[Deck] Goblins

[ScatmanX]

Just throwing my question back in

I'm very happy with eidolon in my sb. Think that 2 might be correct, but only have one.

Got to play my 2nd small tourney this year. Quite hard to find time nowadays.

Played classic build 23 lands, 4x vial, lackey, wachief, matron, ringleader. 3 mwm, Piledriver, Gempalm, tarfire. 2 sgc. 1 tsh, prospector, shooter.
Sb
1 eidolon
1 canonist
3 Thalia
1 seize
1 squad
1 rip
1 relic
1 wear tear
2 k.grip
2 Kinesis
1 stingscourger

Decided sting is not worth md anymore, and am quite happy with it in the sb.
Black splash ia not needed, but squad is awesome and won me some games. Despite that, restrain on the mana base sucks. Will be swapping badlands for 2nd taiga. Shooter will go to the sb and will put a 2nd tsh md.
Rip is gonna be the 2nd relic. And seize and wear tear will be 2 cotv.

R1 rg lands
G1 he plays mox and manabound. T2 I waste his taiga leaving him with just mox, not being able to Loam. Unfortunately I don't kill him fast enough and he locks me out 3 turns later.
G2 I have vial, destroy a Tabernacle, but he makes a 20/20 quite quickly and I didn't find matron for sting.

R2 monou control
Budget deck isn't worth commenting.

R3 Canadian
G1 he has only 2 lands and I have a late vial. Delver eats me and 2 geese wait to grow. I make a mistake with he with 0 cards in hand and 6 on grave, and port his tropical instead of volcanic. Bolt kills my lone Piledriver and I take 9. I have matron trough vial next turn, that would have killed delver and saved me a lot of live. Unfortunately that his took me to 2 and was too late to recover.

G2 he plays delver and I have 1 land and vial. Lackey is dismembered but prospector lives. His to he plays 2nd land and 3/4 goyfs. I have only prospector, 1 land and vial @2. I vial mwm. Upkeep I sac mwm for R, let vial trigger resolve, get matron into play, get Gempalm, and use r floating plus my only land to kill his 3/4 goyf. Felt awesome. Then rough tumble sweeps my board. Ringleader comes along and tarfire kills delver. Next turn Squad takes his 2nd tumble and blots, and he dies shortly.

G3 he gets delver and me vial again. I have tarfire but don't have R for tarfire, so delver gets 4 hits before I kill it. Kind of made me want to have sting here, but guess it was a corner case just to save some life. I get some small dudes, and he tumble. I had Pendleheaven into play to save Lackey,but bolt kills it. Turns out to be crucial later. Matron get in through vial then hits and squad comes down taking down 1x tumble and bolts. He chumps squad. I get lots of dudes. He gets goyf and goose. I get more dudes. Time is called. I build my board for 1 more turn. Then swing. Manage to Gempalm his 6/7 goyf after blocks, and Piledriver traded with goose. I'm left with 4 dudes, but nothing 2 lands in my hand... He has nothing. T4 he draws a blocker. T5 I draw another land, and that's it. He was at 4 life =/

R4 BWg Deathblade
G1 he gets death rite into sculler taking tsh, then liliana going up. Meanwhile I have vial t2, then t3 Warchief takes lili to 2, while I discarded land. Lili kills Warchief and he has no play.
I play land with Piledriver now. He vindicates pilly. I cast ringleader getting matron and something else. He plays a 4th land and batter. I win. Matron gets Gempalm that kills sculler, that gets tsh back that kills batter, and I win shortly after.
G2 his sculler gets k.grip, then hymn gets sgc when vial was at 4, then stone comes down for jitte that takes the game before I can recover.
G3 I mull to 2 lands, Warchief and tarfire. He plays bayou and seize Warchief. I draw land. He doesn't have a 2nd land. T3 I cast matron into squad, that rips jitte and lands. He never drew the 2nd land...

Fun times. Will do the changes I commented on. Lands will probably be 5 fetch, 3 mountain, 4 waste, 3 port, 1 karakas, 2 taiga, 1 plateau, 4 cavern.

[Sandro95]

Went 2-2 today, same list. Beat TES and DnT. Lost to Esper Stoneblade and Elves!
Still trying to figure out where I want to go with the list. Chrome Mox helpes a lot versus combo, but isn't always as good versus other midrange decks.

[jrw1985]

Went 2-2 today, same list. Beat TES and DnT. Lost to Esper Stoneblade and Elves!
Still trying to figure out where I want to go with the list. Chrome Mox helpes a lot versus combo, but isn't always as good versus other midrange decks.

Elves is dreadful. Esper was always a brutal MU when that deck was around and it seems to be poised for a comeback.

[jimmythegreek]

Elves is dreadful. Esper was always a brutal MU when that deck was around and it seems to be poised for a comeback.

I played a few games against my friend playing esper death-blade last night and I concur the match up is brutal. It seems that whatever you do they can answer and eventually kill you with jitte. The cards that really shine in this match up are cavern of souls, tsh and skirk prospector. A fast start followed by ringleaders should do the trick though. I'm on-board with Mr. Scatmanx and I'm excited to try a "classicesque" Rg list with two tsh main. Late game tsh has a decent mana to body ratio when made cheaper by warchief, I can live with a 2/2 goblin for R. Also, very refreshing to play with war Marshall again. Most of the time a more pleasant site in my opening seven in comparison to piledriver. Wondering what people's experiences with warchief and tsh have been like, any tips on playing the two together. Furthermore it's completely fucking insane that wizards hasn't produced a more playable "shatter-goblin" by know......I'm sick of having to choose between tin street the nonbo gobbo and tuk tuk " already two counters on jitte when you cast me" scrapper.

[Stevestamopz]

I played a few games against my friend playing esper death-blade last night and I concur the match up is brutal. It seems that whatever you do they can answer and eventually kill you with jitte. The cards that really shine in this match up are cavern of souls, tsh and skirk prospector. A fast start followed by ringleaders should do the trick though. I'm on-board with Mr. Scatmanx and I'm excited to try a "classicesque" Rg list with two tsh main. Late game tsh has a decent mana to body ratio when made cheaper by warchief, I can live with a 2/2 goblin for R. Also, very refreshing to play with war Marshall again. Most of the time a more pleasant site in my opening seven in comparison to piledriver. Wondering what people's experiences with warchief and tsh have been like, any tips on playing the two together. Furthermore it's completely fucking insane that wizards hasn't produced a more playable "shatter-goblin" by know......I'm sick of having to choose between tin street the nonbo gobbo and tuk tuk " already two counters on jitte when you cast me" scrapper.

Strong lol @ "already two counters on jitte when you cast me." Thank god people are realising how good TSH is. I've been playing 2 TSH main for a while now, and it certainly makes the deathblade matchup better, although it is by no means an easy matchup.

Re: warchief/tin street, just hold back warchief until you've either dealt with the equipment or there's an opportunity for a combo-kill. They won't put an especially fast clock on you, so your plan is to try and grind them out with a combination of removal/board pressure and mana-denial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3aZrfz0ZmY
Game 2 of this matchup shows how it's done. The only mistake Jim makes is not killing Erik with the combo kill at 36:50.

[mrblueduck]

If you guys are having issues with deathblade I would highly recommend a few copies of Magus of the Moon for the sb.

[Brentane]

Is goblins making a comeback in Legacy? Or are they still mediocre?

[jrw1985]

[Stevestamopz]

Or are they still mediocre?

[Chatto]

Now now boys

Let us hear why he ask such weird questions

@Bretane: care to explain your question instead of dropping some remarks?

[Brentane]

Now now boys

Let us hear why he ask such weird questions

@Bretane: care to explain your question instead of dropping some remarks?

I wanted to know because I love how Goblins plays and I think their strategy is hilarious to play (I also love Tribal decks, especially when they can tutor). I was asking because there is a lot of talk about the deck not being viable in the present day Legacy meta at MTGSalvation. Also a lot of players at my LGS (who have a lot of Legacy staples) say it isn't considered a competitive Legacy deck (even though it is cheap to build).

I would love to know if Goblins would be just as / or more powerful then Burn (it's the Red deck I'm gonna be making if Goblins is not viable)

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I wanted to know because I love how Goblins plays and I think their strategy is hilarious to play (I also love Tribal decks, especially when they can tutor). I was asking because there is a lot of talk about the deck not being viable in the present day Legacy meta at MTGSalvation. Also a lot of players at my LGS (who have a lot of Legacy staples) say it isn't considered a competitive Legacy deck (even though it is cheap to build).

I would love to know if Goblins would be just as / or more powerful then Burn (it's the Red deck I'm gonna be making if Goblins is not viable)

I'm not going to lie. Burn is probably a better deck. Goblins hasn't really gotten something deck warping for some time, and it's been rather stale in the competitive scene for a similar amount of time. Stingscourger, Goblin Chieftain, Warren Instigator are our "newest" toys and the last one to come out was Winstigator in 2009. 6 years later and we are still.. running the exact same list. I'd love to turn you over to goblins though. It's far more versatile than burn. You can play the creature game, you can rush, you can grind, you can "draw" some dumb number of cards. About the only thing you can't do is have a good game 1 against storm-- without sacrificing a lot to other match-ups.

But unfortunately so much isn't going right. We need a Shatter goblin. We need a Legacy playable 1 drop that doesn't fight our own game plan. Until that happens though... We need to play tight. Despite all that the deck is very fun and can do some crazy things most other decks can't even come close to accomplishing.

Hope you join us!

[Stevestamopz]

If you guys are having issues with deathblade I would highly recommend a few copies of Magus of the Moon for the sb.

I'm throwing 3 Magus' into my sideboard, seems excellent against the plethora of bug decks right now.

so that's

1 cage
2 relics
1 stingscourger
3 magus
2 krosan grips
3 pyrokinesis
3 REB

[GoboLord]

I'm not going to lie. Burn is probably a better deck. Goblins hasn't really gotten something deck warping for some time, and it's been rather stale in the competitive scene for a similar amount of time. Stingscourger, Goblin Chieftain, Warren Instigator are our "newest" toys and the last one to come out was Winstigator in 2009. 6 years later and we are still.. running the exact same list. I'd love to turn you over to goblins though. It's far more versatile than burn. You can play the creature game, you can rush, you can grind, you can "draw" some dumb number of cards. About the only thing you can't do is have a good game 1 against storm-- without sacrificing a lot to other match-ups.

But unfortunately so much isn't going right. We need a Shatter goblin. We need a Legacy playable 1 drop that doesn't fight our own game plan. Until that happens though... We need to play tight. Despite all that the deck is very fun and can do some crazy things most other decks can't even come close to accomplishing.

Hope you join us!

Want to clarify a few things:

We got Cavern of Souls im 2012 and Krenko in 2013 .

We are not playing the same list since 6 years, because there are at least 2 viable lists that are dramatically different from what people played in times where survival of the fittest and mystical Tutor were Still legal.

Goblins has better combo MUs than burn.

@Bretane:
If you want to start playing goblins, the best reason would be because goblins wins between 80% and 90% of the matches vs. The currently best deck in the format (Miracle Ctrl)

[Stevestamopz]

Goblins has better combo MUs than burn.

Depends on your SB I guess, but Burn has 4 eidolons maindeck and most combo decks cannot beat a resolved eidolon.

[Chatto]

Depends on your SB I guess, but Burn has 4 eidolons maindeck and most combo decks cannot beat a resolved eidolon.

So let us try Eidolon as a SB-option! But I agree that Eidolon has given Burn a much better MU against Combo (or in general if you ask me), when resolved: I won a couple of games on the back of Eidolon.

[LittleGreenGuys]

Want to clarify a few things:

We got Cavern of Souls im 2012 and Krenko in 2013 .

We are not playing the same list since 6 years, because there are at least 2 viable lists that are dramatically different from what people played in times where survival of the fittest and mystical Tutor were Still legal.

Goblins has better combo MUs than burn.

@Bretane:
If you want to start playing goblins, the best reason would be because goblins wins between 80% and 90% of the matches vs. The currently best deck in the format (Miracle Ctrl)

I played some casual games with a friend yesterday, he was play some mono Black control. I recently put Grenzo back in the sideboard thinking that maybe he would be some fun. When we started playing some boarded games I brought him in. My friend plays back to back E-plague, and I nearly just concede after a few turns thinking I have no outs, but I end up finding Grenzo and play him with with 4 counters on it. Managed to get my friend down to 10, then 6, then I activate Grenzo 4 times pretty much just dropping everything in the graveyard because of plague. He has a disc ready to blow up the board and waits till he is at 2 life to activate after my attack step with Grenzo. I then activate Grenzo until im down to one mountain left untapped, get a matron into play from the bottem of my deck, search for tarfire and win the game. I'm thinking he can be useful in our match ups that we win through card advantage, and is rather new.

[Lemnear]

@Bretane:
If you want to start playing goblins, the best reason would be because goblins wins between 80% and 90% of the matches vs. The currently best deck in the format (Miracle Ctrl)

Or you can choose to play D&T which not only has a better manacurve but just doesn't fold to Combo unlike Goblins

[goblinpiledriver]

I played some casual games with a friend yesterday, he was play some mono Black control. I recently put Grenzo back in the sideboard thinking that maybe he would be some fun. When we started playing some boarded games I brought him in. My friend plays back to back E-plague, and I nearly just concede after a few turns thinking I have no outs, but I end up finding Grenzo and play him with with 4 counters on it. Managed to get my friend down to 10, then 6, then I activate Grenzo 4 times pretty much just dropping everything in the graveyard because of plague. He has a disc ready to blow up the board and waits till he is at 2 life to activate after my attack step with Grenzo. I then activate Grenzo until im down to one mountain left untapped, get a matron into play from the bottem of my deck, search for tarfire and win the game. I'm thinking he can be useful in our match ups that we win through card advantage, and is rather new.

I play a mainboard Grenzo and it works out great. Excellent against terminus and clique. More importantly it is a 9th card that turns an iffy hand into a keep (the first 8 being vial and lackey). He's an absolute must-kill in grindy matchups, so I don't mind him eating a removal spell to let my warchiefs live. Being able to pump X into him (plus a bonus counter for each warchief in play) can be very relevant at times.

Your deck should be roughly 50% hits with Grenzo cast for X=0 (or vialed in), so spending the excess mana on him isn't such a bad idea, especially end of opponents turn. You should have plenty of fetches and the set of matrons to get enough shuffles to where ringleader putting blanks on bottom doesn't matter. However, you can abuse this post board if you are running magus of the moon or eidolon - stack those on the bottom after a ringleader and pull them out with Grenzo. Another pitfall that is easy to play around is possibly pulling out a shatter goblin or other ETB effect before you need it, but you can simply not activate Grenzo if you are worried about that.

As a rule of thumb, only activate Grenzo when you have leftover mana. Play from your hand first.

[goblinpiledriver]

Or you can choose to play D&T which not only has a better manacurve but just doesn't fold to Combo unlike Goblins

It has 0 card advantage, save maybe the slow and easily stopped SoFI. Goblins refilling their hands is one of the reasons miracles struggles against them.

In my experience D&T lacks the flexibility and lines that goblins offers. It has less aggressive potential overall, and removal is scarce. It has a handful of neat tricks, but you still rely on your draw and top decks to give you the setup, whereas goblins runs 4x demonic tutor and 4x recall