reliable t4 token, if not sooner, a majority of the time. Since the blue version doesn't have acceleration (at least the ones discussed previously) it can't really be faster, and probably at best matches the consistency considering it doesn't have access to the same tutors. If anything its slower because it gives up crop rotation. In turn it gets counterspells which have proven to be great. But please share what you've found

[TLK]

I wouldn't mind seeing this UB list either.

[komondor]

I just wanted to say how much I love this deck. Thanks Martin and Apple. I had basically no decks period and hadn't played legacy and saw it on the SCG post when Martin did well at Eternal Prague. Saw that it was legacy cheap and bought it. Then saw the link to this thread.

Just mulled to 4 and had 2 turn 20/20 and if he countered the hexmage I had stage for turn 3. hahahahahaha so much fun. It's just a blast to play!

[PhyrexianPossum]

http://www.mtgvault.com/phyrexianpos...cks/ub-depths/

This is always the list I advocate- still debating about the stifle-spell pierce-hymn split.

The main card that makes this version so different is Lim-dul's Vault + 12 cantrips. Combining this with Lotus Petal, I've never gotten a Marit Lage later than turn 3.

The counterspells make combo a lot easier (because you also have discard) and the stifles are nice against Miracles, as you can stifle the miracle trigger on their Terminus or just Force it. Not sure if Swan song is correct, as it kills Sneak attack but is a timewalk against the token. Spell pierce is probably better.

I'm not sure whether Deathrite Shaman has a place in it- acceleration is good, but I have no idea what to take out. If you put in Shaman, than you have to splash green for the graveyard hate, and therefore can put Crop Rotation back in. Maybe BUG is the way to go?

Because it is a shell that is much like Delver, it's very tweakable and even customizable- I've played all sorts of variants on this with more/less cantrips, discard, counters, and even been able to side into UB delver (although that kinda sucks.)

Thoughts? I'm not sure if this is better than the Jund colors per se, as they play quite differently.

[apple713]

http://www.mtgvault.com/phyrexianpos...cks/ub-depths/

This is always the list I advocate- still debating about the stifle-spell pierce-hymn split.

The main card that makes this version so different is Lim-dul's Vault + 12 cantrips. Combining this with Lotus Petal, I've never gotten a Marit Lage later than turn 3.

The counterspells make combo a lot easier (because you also have discard) and the stifles are nice against Miracles, as you can stifle the miracle trigger on their Terminus or just Force it. Not sure if Swan song is correct, as it kills Sneak attack but is a timewalk against the token. Spell pierce is probably better.

I'm not sure whether Deathrite Shaman has a place in it- acceleration is good, but I have no idea what to take out. If you put in Shaman, than you have to splash green for the graveyard hate, and therefore can put Crop Rotation back in. Maybe BUG is the way to go?

Because it is a shell that is much like Delver, it's very tweakable and even customizable- I've played all sorts of variants on this with more/less cantrips, discard, counters, and even been able to side into UB delver (although that kinda sucks.)

Thoughts? I'm not sure if this is better than the Jund colors per se, as they play quite differently.

if you are playing DRS with a good number of fetch lands, running 3 colors might be viable. It would be worth testing. 3 colors without him was pretty bad though.

[t000]

Here is a fun take on Marit Lage:

https://othersideoftheplanet.wordpre...e-comparisons/