[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Silverflame]

I have been jamming Daretti in my "regular" welder build but somehow he was not so good. Goblin Welder is enough for the deck. His discard, draw ability also worse then you might think. I even considered replacing Daretti with Faithless Looting. In the end i cut them for more artifacts to be more consistent.

There is a RG build with PFire/loam centered around Daretti. The list reminds me of UB Tezz. Pretty grindy.

Su-chi and Nim Deathmantle seem cute, but i'd rather force to resolve Ugin against BUG.

Cutting Lightning Greaves is a mistake. The card is often involved in games that are won. Unless you are going to cut Forgemaster package and switch to a more prison/control list i wouldn't do that.

I agree that greaves should be kept. It wins games and it is a way to get out of liliana and jace's lock. But if the list is gonna focus on boarding Ugin or Karn, it seens ok to MD just 1 greaves.

Do you have a sample of the RG deck? It seens interesting.

[Silverflame]

The guy at the legacy IQ wasn't really a great MUD player I don't think. I railbirded a couple of his matches and he played a little bit differently than I would, but he had all good match ups the whole day. His only loss was Dredge in the swiss rounds.

In this same tournament I got 13th, and my record was 6-2, his was 7-1. My game win percentage was 73.68% and his was 65%.

The two players I lost to ended up being 1st and 2nd place.

Your record is pretty impressive still. Sometimes the only difference between a 9-32nd finish and a 1-8th finish is 1 game of magic. That can just be bad luck at the wrong time.

I have been considering cutting the 2 lightning greaves from my list to make room for possibly 2 thran dynamos, and cutting 1 other card to make room for another mainboard Ugin. I'm not sure what I'd cut though.

Thanks
Of the 2 lists above I like the first (Justin Moss).

I've been thinking of cutting 1 monolith and something else for 2 dynamos in the post build, but that loses percentage to mana denials like shardless T1 waste +surgical, D&T and eternal garden, so I'm not really sure it's worth it.
If you're using the same list you posted a while ago, maybe -1 staff for +1 ugin and maybe -1 trini - 1 greaves for 2 dynamos, but I don't think you really need em with your current manabase (I use -2 vesuva -1 wasteland + 3 cavern of souls). Dynamos would be more useful in the list with voltaic keys and welder.

[mgoldman]

What are people's thoughts on a 1 of buried ruin? I recently put in my deck but haven't had it in play yet.

[Alex Holland]

What are people's thoughts on a 1 of buried ruin? I recently put in my deck but haven't had it in play yet.

1 offs that arent artefacts are completely random and a waste of space.

[Jakobian]

1 offs that arent artefacts are completely random and a waste of space.

I used to run a buried ruin in my sideboard alongside a crucible of world's. Against mono-color decks I would sideboard out a wasteland for the buried ruin, and against decks with wasteland, I'd sideboard in buried ruin and cavern of souls and remove some other stuff (dependent on the matchup). I have literally never activated it.

I could see buried ruin as a 3 or 4-of in some variant MUD list, but you would want to re-build to optimize it's usage (possibly trading post, goblin welder, krark clan ironworks?). I can't think of a matchup where I would feel like buried ruin would win me a game or anything like that though.

[(nameless one)]

Hey guys,

Now that spring is around the corner around here, I might be going to a couple of local and possibly major tournaments.

This list is usually my go to "I don't know what the meta is like" list:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Mishra's Factory
3 City of Traitors
3 Vesuva
3 Wasteland

4 Mox Diamond
3 Grim Monolith

4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Spellskite
2 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Duplicant
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Wurmcoil Engine

As you can see it's more on the Stax spectrum of the archetype. I am thinking of replacing Hellkite/Titan/Wurmcoil with three Ugins. I will probably need to test it as if I do that, I will further decrease my threat density and Forgemaster will be close to useless.

Any advices?

Alternatively, I might go back with my page one Welder list and fix it up to involve Darettis.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Why aren't we playing PHYREXIAN PROCESSOR ?

really... why?

Artifact - 4

As it enters the battlefield, pay any amount of life.

4 , T : Put an X/X black minion onto the battlefield where X is the amount of life that you paid .

Even paying 4-5-6 life gives you a beater every turn. For a deck that is having trouble drawing cards why not get a beater at the end of your opponent's turn?

You only have to pay the life 1 time.

Will go through your opponent's removal like a revolving door.

//

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
2 Vesuva
2 Wasteland

3 Mox Diamond
4 Grim Monolith

4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Goblin Welder
1 Godo Bandit Warlord
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
1 Sundering Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Predator, Flagship
1 Phyrexian Processor
3 Trinisphere
2 Scroll Rack
1 Batterskull


I'd play this if I had Batterskull and Scroll Racks. Need to get those cards...

[(nameless one)]

Why aren't we playing PHYREXIAN PROCESSOR ?

really... why?

Artifact - 4

As it enters the battlefield, pay any amount of life.

4 , T : Put an X/X black minion onto the battlefield where X is the amount of life that you paid .

Even paying 4-5-6 life gives you a beater every turn. For a deck that is having trouble drawing cards why not get a beater at the end of your opponent's turn?

You only have to pay the life 1 time.

Will go through your opponent's removal like a revolving door.

I remember back in the day where this was played with Crumbling Sanctuary. Pay 20 life (mill yourself 20) but kills the opponent within the next turns even when your opponent can deal with the initial minion. Crumbling Sanctuary also prevents you from dying from your own Ancient Tomb (at least it won't kill you fast enough).

[Sisyphos]

I remember back in the day where this was played with Crumbling Sanctuary. Pay 20 life (mill yourself 20) but kills the opponent within the next turns even when your opponent can deal with the initial minion. Crumbling Sanctuary also prevents you from dying from your own Ancient Tomb (at least it won't kill you fast enough).

Was there actually ever a time where this worked? The way the cards are worded and the rules work now, Crumbling Sanctuary will not mill you for 20 when you pay life for Processor. Crumbling Sanctuary only works when damage is dealt, not when life is paid.

[Silverflame]

Was there actually ever a time where this worked? The way the cards are worded and the rules work now, Crumbling Sanctuary will not mill you for 20 when you pay life for Processor. Crumbling Sanctuary only works when damage is dealt, not when life is paid.

You have to pay 19 (or whatever keeps you at 1 life or more) and subsequent damage is turned into milling. You'd still die to Deathrite Shaman though.

[Sisyphos]

You have to pay 19 (or whatever keeps you at 1 life or more) and subsequent damage is turned into milling. You'd still die to Deathrite Shaman though.

Yeah, that's how I remember it, but he wrote: "pay 20 life (mill yourself 20)". That implies that he thinks Crumbling Sanctuary would turn the life payment into self-milling.

[Silverflame]

Yeah, that's how I remember it, but he wrote: "pay 20 life (mill yourself 20)". That implies that he thinks Crumbling Sanctuary would turn the life payment into self-milling.

oh yeah, he did.

[Bobmans]

Was there actually ever a time where this worked? The way the cards are worded and the rules work now, Crumbling Sanctuary will not mill you for 20 when you pay life for Processor. Crumbling Sanctuary only works when damage is dealt, not when life is paid.

Jon Finkel won worlds back in 2000 or so with a Tinker deck running that shit.

Tinker

(21)Lands**
9Island
4Crystal Vein
4Rishadan Port
4Saprazzan Skerry
(9)Creatures**
4Masticore
4Metalworker
1Phyrexian Colossus
(30)Other**
4Brainstorm
1Crumbling Sanctuary
4Grim Monolith
1Mishra's Helix
4Phyrexian Processor
4Tangle Wire
4Thran Dynamo
4Tinker
4Voltaic Key
(15)Sideboard**
4Annul
4Chill
4Miscalculation
1Mishra's Helix
2Rising Waters

Kai Budde won worlds in 1999 running Wildfire


Main Deck
60 cards

3* Ancient Tomb
4* City of Traitors
13* Mountain
20 lands

4* Covetous Dragon
1* Karn, Silver Golem
3* Masticore
8 creatures

4* Cursed Scroll
4* Fire Diamond
4* Grim Monolith
2* Mishra's Helix
4* Temporal Aperture
4* Thran Dynamo
4* Voltaic Key
4* Wildfire
2* Worn Powerstone
32 other spells

Sideboard
2* Boil
3* Earthquake
1* Mishra's Helix
1* Phyrexian Processor
2* Rack and Ruin
2* Shattering Pulse
4* Spellshock
15 sideboard cards

Basicly the core of those decks are what we now tinker about in this thread.

Edit: i use to play those decks back then. Also have them in the gold bordered championship decks. Anyway, this is the reason i love playing MUD, 1999 all over again.

[Sisyphos]

Jon Finkel won worlds back in 2000 or so with a Tinker deck running that shit.

I know Finkels list. I know the old Tinker decks and the history of MUD. What I asked was whether back when Finkel ran his deck the rules used at the time ment that Crumbling Sanctuary actually turned the life payment required by Phyrexian Processor into self milling, as the post by (nameless one) states or not. Because I can't find anything that confirms his statement and the cards under todays rules do not work in such a way as paying life is not damage dealt.

I did not play Mud in 1999 but I can see reasons to include Crumbling Sanctuary in a Tinker deck even if the interaction with Phyrexian Processor I was asking about does not work. Crumbling Sanctuary basically gains you ~40 life against aggressive decks for instance. As Crumbling Sanctuary is not useless in the deck even if it does not turn the life payment required by Phyrexian Processor into self milling, simply saying that Finkel played both cards in the same deck is not an answer to the rules question I asked. The decklist you posted for Kai does not even include Crumbling Sanctuary, so again I cannot see a connection between your post and my question you quoted.

[Bobmans]

I know Finkels list. I know the old Tinker decks and the history of MUD. What I asked was whether back when Finkel ran his deck the rules used at the time ment that Crumbling Sanctuary actually turned the life payment required by Phyrexian Processor into self milling, as the post by (nameless one) states or not. Because I can't find anything that confirms his statement and the cards under todays rules do not work in such a way as paying life is not damage dealt.

I did not play Mud in 1999 but I can see reasons to include Crumbling Sanctuary in a Tinker deck even if the interaction with Phyrexian Processor I was asking about does not work. Crumbling Sanctuary basically gains you ~40 life against aggressive decks for instance. As Crumbling Sanctuary is not useless in the deck even if it does not turn the life payment required by Phyrexian Processor into self milling, simply saying that Finkel played both cards in the same deck is not an answer to the rules question I asked. The decklist you posted for Kai does not even include Crumbling Sanctuary, so again I cannot see a connection between your post and my question you quoted.

Back then it also didn't work. Life loss and damage where threated as different like it is now.

Edit: i just wanted to share. Didnt know there was a ruling about making a connection that you seek. I had a connection and there it is.

[Bobmans]

I agree that greaves should be kept. It wins games and it is a way to get out of liliana and jace's lock. But if the list is gonna focus on boarding Ugin or Karn, it seens ok to MD just 1 greaves.

Do you have a sample of the RG deck? It seens interesting.

1 Greaves might be a bit to random. When i can i try to find room for 3 copys. This garuentees more often being able to have explosive opening hands or have access to protection.

Da-Welder

This link could probably get you to the original RG Daretti list. I have seen it in a tournament once. Looks like a fun deck to play.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

People were discussing Scroll Rack, uh why not

Phyrexian Portal ? -- 3

{3}: If your library has ten or more cards in it, target opponent looks at the top ten cards of your library and separates them into two face-down piles. Exile one of those piles. Search the other pile for a card, put it into your hand, then shuffle the rest of that pile into your library.

.

This is pretty much what I wanted.. the ability to draw into relevant cards every turn for very low cost. This card is not like other "choose a pile" cards, because the piles are very large piles. This is better than Scroll Rack in one sense that you shuffle the library each time, so it digs. It's a poly effect meaning you can repeatedly activate the effect more than once in a turn.

the "drawback" is that it will exile a few cards each time you do it. this is not much of a drawback at all.

[Silverflame]

1 Greaves might be a bit to random. When i can i try to find room for 3 copys. This garuentees more often being able to have explosive opening hands or have access to protection.

I said 1 greaves if your deck is going to focus on delivering a game ending planeswalker.

Abour phyrexian processor vs scroll rack, scroll rack is -3 mana, can put back a blightsteel colossus so you can forge it, helps against discard by hiding your important cards and is also repeatable. On the other hand, Processor will dig deeper, and can find your silver bullet. I think in different matches one may be better than the other, so it's worth testing.

[Alex Holland]

I said 1 greaves if your deck is going to focus on delivering a game ending planeswalker.

Abour phyrexian processor vs scroll rack, scroll rack is -3 mana, can put back a blightsteel colossus so you can forge it, helps against discard by hiding your important cards and is also repeatable. On the other hand, Processor will dig deeper, and can find your silver bullet. I think in different matches one may be better than the other, so it's worth testing.

No it iS not.

Portal is t'rash. Draw 20 cards and look at them. Make 2 piles, one consistent of 8 lands and 3 trash cards. Now chose one Of them Lol

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

No it iS not.

Portal is t'rash. Draw 20 cards and look at them. Make 2 piles, one consistent of 8 lands and 3 trash cards. Now chose one Of them Lol

That's not at all what the card does,

Your opponent looks at 10 cards, and divides them into two piles.

YOU CHOOSE THE PILE THAT GETS EXILED, AND YOU SEARCH THE OTHER PILE

Your opponent doesn't choose anything besides dividing the piles!

that means, no matter what pile you pick, you still have a 50/50 chance of getting the best out of 10 cards, and guaranteed the best pick out of 5-9 cards.

Phyrexian Portal

not Phyrexian Processor (a different card)

Planar Portal is yet another different card

Play the card online in MTGO to playest how it works if you don't really understand too well,

it will ask you "What pile do you want to search"

even if your opponent has divided all the bombs into a single pile , and you pick it, even though the pick was 50/50 blind you still get to search that pile.

I'll give you a worse case scenario .

Your opponent takes your best 3 cards, and now you get to choose what pile to search

even if you search the other pile with the "worst cards", it's SEVEN of your "worst" cards, that is 7 top decks otherwise

do the math

every time i have done the experiment online as to what my opponent will choose to do, they will always divide the pile 5 and 5, because its the only reasonable choice to make, otherwise you get to choose a selection of 6 or 7 cards if you wanted (why wouldn't you)

yes, it's "random" between 50/50 choice of piles, but you still have a 50/50 chance of the best card out of 10, and one of the piles is between 5-9 cards.

always pick the bigger of the two piles, almost always, because it will always give the best selection of a range of cards, and your opponent might bluff and put the best cards in it anyway, if you pick the bigger of the two piles, the smaller pile is getting exiled, meaning you can activate it more times and have more cards shuffled back into your library