[Deck] U/G Infect

[Jesture]

I found the following sideboard tech at the first page last year.
Is this the way we should board? Instead of boarding out stifle, what would you board out?

Side boarding is difficult because Infect tends to be a pretty tight list with variability on maybe 5-6 cards at most between any given list. The only cards I would never side out are Invigorate, Berserk, and Brainstorm. Everything else can leave the deck in some matchup or another.

-The distinction between the play and the draw with this deck is pretty huge. Daze, Stifle, and Wasteland all become significantly worse on the draw, you'd only leave all three of these in post board against hard combo decks.
-Our Infect Threats all do different things. Think about what removal you're up against and consider boarding out based on whatever answers they bring in.
-Delve cards are strong, but they definitely come out against quicker matchups. The exception is if you're siding in another Crop Rotation, or if you're already playing 2 in the main.
-Force of Wills come out against fair decks.
-Invigorates always stay in. They're by and far the best pump spell in the deck, and go a long way to enabling the one shot kill.
-Berserks also stay in. Don't be afraid to use them on unflipped Delvers or low power Goyfs, your opponents can't win if they can't pressure your life total.
-Vines of Vastwood can come out against faster decks or decks without targetted removal.
-Stifle gets significantly worse if your opponent is playing around it. If your opponent sees it, it's almost always right to side it out in the following games (exception is against something like ANT).
-Crop Rotation has a lot of flexibility, but is a blowout if it doesn't resolve. Consider taking this out against counter-heavy decks.
-Gitaxian Probe isn't always useful. Think about the life versus the information when deciding to keep this in (Do you really need to know what spells Burn has in hand?)

Here's a couple of sideboard plans. For reference, my 75:

12 Creatures
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Glistener Elf
4x Blighted Agent

29 Non-Creature Spells
4x Invigorate
4x Vines of Vastwood
2x Berserk
1x Become Immense
1x Dig Through Time
1x Crop Rotation
1x Stifle
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
2x Spell Pierce
2x Force of Will
3x Gitaxian Probe

19 Lands
8x Green Fetchland
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest

4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Wasteland
1x Pendelhaven

Sideboard
2x Force of Will
2x Submerge
1x Piracy Charm
1x Divert
2x Krosan Grip
1x Nature's Claim
1x Sylvan Library
1x Crop Rotation
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Pithing Needle
1x Spellskite

VS RUG:
On the Draw

Should come in
+2 Submerge
+1 Piracy Charm

Situationally comes in
+1 Divert (Ranges from a narrow Spell Pierce to a 2 for 1 on a removal spell and a threat)
+1 Spellskite (Are they bringing in Artifact Removal? Spellskite is huge food for Goyf, think hard before bringing it in)
+2 Krosan Grip (Blood Moon or Pithing Needles?)
+1 Bojuka Bog (Slows down both Goose and Goyf)
+1 Pithing Needle (Did you see a Lavamancer?)

Cards to side out
-2 FoW
-1 Crop Rotation (Bad against Wasteland deck with counter magic)
-1 Dig Through Time (Gets much worse in the face of Pyroblast and lack of Crop Rotation)
-1 Glistener Elf (Good luck connecting with those)
-4 Daze

VS BUG Delver:
On the draw

Should come in
+2 Submerge
+1 Divert
+1 Sylvan Library

Situationally comes in
+1 Spellskite (Makes Goyf bigger, but it's better against Disfigure than Bolt)
+1 Piracy Charm (For Dark Confidant)

Cards to side out
-2 FoW
-4 Daze (Especially bad against Deathrite Shaman)

VS Miracles:
On the draw

Should come in
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Piracy Charm (Peacekeeper feels bad. Also gets to hit Snapcaster and Clique. Also the dream of Piracy Charm in response to Miracle trigger with one card in hand.)
+2 Force of Will (Miracles has a couple of high impact cards we need to stop, but the rest of the deck is pretty easy to deal with. As such, the card disadvantage from Force of Will hurts us less in this matchup.)

Situationally comes in
+1 Submerge (Peacekeeper feels bad. Do what you have to do to keep it off the field.)

Cards to side out
-1 Crop Rotation
-3 Daze (Personal preference, I like this configuration because Daze has the upside of occasionally getting around CounterTop, while Spell Pierce almost never will. Also, very few people expect the Daze, and a singleton is easy enough to shuffle away with Brainstorm.)
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Wasteland

Situationally comes out
-1 Blighted Agent (If you know they're playing Pyroblast effects, one of these guys can come out of the deck. The unblockable isn't as relevant in this matchup.

Sideboard strategies On the Play are just abbreviated versions of sideboard strategies On the Draw.
I may write up some more side boarding plans in the future, but this is exhausting and it's always going to be situational. There's no substitute for experience, so just play as many games as you can with the deck and test out what works best for you.

[poxy14]

VS Miracles:
On the draw

Should come in
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Piracy Charm (Peacekeeper feels bad. Also gets to hit Snapcaster and Clique. Also the dream of Piracy Charm in response to Miracle trigger with one card in hand.)
+2 Force of Will (Miracles has a couple of high impact cards we need to stop, but the rest of the deck is pretty easy to deal with. As such, the card disadvantage from Force of Will hurts us less in this matchup.)

Situationally comes in
+1 Submerge (Peacekeeper feels bad. Do what you have to do to keep it off the field.)

Unless the MIRACLE player is carrying a trops in his deck, and that's very unlikely.. this is where i would want to insert something like a DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE (though just on a brief effect) comes in. Ive had success too in sideboarding SURGICALS vs MIRACLES, since it can hit stuffs like stp, brainstorms, terminus. I dont board out FOWS since its still very valuable midgame even on losing 1 card.. dazes shld all go, i even board out vines...if he stps, i'll just pierce it...pierce provides defense vs both stp and terminus and spells like counterbalances/explosives/early senseis/jtms more often so than dazes/vines., but i do agree with you, everything is SITUATIONAL and meta gaming is a big key here, having the right helpers game 2 and 3 can bring W's!

[Neffy]

Played at my LGS last night. Heres a quick walkthrough from my notes.

MUD 1-2
This matchup is fine if he just dont have trini or an early chalice on 1.
He does though and win game one.
G2 I get him on turn 2 with top deck berserk on elf or something.
G3 goes way too long and he has too much stuff. I draw only lands and lose.

D&T - 2-0
G1 Take the chance and keep 0 land hand with 2 probes OTD (riskyy vs D&T...)
Him: He went plains, vial.
Me: Draw = no land, probe 1= no land, probe 2=no land... discard, go
Him: No land, vial on 1
Me: Land (pwew!), BS, see more lands.
Him: No land, vial on 2, play second vial.
Me: play blighted agent and noble
Him: No land, Vial on 3 and 1. Probe showed 2 flickerwisps in hand..
Me: Noble. attack with agent. He flickers it.
Him: No land (woot?!). perhaps vial up to 2. still one on three.
Me:Attack agent, he flickers.
Him: Land, SFM from vial EOT. Jitte
Me: Attack with unblockable agent with vines and invigorate backup. No flickerwisp from him. I Win.

G2
He goes waste, vial, go.
I go trop, claim on his vial, go.
No land drop from him.
I land early dude and begins beats and he doesnt recover.

UR - 2-0
Low experienced young boy.
he has quick delver (that doesnt fliP) and dual swiftspears. I have glist + pendelhaven to fend him off.
Eventually i have inkmoth and kill him while flying high.

G2 I play around forked bolt and elecktrickery. His deck is very slow and never see a dude. I do though, and rides to
victory with vines and Become Immense in hand.

Elves - 2-1
We have a long game, meaning that he stabilizes and wins.
G2 he is more slow, and my submerge helps a lot. Agent for the beats.
G3 was 4realz. I attack him on 3 psn with nexus. He goes off with dudes but "only" manages to end his turn with Ruric Thar with reach and 6-damage-triggers for blocks.
I draw berserk to pair with my invigorate. Attack with dual noble trickers makes my inkmoth a power (1+2+4)x2=14 after blocks. Thar takes 6 and he takes 8 himself for 11 PSN. win.

D&T - 2-1
I keep risky hand with no blue mana and blue cards and pendel+forest.
I see no blue lands in many turns and he just builds up a board with mothers, SFM, and jitte. I lose brutally.

G2 I go trop, noble.
He goes plains, STP, which I daze.
I play trop, sylvan and pass.
He goes land, revoker on noble.
I draw some cards off of sylvan, play second trop, and go
He goes port which he activates in my upkeep. Sadly for him, I had Teferi's Response in response. In other words he taps a land, wastes own port, spend a turn for me to save my land and draw two cards. INSANE!
The game pretty much ends for him here due to all my card advantage. In the same turn i claim his revoker and play glist off of noble. Shortly after I win.
G3 was waste, vial, go.
I go land, noble i think. He draws no land and i waste his waste and drops infect dudes. He vials in Canonist and later a Thalia on 0 mana which means im safe from any STPs he might draw. I choose not to use my
krosan on any of them and takes out his vial on 2. Leaving him with vial 1, thalia, canonist. At this point my agent just keeps beating and wins me the game.

Elves - 2-1
I get him to 5 psn counters, but he eventually goes off with me having the next turn kill in hand (become immense).. awww..
G2 I turn 3 kill him easily.
G3 my hand is crop, trop, invi and some other stuff. He goes land, elf.
I draw a second invigorate and plays my trop. go.
He goes lands and two more elves. At this point im thinking that my only way to kill him turn two is if i top deck a third invigorate.
I draw for the turn: invigorate... Activate inkmoth with second land, triple invigorate. I Win. Dat feeling!

Very exciting games all of them. Total score 5-1, netting me a 2. place of 22. :)

Great posts on Sideboarding btw.

[poxy14]

@neffy: amazing finish! goodjob! and the matchups are great (DnT and Elves)! MUD is a good matchup too! especially when we are on the play, aggresively mull for fow as u dont want them to connect their chalices, they dont interact well with creatures and even on chalice 1, we can go BERSERK without berserk via become immense and invigorates.. vines shld come out when sideboarding as it is easy dead on cotv 1. be careful too with forgemaster as it can fetch that hated platinum angel : )

one good way to fuel our double become immense (aside from tons of cantrips) is this...
ex. fetch to trops, sac trops via croprot, get fetch then fetch again : ) 4 cards in gy that fast!

[Neffy]

one good way to fuel our double become immense (aside from tons of cantrips) is this...
ex. fetch to trops, sac trops via croprot, get fetch then fetch again : ) 4 cards in gy that fast!

Yeah that was my plan at one point against one of the elves players, but i could only get 4 in the yard and needed 5 and mana to activate my nexus. So i had to pass and get overrun by incredible large green men.. great combat trick indeed.

[Jesture]

Congrats on second place, Neffy!

Unless the MIRACLE player is carrying a trops in his deck, and that's very unlikely.. this is where i would want to insert something like a DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE (though just on a brief effect) comes in. Ive had success too in sideboarding SURGICALS vs MIRACLES, since it can hit stuffs like stp, brainstorms, terminus. I dont board out FOWS since its still very valuable midgame even on losing 1 card.. dazes shld all go, i even board out vines...if he stps, i'll just pierce it...pierce provides defense vs both stp and terminus and spells like counterbalances/explosives/early senseis/jtms more often so than dazes/vines., but i do agree with you, everything is SITUATIONAL and meta gaming is a big key here, having the right helpers game 2 and 3 can bring W's!

Does Counterbalance not give you trouble? Vapor Snag (really, -1 life?), Spell Pierce, and Surgical Extraction are all 1 drops, making them difficult to resolve through Counterbalance. Also, Spell Pierce has almost no functionality outside the first 3-4 turns against Miracles, you rarely get to "just pierce it" anytime outside of the early game. I understand boarding out some number of Vines for these reasons, but it seems counter-intuitive to cut CMC 1 pump spells just to replace them with CMC 1 utility spells. Our matchup is favorable, but Miracles is a deck that only gets stronger as the game goes longer. In this regard, we'd rather have spells that speed up our clock over spells that prolong our loss.

[poxy14]

Does Counterbalance not give you trouble? Vapor Snag (really, -1 life?), Spell Pierce, and Surgical Extraction are all 1 drops, making them difficult to resolve through Counterbalance. Also, Spell Pierce has almost no functionality outside the first 3-4 turns against Miracles, you rarely get to "just pierce it" anytime outside of the early game. I understand boarding out some number of Vines for these reasons, but it seems counter-intuitive to cut CMC 1 pump spells just to replace them with CMC 1 utility spells. Our matchup is favorable, but Miracles is a deck that only gets stronger as the game goes longer. In this regard, we'd rather have spells that speed up our clock over spells that prolong our loss.

Probably i got the boarding strategy from 2 of my teammates who plays miracles well, they told me upon discussion that they sideout some cbtoplock pieces anticipating krosans, and it does nothing vs inkmoth.. so they load up on removals. It's been very helpful to me to add pierces vs vines, though both at 1cc, pierce can function as fow fodder too midgame.

oh and what i mean bout the "DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE" is they have use vs any creature deck that doesnt carry forest, unlike submerge that is just useful vs bug/elves and have no use vs PEACEKEEPER in miracles.

[Jesture]

Probably i got the boarding strategy from 2 of my teammates who plays miracles well, they told me upon discussion that they sideout some cbtoplock pieces anticipating krosans, and it does nothing vs inkmoth.. so they load up on removals. It's been very helpful to me to add pierces vs vines, though both at 1cc, pierce can function as fow fodder too midgame.

oh and what i mean bout the "DISMEMBER, VAPOR SNAG or a REALITY RIPPLE" is they have use vs any creature deck that doesnt carry forest, unlike submerge that is just useful vs bug/elves and have no use vs PEACEKEEPER in miracles.

I don't doubt that your friends are experienced Miracles players, but it doesn't seem like they're playing Peacekeepers in their Sideboards. If they're siding in removal and you're boarding out Vines, that probably means they're bringing in sweepers (Terminus, Supreme Verdict, Pyroclasm), which have very poor synergy with Peacekeeper.

Submerge is 5 CMC. Its use is to put Peacekeeper on top of the opponent's library while playing around Counterbalance. Granted it's not easy to hard cast, but against a deck like Miracles it's not too difficult to hit 5 mana. Submerge is strong enough against green decks to warrant multiple sideboard slots in my meta. That said, I wouldn't put it in my 75 with Miracles specifically in mind, it's just what I happen to have on hand that works for me in this matchup. I tend to not play Dismember, Vapor Snag, or Reality Ripple in the board because the first two are objectively bad cards in the deck and I just don't own a copy of the third to test with.

From your sideboard I get the feeling your meta doesn't play a lot of Peacekeeper, which is totally understandable. Postboard Miracles that play Peacekeeper bring him in along with extra counter magic to protect him while he's being cast. Once he hits, they don't ever use him to attack, they just top until they find Jace, then use Jace ultimate to win the game. While a traditional Miracles list might bring in more removal, a list with Peacekeeper would opt to play a faster game and bring in more counter magic. They don't bring in extra removal because they don't care about your creatures, they have a 3 mana card that wins them the game.

Let me know your thoughts on this, I'm curious to know what the Miracles lists look like in your meta.

[poxy14]

Let me know your thoughts on this, I'm curious to know what the Miracles lists look like in your meta.

So far i havent faced any PEACEKEEPER from both of them yet, though 1 pilot has a sideboard on it and the other one doesnt. And i've had battles too with other pilots and i dont see them very often, i mean peacekeepers. I guess most of the MIRACLES pilots here tend to carry other sb help instead of the white creature. Well, if in case it shows up alot, i might have to bring in dismember or reality ripple to my sideboards again. I agree with you that submerge is castable vs this wasteland-less grindy matchup, but by the time we have 5 manas already to cast it, we are making ourselves weak vs opposing pierces.

Postboard Miracles that play Peacekeeper bring him in along with extra counter magic to protect him while he's being cast. Once he hits, they don't ever use him to attack, they just top until they find Jace, then use Jace ultimate to win the game. While a traditional Miracles list might bring in more removal, a list with Peacekeeper would opt to play a faster game and bring in more counter magic. They don't bring in extra removal because they don't care about your creatures, they have a 3 mana card that wins them the game.

very good point!

MUD can also bring out PLATINUM ANGEL, a much problematic card since it can serve a clock too, but then again by carrying artifact hate we have options vs this, not unlike PEACEKEEPER that is hard to beat once resolved vs us.

here’s how i board out vs miracles

- 3 vines (counterspells can save us both from spot removal, mass removals (except Sverdict), artifacts, enchantments and planewalkers)
- 3 dazes (miracles are land heavy, not much of an effect vs them)
- 2 nobles (will only be on the bottom too on a resolved terminus)
- 1 ponder (slot i often use to insert in sylvan)
- 1 probe

+ 3 counterspells (fow, negate, pierce)
+ 1 sylvan lib. (abuse it here!)
+ 1 krosan grip / + 1 naturalize
+ 2 pithing needles (i always take note of enemy fetches too during games, probes + needle are very good combo)
+ 2 surgicals (blanks snapcasters, provides info too and i love hitting early brainstorms vs this deck!)

[Neffy]

I dont either like the idea of boarding a 5CMC Submerge in against miracles. It seems just for lolz and if you hit five lands at some point, they at least have four and that is often too late for us.

I really like the idea of surgicals vs miracles. I've been adding 2 to my board lately, but havent faced any miracle players, but I recon that it can be quite advantageous if you snap their STPs or Termini.
Is vines really that bad? It doesnt take care of counterbalance or terminus, sure. But it does blank 4/8 removal spells they have (not counting supreme verdict as you should not allow them to get to 4 mana).

I board a singleton piracy charm that can take care of peacekeepers, but thats it. Never faced one, tho...

[poxy14]

Is vines really that bad? It doesnt take care of counterbalance or terminus, sure. But it does blank 4/8 removal spells they have (not counting supreme verdict as you should not allow them to get to 4 mana).

VINES, vs MIRACLES in inviting a 2 for 1, i paid the price of over committing my pumps, trying to avoid longer games, going all-in several times and then he just draws into terminus. sure it does protect our clock, but same goes with pierces and other counters we have.. the issue with vines vs miracles is that we have better options for this that can deal with other hurtful things like terminus, entreat, jace, ee, cbtoplock.. and that’s why i run a 2 becomme immense config., as it avoids cbtoplock and makes us still explosive even when we drop vines.

[M+1]

Once he hits, they don't ever use him to attack

He can't attack ;-)

[jimirynk]

Does anyone have Tom Rosses most updated list?

[DARK_r3ck0n1ng]

Hi everyone, been playing infect for around a year or so now in both modern and legacy, just wanted to know what your thoughts are on breading pools vs tropical islands in legacy. I personally find that they do not matter too much in most match-ups as the two life isn't a very big deal when I only need to hit them for ten. I have noticed that Delver decks and Burn they are not very good to have. What are your thoughts?

(yes, i do know bouncing breading pool with daze is very good)

[datanaga]

Hi everyone, been playing infect for around a year or so now in both modern and legacy, just wanted to know what your thoughts are on breading pools vs tropical islands in legacy. I personally find that they do not matter too much in most match-ups as the two life isn't a very big deal when I only need to hit them for ten. I have noticed that Delver decks and Burn they are not very good to have. What are your thoughts?

(yes, i do know bouncing breading pool with daze is very good)

If your plan is to play full playset of breeding pools, I can't recommend it, because you can't afford to play tap lands and you will usually fetch at least for 2 duals every game and play at least one daze, so it is about -6 life total EVERY game, this is huge for deck with minimum ways to protect his life totals and you will loose games against aggresive decks because of it. Your fetches and probes already cost you life points.

EDIT: if you have been playing infect in legacy for around one year now, you should know very well how pools works for you:) at serious tournament i still can not imagine playing pools instead of tropicals.

[SaberTooth]

Played yesterday in a 61 person tournament and made top 8 (we splited the prices) beat death and taxes, affinity, ur delver and 4 color delver, the deck was a blast. i had a little luck but well, you cant win in magic without a little bit of it

[DARK_r3ck0n1ng]

If your plan is to play full playset of breeding pools, I can't recommend it, because you can't afford to play tap lands and you will usually fetch at least for 2 duals every game and play at least one daze, so it is about -6 life total EVERY game, this is huge for deck with minimum ways to protect his life totals and you will loose games against aggresive decks because of it. Your fetches and probes already cost you life points.

EDIT: if you have been playing infect in legacy for around one year now, you should know very well how pools works for you:) at serious tournament i still can not imagine playing pools instead of tropicals.

yes, i do understand that which is why I felt that going with shocks can make delver and burn a must worse match-up since I sometimes have to bolt myself in order to play a brainstorm or a line in that stead.

However, last saturday I went 5-0-1 at a shop in connecticut coming in first place using breading pools. match-ups were post, D&T, post, mirror, omnisciene, ID rw painter

[Deckerator]

I am going to play a small tournament with infect this friday using 3 Trops and 1 Breeding Pool. Lets see how it works ;)

Congratz to both of you for your finishes. Maybe you can give us a small report? I would be interested in it ;)

[datanaga]

However, last saturday I went 5-0-1 at a shop in connecticut coming in first place using breading pools. match-ups were post, D&T, post, mirror, omnisciene, ID rw painter

Congrats on your finish, I must agree that in meta like this is OK to play pools over trops, becasue life total doesn't matter at all:)

[poxy14]

@dark reckoning and sabertooth: congrats on another amazing finish for us, TEAM INFECT : ) i'll wait for decklists and short reports on your matchups, thanks!

regarding breeding pool and trops... if on a budget, it's understandable to play pools, but if we can hit trops, then it's the top of line land we need to carry. though we really are not concerned bout our own life, sometimes the 2 damage matters, or even the fetches and probes makes a huge difference in some match-ups... i would recall surviving an emrakul attack once, i have double probes and short of pumps still with my blighted, i probed, paid 2 life, sees the combo coming...on my second probe i did however paid mana so somehow even with 15damage (i have lots of permanents that game) i would still survive the attack and kill him nextturn..

and by carrying pools, you really dont want to be paired with any delver/red decks...coz it's gonna be real fast.