Hello guys, I'm working on a slightly different version of the deck and I'd like to know if it would be ok to post it here. My version is based on GBw and uses a slightly different engine, do you think I should create my own post on the developmental section or are you ok with me posting it here?
Hard to say without seeing a list, but without Gamble and Punishing Fire, it seems like a very different take on things. Gamble vs Intuition kinda made the difference between this thread and the RUG-thread, and I can image your list is way more different than both these lands-versions. So you are probably better off creating a new thread for this.Originally Posted by Raystar
Thanks, I'll do that.
It is appearing that we might end up a DTB again. I am very impressed about how well the deck is doing right now, proving it's power. Also with the reprints of expensive lands on MTGO I really am thinking that this deck will start doing well online too.
Right now in paper the deck is about 2.7 grand with a large amount of that in just the Tabernacle. I would not be surprised to start seeing the deck pop up here and there in full sans the Tabernacle. That said, it is still not that much on the relative price of Legacy decks.
A new powerhouse? An awakening thanks to the Treasure Cruise meta perhaps but the deck is not going away. This is a wonderful time to be a Lands player.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Deck to beat = more hate being put into boards haha
How do you guys approach death and taxes post board? Trying to get an early tabernacle seems important since it contains their board presence. It seems they usually sandbag the RIP when they can get some Juicy value from it. Should I keep in tranquil thickets to try and save the loam? Appreciate any advise!
I played a small event yesterday and cashed, along with two other people in the car. The event was 14 (±1) people. The matchups were pretty easy and going into round 4 I was 3-0 and drew with the 1st place guy (Temur Delver) to secure top 4.
I played this:
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
3 Dark Depths
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Maze of Ith
3 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Crop Rotation
2 Manabond
Sideboard:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Primeval Titan
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Choke
1 Cursed Totem
Round 1 I was up against James on UG Infect.
Game 1 is dominated by Maze of Ith. He never connects with an attack and then I make a 20/20. Our joint mulligans favour me more than him.
Game 2 I keep a slow hand with Sphere of Resistance and get punished by drawing another one. I wasn't able to cast it with a Mox so it came down on turn two. It was too late: He was on the play and had creatures in play. He pays for Invigorate and delves an extra spell to make a 12/12 Glistener Elf. Him wasting me off my Taiga early didn't help at all. I couldn't cast any coloured mana spells like Punishing Fire or Life from the Loam. I realize that some of the Spheres should be Chalice of the Void.
Game 3 we both take the mulligan again. My 2 Wasteland, Stage and Depths is just too slow for this matchup. My six cards were much better. So I cut two spheres for two Chalices and then get to battle. I start off with a Mox and a tapped Thicket and get my Exploration forced. He leads with just a land and passes. Pretty strange not to see a 1 mana guy. I punish him with a Sphere of Resistance and then he shows his Glistener Elf. It doesn't matter. I play Tabernacle, light on mana sources. He pays and hits me for 1. He tries to get in five infect by tapping an Inkmoth Nexus forto pay for Invigorate but he's blown out by Crop Rotation for Maze of Ith. The game settles like this for a while with him unable to draw anything while I'm deploying mana-producing lands. The writing is clearly on the wall and he concedes.
1-0
Round 2 was the fastest round I've ever played with this deck. Zane was playing some Sultai concoction (Delver?) and he got dead by double 20/20 in both games. I didn't even take any damage.
2-0
Round 3 was much more intense. Ryan was also on BUG Delver.
Game 1 Sadly, Ryan gets an early Deathrite Shaman that I can't deal with and a flipped Delver. I'm on my last legs at three life when I rip the Dark Depths and take the game. He learns a harsh lesson: You stifle the Stage copy effect and not the Dark Depths 0 counter trigger. Oops, you're dead.
Game 2 I keep another slow one (when will I learn) and get run over by a Delver and Goyf before I can get anything going. I need to stop playing Spheres on the draw!
Game 3 I have Grove and Punishing Fire and acceleration. Snap keep. I fire some things and then he asks if the trigger on Fire is a trigger and may as well have screamed "I HAVE SURGICAL EXTRACTION!". He decides to trade two Deathrite Shamans and his Surgical for my one Punishing Fire, which suits me fine. (Why he didn't extract in response to the Grove trigger I don't know).
So there are no Punishing Fires in my deck. but there are two Primeval Titans, a bunch of Stages and two Dark Depths. We durdle for a while before he plays a puny Goyf and attacks me for 2 and then I resolve Primeval Titan. He had so few resources after making the unfavourable trade of 1 for 3 I knew the one card in his hand was a Stifle revealed earlier to Delver. He did stifle the search trigger but that didn't matter. I had Mazes holding off his team and I could take 3 from a flipped Delver (instead of two 6/7 goyfs) and then just attack him next turn, search up lands and make a 20/20. That's exactly what I did, getting Depths and Tabernacle. He double blocked with Goyfs and I mazed my Titan (ha ha). He asks if he can stack his Delver reveal and Tabernacle trigger favourably for him and I explain that he can since they're all his triggers. He shows me a Ponder and I make a 20/20 with my untapped Stage. He ships in with 1 Delver and 2 Goyfs. I throw my Titan under the Goyf bus and kill the other Goyf with my 20/20 and eat 3 to the face. Then I put him into the Abyss with Merit Liege with Mazes to hold off any counterattack. He finds air and I win 2-1.
Now I'm 3-0 and secure a spot in the top 4 cut along with Hugo who came in the car with us. We ID in round 4 and grab a small bite to eat.
Top 4 is Wilkin (who posts on this forum), myself, Hugo and a Sneak Attack player. We all split and take home $100 store credit. Everyone is out the door by 5pm.
Some lessons learned for myself: The list is very good - I've been making money with it for weeks at high value FNM events (winning a Force of Will a couple weeks ago and losing in round 4 last Friday, where a Goyf was up). I need to find a spot for a Pithing Needle in the sideboard. My matchup against Sneak Attack is rough (played it Friday) and moving to 3 sphere, 1 needle will shore that up some, I think. Overall I'm happy with the deck.
♀
What do you guys think about cutting Glacial Chasm? I know it can win games by itself, but honestly, I haven't been in a situation in at least 20 matches where I needed it. Maybe it is just me (or my meta), but it seems unnecessary at this point.
I have the same feeling, however I think having a panicbutton is pretty nice. I wouldn't cut Chasm unless there is a better panicbutton.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
So true and it's ugly. Have I mentioned that I hate getting spanked by this deck. R/G Lands is the winningest deck in my area in the last month. Perhaps WoTC will print a card that says something like: "Whenever a player puts a nonbasic land on the battlefield, that player takes 2 damage and that player's opponents each get a sandwich."
The lord of rivendell ventures out from the deep elvish woods
That aside, does anyone have any thoughts on the turbo eldrazi MU, it seems harder than it really should (people who play needle maindeck make me feel angry with rage), sure we have the tools to attack their mana (I still have ghost quarter main, which helps) but they can combo is out just fast enough.
I see the matchup as a coinflip, slightly in their favor, between manadenial and a welltimed combofinish versus them slipping through the manadenial (needle, S&T) and dealing with our combo. They have a lot of answers against us, as Needle (Wasteland, Stage, Karakas), crop rotation (fetching Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Vesuva copying Bog), Repeal on Marit Lage.
Game 2 there's Krosan Grip to deal with Needle or Chalice of the Void which shuts down a huge part of their deck, and they usually don't have much extra from the side against us.
Glacial Chasm has won me games against Burn, Elves and even Belcher! Those are matchups though where a chasmloop wins the game.
But I don't think I ever succesfully used it as a panicbutton (things going bad versus a fair deck, getting chasm, and from there on winning). Still, I will definitely keep it in my main.
Last edited by Rivfader; 03-30-2015 at 11:01 AM.
I have heard of people saying that Chasm is a weak card. That "If you go for it, you admit that you have misplayed". I have to disagree, it is the strongest at what it does and some decks can just not answer it. I would only cut it if something better was printed, as that seems unliklely l just keep it around. Mostly because there are some decks that just can not beat it and answers are always good to have. I feel no more shame fetching out Chasm against Elves than I feel fetching out Wasteland against BUG.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
What more can I say? This could be a bumpersticker for R/G Lands, an odious concoction of mean, cruel, and effective.
I mean, sticking my cousins in some frozen chasm . . . as if that were sporting.
Just to build on this, I find that Chasm requires a lot of planning to use. Crop Rotating for it when lethal is on the board is nice to have as an out, but a smart opponent will run out their own Wasteland first or save a counterspell for your Crop Rotation. Since it's so common to get blown out this way, it's almost never correct to use it as a "panic button" against these two types of decks unless you're holding double Crop Rotation to power through a Counterspell, or you have your own Rishadan Port/Wasteland to answer the opposing Wasteland before Crop Rotating (sometimes you need both to stay alive).
With some foresight, you don't need to jump so many hurdles in order to get an effective Glacial Chasm. If you're still digging with Loam and while you still have life to pay the upkeep every other turn, if your opponent has two Goyfs on board and they're tapped out, or if you know they don't have a Wasteland in their deck, it's sometimes correct to tutor our the Chasm during your main phase to buy some extra turns. When you dodge the counterspell and have a healthy life total to play with, the opponent's Wasteland isn't so devastating, especially since you're getting it back next turn.
Here are some matchups where I've found this useful:
Infect - Chasm is your only out in a lot of games. Vines of Vastwood during main phase blanks Maze of Ith. Any non-Berserk pump spell or Pendelhaven blanks Punishing Fire on their combo turn. Play around their Wasteland by holding up Stage to copy Chasm. Find it early, since you'll have your Crop Rotation countered if you wait for the last minute. Don't forget to sacrifice your Forest/Taigas so you can make a 20/20 without worrying about Submerge post-board.
Delver - There's a lot of small windows to find Chasm. Try to read the Delver player's hand and use Crop Rotation to exploit a bad draw. When they Ponder for land and leave cards on top, go for it if you don't think they don't have a Wasteland. If you put them on countermagic, make them counter your Loam a few times before pulling the trigger. If they're holding up counterspells and letting Loam resolve, they're probably not stopping your primary plan game plan. Once you get the recurring Chasm, you can take your time to Wasteland/Tabernacle lock them out of the game or make a 20/20.
TL;DR - Lands is not great as a reactive deck. Chasm steals games if you plan it in advance. This is plan B for when you can't make a 20/20.
This strikes me as good, but also awkward information. Being the control deck, I used to consider Chasm as a last out. The way you present the use of Chasm makes a lot of sense, though. Thank you
Last edited by Chatto; 03-30-2015 at 03:53 PM.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
I have to admit I really enjoy crop rotating into an early Tabernacle or a Chasm in response to a Craterhoof Alphastrike :) There's probably no matchup were Tabernacle and Chasm shine as they do versus Elves ...
Burn is another one of my favorite times for it to shine. I've had multiple burn players read chasm a few times and then still aim a burn spell at me.
Don't I know it. I've been foiled too many times by a rotated Chasm in response to my lovely Natural Order. Like I said before, WoTC needs to print, oh, say, an elf that taps to exile nonbasic lands and runs a hot bath . . . or something like that.
What matchups are people having problems with? I'm having trouble against infect. I can't see how it's a favorable matchup like the primer says, even after playing it 100+ times (it's my brother's pet deck right now). Basically, you need to commit to a game plan as early as turn 2 and hope your opponent can't beat you. Depending on your opening hand, these are your options:
-Grove/Punishing fire soft lock. Loses if infect player has Pendelhaven, Crop Rotation, or 2+ pump spells. Takes three land drops to get online.
-Wasteland/Tabernacle soft lock. Awkward at best. Hierarch pays for itself under Tabernacle. One forest is enough to cast and pay for Glistener Elf. Finding Ghost Quarter before they resolve one is not realistic. Invigorate is also free. If you go for the Wasteland lock, it's very difficult to assemble Depths/Stage quickly.
-Maze of Ith/Glacial Chasm soft lock. Maze of Ith uses a land drop and is completely dead to main phase Vines. They can also find Wasteland more often than you'd think if they see Chasm coming. Finding Chasm early will set you back at least two turns to assemble a win or another one of the above locks since it loses a land, eats a land drop, and probably delays you from casting Loam for one turn.
-Depths/Stage. Chump blocked by Inkmoth Nexus, so you need Port/Wasteland backup. Even then, you can still get chumped if they have Vines. Also loses to Wasteland and Karakas, which they can find with Crop Rotation.
As far as sideboard goes, I board out all but one copy of Maze of Ith, Bojuka Bog, and one copy of Tranquil Thicket. I bring the Depths count to 4 and some amount of Krosan Grip and Pithing Needle. I found that I don't like Sphere, since it slows down your game plan as well. What are your thoughts?
Does anyone else have extensive experience with this matchup?
Side note: I'm 1-0 against ANT at my LGS, my opponent was silly enough to fetch out his Tropical Island with two Spheres in play, so I wasted it and he never could cast Abrupt Decay without running out Lotus Petal first. Still, it's always going to be a terrible matchup and there's not much we can do about it. Sigh.
I find Infect quite manageable, because they're vulnerable to almost everything you run. So many nonbasics for wasteland, all creatures within punishable range, no preboard answers to Marit Lage. That doesn't mean it's an easy matchup, they can kill you very quick, but usually they need more resources to do so than you need to hold them off.
You can look at the matchup in an opposite way: They need to defensively invest resources (crop rotation, Pendelhaven, pumpspells) to beat Punishing Fire, which won't be spent for the offense. They need Vines of Vastwood to bypass Maze of Ith (don't side them out), so that's another card to cantrip for besides infectguys and pump. If you hold on to crop rotation, you can get Glacial Chasm after they pumped their guy with vines (and hopefully berserk) for an alphastrike (unless they have a (hard)counter as well, besides the setup of an infectguy + lethal pumpspells). I think their best shot of winning is in the first few turns, after that they'll have a hard time punching through manadenial, Pfire, maze/chasm, and Marit Lage lurking around the corner.
Last edited by Rivfader; 03-31-2015 at 07:32 AM.
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