[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Dziga Murnau]

Got some questions about Doomsday sb. Is it possible to side in just Shelldock part if we are sure that opponent won't let us play Tendrils route anyway? It's like 3 Doomsday, 2 Tops, Shelldock, 1 CoV/PN, leaving 4 Shallow Grave, 1 Griselbrand, 3 Entomb in the MB? I guess it's too fragile, but in this case we keep the option of onion burst on 1-2 turn, if our opponent can't draw gravehate. (will try it)
And - is there an option of Maniac win? I think, I'm just too bad at counting to 10 with Tendrils...

[Kathal]

Got some questions about Doomsday sb. Is it possible to side in just Shelldock part if we are sure that opponent won't let us play Tendrils route anyway? It's like 3 Doomsday, 2 Tops, Shelldock, 1 CoV/PN, leaving 4 Shallow Grave, 1 Griselbrand, 3 Entomb in the MB? I guess it's too fragile, but in this case we keep the option of onion burst on 1-2 turn, if our opponent can't draw gravehate. (will try it)
And - is there an option of Maniac win? I think, I'm just too bad at counting to 10 with Tendrils...

To lazy to write it down, so I just copied it:

-If you have IU, LED, GP or SDT in play or hand you can add a chant/discard spell in for just its mana cost-

--Cantrip pile--

In Hand: DR, DD, LED, GP
In Play: B source
-->DR, DD
IU
LED
GP
SDT
LabMan
-->LED, GP resp crack LED for UUU, IU, LED, Top, GP resp crack LED for UUU, LabMan, activate Top for the win.

------------------------------------------------------------------

--Pass the turn pile--
-If you pass the turn twice, you can beat 1 piece of removal-

(U)(U)(1) + 2 life available post Doomsday

-->Doomsday -
IU
SDT
GP
LED
LM
-->pass the turn, Ideas Unbound, LED, Sensei's Top, Gitaxian Probe resp crack LEDs for UUU, Lab man, activate top for the win.

Greetings,
Kathal

[.dk]

Got some questions about Doomsday sb. Is it possible to side in just Shelldock part if we are sure that opponent won't let us play Tendrils route anyway? It's like 3 Doomsday, 2 Tops, Shelldock, 1 CoV/PN, leaving 4 Shallow Grave, 1 Griselbrand, 3 Entomb in the MB? I guess it's too fragile, but in this case we keep the option of onion burst on 1-2 turn, if our opponent can't draw gravehate. (will try it)
And - is there an option of Maniac win? I think, I'm just too bad at counting to 10 with Tendrils...

I'm not sure what you mean by certain they won't let you play Tendrils? We run so much discard... But anyway, lets say it is. I don't see why what you suggest wouldn't work, however I would fear that you're diluting both halves of the plans too much. Seems like you're going to be relying on LDV a lot here. And if you're on a reanimation plan at all, I can't see it being right to ever have less than 3 Entombs.

If you want to win with Lab Maniac, then I would suggest replacing the Tendrils in the Maindeck with Lab Maniac. You can win off of infinite draws with Griselbrand and Children of Korlis with Maniac just like tendrils, but is more vulnerable than Tendrils in the maindeck. There are some posts/ideas about 50 pages back on it if you wanted to search for it. If you're going to do that, you may consider finding room for a Chromatic Sphere in the 75 somewhere though to be able to win "removal proof."

[KaiSchafroth]

Caleb D has vids going up with TinFins; figured I would share for the sake of sharing

Link to Youtube playlist

[Acclimation]

Caleb D has vids going up with TinFins; figured I would share for the sake of sharing

Link to Youtube playlist

2 Children? 4 Griselbrand? 2 Mox?

Tormod's in the sideboard?

What am I watching?

[KaiSchafroth]

2 Children? 4 Griselbrand? 2 Mox?

Tormod's in the sideboard?

What am I watching?

Yeah, I wasn't crazy about some of the choices myself but I know folks are always trying different iterations of lists based on their personal thoughts/experiences.

[.dk]

Trying new configurations is a good thing. I can see an argument for 4 Griselbrands. 2 Children seems odd though. I haven't watched the videos, but if Caleb was running Liliana's like he said he was on Twitter, then 4 Griselbrands make sense. Kind of like when I've run Careful Study in the past - if you're looking to discard Griselbrand as an enabler to supplement Entomb, then run more. Whether or not it's BEST... I don't know. Some of that depends on your sideboard plan as well.

[Ellomdian]

What am I watching?

Someone streaming online, which I am assuming you aren't doing if you're watching it

Seriously though, nothing wrong with trying different card choices. I'm always excited to see people play fun decks on streams - it's like TWoo, only not nearly as brain-melting to watch.

[Richard Cheese]

Trying new configurations is a good thing. I can see an argument for 4 Griselbrands. 2 Children seems odd though. I haven't watched the videos, but if Caleb was running Liliana's like he said he was on Twitter, then 4 Griselbrands make sense. Kind of like when I've run Careful Study in the past - if you're looking to discard Griselbrand as an enabler to supplement Entomb, then run more. Whether or not it's BEST... I don't know. Some of that depends on your sideboard plan as well.

I don't really get the Liliana angle, seems like it would be more suited to traditional Reanimator. Still, like I usually say: if your list is winning games, then stick with it. Anything that puts up consistent results is fair game for discussion.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Turn 1 rit -> lili -> +1 pitching Griz is a setup for a turn 2 combo with a form of protection (2 turns of discard if lili +1 before combo). It's not 2x Thoughtseize or anything amazing as far as that goes, but lili could be an option against heavy control like miracles. Landing her on turn 1/2 feels good against that imho.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Pomegrant]

From watching, I also felt that the Liliana was pretty powerful but I think if you were attempting to play the deck for speed, it isn't the route you want. However, since the metagame has shifted more towards disruptive decks, Liliana could be a great choice in grinding out games. It can deal with Delver threats as well forcing them to discard their disruption. I'm not sure I am thrilled about using fast mana to cast a Liliana, but the way he plays the deck is much more dependent on looping the Emrakul for a kill. It's an interesting variation for sure.

[Ancestral]

i play the deck recently and don´t participate much in this threath but i will do more now fowerd! i play the tin fins/doomsday plan and it feells awesome, and thats because tin fins has an incredible matchup G1 against almost all the decks, and wins so much more with speed than with lilianas in my point of view! and now other question, do you guys think that tin fins can be a really good deck for big tournaments since TC is ban now?

ps: i m new to this deck but i play miracles (and other decks for fun in my lgs) for over 3 years

[.dk]

From watching, I also felt that the Liliana was pretty powerful but I think if you were attempting to play the deck for speed, it isn't the route you want. However, since the metagame has shifted more towards disruptive decks, Liliana could be a great choice in grinding out games. It can deal with Delver threats as well forcing them to discard their disruption. I'm not sure I am thrilled about using fast mana to cast a Liliana, but the way he plays the deck is much more dependent on looping the Emrakul for a kill. It's an interesting variation for sure.

Rit -> Lili into T2 win is no doubt powerful. My concern is that the deck is just not really set up to grind. We run very few basics, and truly very few lands all together. I'm always very concerned about wasteland once the games go long as we can be pretty vulnerable.

Again, I haven't watched the videos, but I believe (from a twitter conversation with Caleb) that he cut search pieces (probe, ponders) for Lili's. So, we have a reduced chance of finding more combo pieces if our disruption/protection isn't good enough. This also seems to be a bit of a challenge with grinding.

Lili can be a very powerful tool for disruption and enabling (particularly against Delver decks like you mentioned) - but it does change the build a lot. It might be the right choice in the current meta - just needs testing and tweaking to come up with an optimal list.

I'm not sure how powerful it is against Miracles though, as you're never going to nab Counterbalance with her.

[Koby]

The Youtube link is just him playing an old list. This past Twitch broadcast seems far more interesting:

http://www.twitch.tv/calebdmtg/v/3908151

[mainactivenet]

RUG / BUG delver match up for my tin fins deck is really bad, do you have some ideas how play against cheap counterspells?
What do you think about Defense grid in sideboard? Or Liliana of the veil looks more interresting vs delvers?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Lots of discard.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[.dk]

RUG / BUG delver match up for my tin fins deck is really bad, do you have some ideas how play against cheap counterspells?
What do you think about Defense grid in sideboard? Or Liliana of the veil looks more interresting vs delvers?

BUG is a terrible matchup for most combo decks - and even worse for this one. You have to fight through Deathrite, Discard, and Counterspells. Liliana certainly has some use to take the pressure off by killing delvers and deathrites. That could be right. Generally if BUG Delver is the best/most popular deck, I just don't play Tin Fins.

Defense grid... try it and tell us?

[KaiSchafroth]

do you guys think that tin fins can be a really good deck for big tournaments since TC is ban now?

Depending what your definition of 'big tournament is' and comfort level it certainly can be.

See .dk's t64 at GP NJ

[Richard Cheese]

On paper I don't like Lili here. With 13/14 lands and access to mana post-reanimation being of critical importance, I just don't feel like it's worth burning an early Ritual for, or getting 3 lands together for.

T1 as a discard outlet? Therapy/Thoughtsieze are already in the deck for a reason, and assuming you had a ritual and the reanimation spell, a turn faster.

With limited mana, really I think she's just going to run into Daze more often than not.

[Karhumies]

There's more and more MD deathrite around combined with MD spot discard. What would be an elegant solution to battling MD Deathrites for game 1?