I play enchantress, that Foul-Toungue Shriek won't help. Due to most of the cards we run and main decked prevents any attempts from even being attacked.
Elephant Grass, Moat and/or Sphere of Safety being the culprit.
This is not main-deck material > no argument there.Originally Posted by Que
But where I think the discussion is at;
Against decks like Storm, this card potentially locks them out of a combo turn should they be unable to remove it, given many storm decks would be unable to take more than a single -10 life trigger. In some control matches, same-same situation.
Against a deck like Reanimator (considering they run Reanimate and fetches) this might make for some interesting plays....
I think this above is the only reason to consider the card myself, the FKZ-haste-nature of the card is only in addition to this.
I'm not sure when I'd ever want to Dread Return Kolaghan over other targets.
If I want to finish off my opponent in one swing, FKZ does it with less zombies.
If I want to lock my opponent out of casting spells, Iona completely shuts them off of a color. She's useless versus Storm as she only blasts for 10 on creatures and planeswalker spells
I'm sure there are some cases where she's better, but I don't see her as being good enough to replace anything.
Honestly the only reanimation targets I think about adding to my 75 are a second Ashen Rider or a Sire of Insanity. I don't see the Elder Dragon being a better alternative to FKZ or Iona which are the two cards it would displace.
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
Dragonlord Kolagan only triggers for creatures and planeswalker cards , so it's useless against storm and reanimator.
I think Kolagan pros over FKZ is only being potential ichorid food, but needs more tokens to win with
Very well put. My mistake.
Anyway, guys, I did place a disclaimer: don't think any would make to the 75.
Just wanted to discuss the new set. They always bring more to the other decks than to us. But still, I always have faith that they will bring something in the future to help us protect from all the hate.
Cya
Against Reanimator, you'd be right most of the time, if not all.
But against Storm I disagree. How often can a Storm player churn out a combo turn without playing more than one card that is already in the graveyard, given that in order for us to have the Dragon in play, we've already cast Cabal Therapy on their arse?
I'm thinking they're gonna be severely constricted in what lines play they could pursue without just somehow removing the Dragon.
LOL. Sire of Insanity I came up against in a mirror some months ago > was very funny. I can see that card being a great choice in some matchups.
I tend to agree. The new dragon isn't one I'll be buying soon, but I might do some testing with a proxy. Wait and see which matchups it has some use.
You guys need to learn to read cards before posting some rant about how good a card would be for some match up its actually irrelevant in.
Wtf. yes.
Creature or planeswalker has nothing to do with combo. This card sucks.
I never said the card was great, or even considerable.
But last time I checked Tinder Wall was in a Storm deck.
Elves is essentially a combo deck.
Then why arguing so much to defend it? (:
I don't see any major contenders from the new set.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
Hello eveyone, this is my first post here.
I've been playing dredge for quite some time, but recently have been having thoughts about a potentially different strategy.
I will be testing soon, a dredge deck with 3 Griselbrand and 3 Dread Return in the main.
Off the top of my head, I assume it'll look something like this:
3 Griselbrand
3 Dread Return
4 Therapy
4 Bridge From Below
4 Putrid Imp
3 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
2 Bloodghast
4 Tolarian Winds
4 Carefulstudy
12 Dredgers
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Cephalid Colleasum
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Mana Confluence
1 Dakmore Salvage
Notable things that are not in the list:
LED. It's an awesome card that I almost always side out. I've found post board it's better for me to be cautious rather than explosive. I feel Dredge still be powerful enough without LED to the unprepared main deck of our opponent.
Faithless Looting. Undeniably great even without LED. This may be one I shouldn't cut.
Breakthrough. I like Tolarian Winds in the face of Deathrite Shaman. Discard then draw, it's just harder to disrupt.
There are a lot of decks out there that can't deal with a 7/7 flying lifelinker and definitely not more than one with lots of zombies. It's just as guaranteed to kill as FKZ or anything else we've played. Filling hand/bin with Therapy and Bridges, Ichorids and Bloodghasts(basically my Narcomoeba 4&5 with bonus) or G-daddy again means our opponent needs a lot of help to get out ahead.
Please let me know if you think of anything one could change, while preserving this plan of attack, or if it'll work at all.
I'll have some time soonish to start testing, so any feedback on the deck building will be appreciated, thanks!
Not sure about the others but I win most of G1's mainly due to explosiveness of the LED's. Cutting them completely doesn't seem a good idea. Also not sure how you are going to support 2x Bloodghast with only 4x Paradise. Breakthrough have always been awesome to me. And 3 DR only fat targets seem too much. I am playing single Gris (getting replaced with Iona or Elesh after sb). But that's just me.
So I'm planning to attend a SCG IQ this weekend in hopes of qualifying for the New Jersey Invitational.
My main deck is fairly standard Quadlaser except -1 Putrid Imp, -1 Thug, - 1 Breakthrough, +1 Darkblast, +1 DR, +1 Iona. Darkblast is there because I feel Young Pyromancer decks are getting a little too popular on MTGO and I'm not sure how big they are in paper.
I like my main deck but with regards to my sideboard, I just can't decide on what anti-hate package I want to bring. I have 7 slots to work with, the rest of my sideboard I'm happy with.
I have access to: Nature's Claims, Ingot Chewers, Wispmares, Vapor Snags, Abrupt Decays, Ancient Grudges, and Unmasks.
I'm not sure what the meta will be. If anyone plays at Curio Cavern and can give me a better idea of what to prepare for I'd greatly appreciate it. I haven't been to the store in a really long time.
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
Where is the tightest current version of the LED dredge deck? I've looked at the initial post and the LED example list is from 2012.
Thanks
The only new card to consider in these 3 years is city of Brass 2.0, which is why people say the list is tight - it's a highly linear deck which means that1 Flayer of the Hatebound
2 Ichorid
3Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
3 Dread Return
4 Breakthrough
4 Faithless Looting
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tarnished Citadel
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
a) It has very stringent, bizarre standards for a card to playable, and
b) it doesn't have a lot of room to maneuver around metagame changes
Hence why the thread feels dead, half the games are a blowout and the other half come down to whether your opponent draws leyline or whatever, and then everybody goes back to discussing whether you want 13 or 14 lands, or 11 or 12 dredgers, 2 or 3 Dread Returns
-4 Putrid Imp
-1 Dread Return
-1 Flayer of the Hatebound
+1 Golgari Thug
+1 Careful Study
+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Ichorid
+1 Griselbrand
+1 Rainbow Land (and fix the manabase now that you can play Confluence)
A lot of this fine-tuning feels a bit like personal preference. To taste you could cut any of these +1s to put some of the Putrid Imps back in. Flayer is a worse DR target than Griselbrand imo and I wouldn't play more than 2 Dread Returns.
I think Kolaghan is interesting as an FKZ alternative
- Better without a bunch of zombies
- Is black
But I don't think it's correct to play either of them atm
Dragonlord Kolaghan is an interesting pick over Flame-Kin Zealot, but I think Flame-Kin is a little better here because if they Swords away the FKZ at the end of your pre-combat main phase, your zombie tokens still have +1/+1 and haste, whereas if that happens to Kolaghan you're flat out of luck. In a meta that doesn't use a lot of white or where burn is more prevalent, she might be better.
So I've taken down 2 back to back SCG IQs with this list:
Creature (23)
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
Enchantment (4)
4x Bridge from Below
Instant & Sorcery (17)
3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
1x Darkblast
1x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
Land (12)
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence
Artifact (4)
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Sideboard (15)
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Ashen Rider
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
2x Ingot Chewer
2x Nature's Claim
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Wispmare
Combined Win-Loss-Draw between the 2 tournaments: 11-2-1
Its the 75 I plan to bring with me to the DC Open and NJ Invitational. I'm curious as to what peoples' thoughts on my list are.
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
I could see myself going -1 Putrid +1 Breakthrough
What is Darkblast usually for that you think it's worth maining over the 4th Golgari Thug?
HOw do you sideboard against the DTB?
Darkblast is because I expect a significant amount of Young Pyromancer decks to show up at the Open and Invitational. While I haven't played against Young Pyromancer decks at the IQs, Darkblast has served as a way to hamstring Delver decks, slow down Elves, hurt D&T, and kill at least one main deck Scavenging Ooze.
Grixis Control
-3 Breakthrough
-4 LED
+1 Dread Return
+1 Elesh Norn
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Ingot Chewer
+2 Firestorm (maybe)
I haven't had many opportunities to play against Grixis Control yet so I'm not sure if I want the Firestorms or I'd rather keep 2 LEDs in the deck. Like most control decks I'm expecting a long grindy match so I cut my "All In" cards.
Miracles
-3 Breakthrough
-4 LED
+2 Wispmare
+2 Nature's Claim
+3 Firestorm
Cut my "all in" cards, LED is too easy to counterbalance. I bring in my enchantment hate for RIP. Why Firestorm? Even if its countered I get to discard my cards. It kills Angels, Venser, Clique, Containment Priest, and SFM. I keep my Darkblast in as I can cast it on my own creatures to get a dredger in the yard and if they try and exile my Bridges I can Blast my own creature in response to still get zombies.
Omnitell
-3 Putrid Imp
-1 Ichorid
-1 Darkblast
+1 Dread Return
+2 Wispmare
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Ashen Rider
I cut my slower cards as I expect this game to be mostly a combo race. I bring in my enchantment hate for Omniscience and for Leylines. Wispmare and Ashen Rider both trigger to kill the Omni. If I land Iona on Blue, they have very few ways to win.
Death & Taxes
-3 Breakthrough
-4 LED
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Nature's Claim
+3 Firestorm
+2 Wispmare
More or less the same way I side for Miracles, just Firestorms to kill their creatures rather than just as a discard outlet. I expect to overwhelm them with a swarm of zombies rather than combo out with Iona. Sometimes I mess around with the Nature's Claim/Wispmare split, it depends on what I see game 2. I once got hit with Faerie Macabre out of D&T, it was unexpected.
BUG Delver
-3 Breakthrough
-3 LED
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Ingot Chewer
+3 Firestorm
This I expect to come down to a war of attrition. After sideboarding the only thing I'm really worried about is them getting out a big Goyf while I have don't have them forced to block each turn. If they have Night of Soul's Betrayal or Leyline for game 2 I play it out to see what other graveyard hate they have and adjust my Artifact/Enchantment hate ratio accordingly.
Esper Stoneblade/Deathblade
-3 Breakthrough
-4 LED
+2 Nature's Claim
+2 Ingot Chewer
+3 Firestorm
Jeskai Stoneblade
-3 Breakthrough
-4 LED
+2 Nature's Claim
+2 Wispmare
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Firestorm
The Blade decks are more or less the same sideboard-wise, just Jeskai is more likely to play Enchantment based hate.
Unknown
-1 Breakthrough
-1 LED
-1 Putrid Imp
-1 Golgari Thug
+2 Nature's Claim
+1 Firestorm
+1 Ancient Grudge
This is how I tend to sideboard if I don't know what deck I'm up against. Typically this is because I went off turn 1 or 2 and they conceded in response to Cabal Therapy. I cut 2 all in cards and 2 slower cards and add in my Generic removal, Grudge because artifact hate is more common, and Firestorm because I can always use it as a discard outlet if needed.
I don't always sideboard this way though this is how I sideboard most often. A sideboard guide isn't set in stone and I will sideboard however I feel is most appropriate given the situation.
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
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