[Primer] Elves!

[Zombie]

I want to see Elves do well is all. And a field like the Invitational is pretty much full of fair blue decks which Elves is made to munch on so you'd expect people like Ross and Chris to play it there. It's not so much that it's wrong for them to play different stuff as much as I wanted to see Elves and there were none.

[Careve]

Morph two birchlores, turn them face up, BAM green mana

Unmorphing still requires a green mana which is not available unless i have one of the 2-3 forests in my starting hand. I guess i will have to turn to monogreen version, damn those moon+chalice decks :(

[Julian23]

Unmorphing still requires a green mana which is not available unless i have one of the 2-3 forests in my starting hand. I guess i will have to turn to monogreen version, damn those moon+chalice decks :(

In my experience, any deck with Blood Moon and/or Chalice ist either slightly or pretty favorable. Pair me up against MUD or Painter any day of the week, both are a dog to Elves. That includes Painter (slightly favored), MUD (pretty favored), Merfolk (favored) and Dragon Stompy (even, maybe slightly favored).

The way you deal with Blood Moon is simple:

On the play: You don't care a lot about it since you're running 9 Fetchlands and have a good chance to put a second green source to the table (DRS, Quirion Ranger, Heritage Druid, Birchlore Rangers) etc.
On the draw: You accept to just lose to turn1 Moon, it's easy. However, you really want to keep a Fetchland since there is no need to expose yourself to turn2 Blood Moon which is still strong.

Chalice is also not that much of a threat, especially when you're on the play. Chalice decks just die to Natural Order for Progenitus/Behemoth, Visionary recursion, GSZ for Behemoth or Reclamation Sage etc.

Some games that come to mind are e.g. playing against MUD during my BoM '13 win. The guy goes turn1 Chalice@1, turn2 Chalice@2 ...and never got to take his third turn because I killed him on mine. At JK Milano Eternal earlier this month my opponent (on the play) went turn1 Chalice@1, turn2 Blood Moon. He died 5-6 turns later. The lesson is that Stompy-style decks are inherently incosistent and you should not try to distort your sideboard to fight their god draws; especially since their *real* god draws are just much to rare. What is a real god draw? Heavy disruption + pressure. Most of the time, they lack the later (Rakdos Pit Dragon was such a sweet card..) giving you plenty of time to either recover...or most of the time to just outright kill them with Order.

[Shagstaman]

I want to see Elves do well is all. And a field like the Invitational is pretty much full of fair blue decks which Elves is made to munch on so you'd expect people like Ross and Chris to play it there. It's not so much that it's wrong for them to play different stuff as much as I wanted to see Elves and there were none.

I got this. ...as soon as I get some legacy events within my driving range (richmond was more than a days drive for me and I have a 9-5 to worry about). I know I'm not as famous as those dudes but that's more about saturation than any other factor.

Ima rock elves until legacy isn't a thing or they print a 1 mana colorless pyroclasm (or something equally dirty).

[lost_ronin_soul]

Ima rock elves until legacy isn't a thing or they print a 1 mana colorless pyroclasm (or something equally dirty).

They did, and its an instant called terminus.

[Shagstaman]

They did, and its an instant called terminus.

orly..? I didn't know terminus killed my guys and could be easily cast from the hand without any setup... neat!

good thing only two decks play that card! ;)

[IMarques]

orly..? I didn't know terminus killed my guys and could be easily cast from the hand without any setup... neat!

good thing only two decks play that card! ;)

Honestly, I'm not sure that not killing our guys really helps us here. About the only plus is possible dryad beats via fetchlands. But even then, good miracles players know to StP the dryads quickly.

Also, while it's only played in a few decks, Miracles is indisputably one of the top two or three decks. It doesn't show well in the data, because Americans are allergic to miracles.

[Julian23]

If Terminus actually killed the creatures, I'd be happy to move in with the playset of Vengevines.

[Tammit67]

Unmorphing still requires a green mana which is not available unless i have one of the 2-3 forests in my starting hand. I guess i will have to turn to monogreen version, damn those moon+chalice decks :(

It was a tongue in cheek reply, mostly because the problem you are describing is actually not a problem. We have a good game plan against these decks- If you are on the play OR they don't have turn 1 moon OR you have one of 2 forests in your hand. Their lock pieces get beaten by reclamation sage and decay while we have a much more consistent deck.

Don't switch to a shitty version of elves to beat Dragon Stompy.

EDIT: Oh man, I would kill for vengevines in the 75 as an answer to miracles

[Shagstaman]

Honestly, I'm not sure that not killing our guys really helps us here. About the only plus is possible dryad beats via fetchlands. But even then, good miracles players know to StP the dryads quickly.

Also, while it's only played in a few decks, Miracles is indisputably one of the top two or three decks. It doesn't show well in the data, because Americans are allergic to miracles.

Ok I know I'm going to regret making this reply BUT...

A. I played vs miracles 3 times in the last large event I was at...I think miracles is well represented but the difference is partly that europeans are more willing to invest time/money into "real" decks than we are, meaning that budget/combo decks are more prevalent--and those are worse matchups for miracles thus impacting results. Tell me how miracles beats mono-b pox or eldrazi stompy? =/ awkward!

B. After a terminus I can still gsz for any creature that got hit...and one shuffle from anything resets my library to full capacity. Pyroclasm kills em dead, forever...for 2 mana and no library manipulation required.

C. We all know miracles is a bad matchup for elves, for obvious reasons...but the good elves players find ways to consistently go 50/50 vs it despite the uphill struggle and strong possibility of draws-- I'd rather sit across from top and terminus all day than to play goldfish combo decks or even worse...mono b pox. =/

[chewemy]

Quick question, What do you bring vs affinity ?

Null rod, pithing needle and decay ?

Thanks

[Julian23]

My friend Lukas made Top4 at the MKM Event in Rome :-)

List is pretty standard: Pendelhaven, no Progenitus, 6 Discard, 1 Surgical, 1 Library, 3 Decay, 1 Choke, Needles + Null Rod(s?).

[IMarques]

Quick question, What do you bring vs affinity ?

Null rod, pithing needle and decay ?

Thanks

Haven't played against Affinity in legacy, but it seems to me like they're going to be slower than you (especially on the play) unless they're packing some serious hate (lodestone golem type stuff). You should be careful about overboarding, because it will seriously slow you down. In general, killing people faster is the solution to most problems this deck has. And I can't imagine the match is so bad that you'd want to prepare for it over say Shiva (aka Miracles) or Combo.

That being said, Null Rod is probably the best card you have, since it shuts off pretty much everything they can do. At most I would board in 1-2 Null Rods and 3 Decays. Likely best to pull out elements of the Glimpse package, as that's probably too slow to win.

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

As smokin' as our deck is . . . we appear to be not to be in our heyday at the moment. That's ok, things in flux keeps the game interesting. I'm wondering what we all think our toughest match-ups are these days.

For me, I've found the following decks to be giving me the hardest time:

Miracles
R/G Lands--have I mentioned that I hate Lands
Sneak and Show
Imperial Painter
RUG/Temur Delver

What are you finding to be especially vexing across the table?

[chewemy]

Came back from an other OPEN CDF, even if i already have my slot, I need more experience.

So for my third legacy tournament, i went with elves again :)

R1 : 2/0 painter
R2 : 2/0 Stoneblade miracle the list which won the last SCG Premier IQ Syracuse.
R3 : 1/2 12 Post
R4 : 2/0 patriot
--->Top 4
Semi : 2/0 12 Post
Final : 2/0 UWR delver

Win

[IMarques]

As smokin' as our deck is . . . we appear to be not to be in our heyday at the moment. That's ok, things in flux keeps the game interesting. I'm wondering what we all think our toughest match-ups are these days.

For me, I've found the following decks to be giving me the hardest time:

Miracles
R/G Lands--have I mentioned that I hate Lands
Sneak and Show
Imperial Painter
RUG/Temur Delver

What are you finding to be especially vexing across the table?

Depends on your local meta-game, maybe. I play a weekly 4 round, 22 person tournament. People are not insanely competitive, but most have top tier decks. I've gone 3-0-1 and 4-0 in the last two I played in (about a month apart). Mostly been preying on Delver, Stoneblade, and Death and Taxes. To be fair, though, I did dodge Miracles both times.

As for RUG, it's rough, but not unwinnable. Maybe have a luck at Julian's website and watch some video. He's likely the best (or one of the best) Elves pilots and you can learn a lot about sideboarding from watching him. That's what I tend to do with tough matches.

[Shagstaman]

imo the decks I wanna see least in order are:

mono black (ritual into liliana or turn 2 night of souls betrayal is basically gg)
reanimator (seems unwinnable unless you are on the play and get DRS down games 1 and 3)
omni-tell (better than sneak and show because they win the turn they cast SnT/Dream halls)
miracles (derp, whole thread talks about this matchup)
lands with glacial chasm and p.fire (if it's one but not the other, it's a much better matchup)
other combo decks that are a turn faster than us (manaless dredge, storm, tin fins)
tarmogoyf/delver decks overloaded with removal (if they skimp on spot removal, mu gets much easier)

the rest of the format is 50/50 or favored for us, IMO.

I may be forgetting something, but yea those are all matchups I'd prefer not to see. The ones in bold feel like auto-losses, esp. if they win the dye roll.

[Brentane]

imo the decks I wanna see least in order are:

mono black (ritual into liliana or turn 2 night of souls betrayal is basically gg)
reanimator (seems unwinnable unless you are on the play and get DRS down games 1 and 3)
omni-tell (better than sneak and show because they win the turn they cast SnT/Dream halls)
miracles (derp, whole thread talks about this matchup)
lands with glacial chasm and p.fire (if it's one but not the other, it's a much better matchup)
other combo decks that are a turn faster than us (manaless dredge, storm, tin fins)
tarmogoyf/delver decks overloaded with removal (if they skimp on spot removal, mu gets much easier)

the rest of the format is 50/50 or favored for us, IMO.

I may be forgetting something, but yea those are all matchups I'd prefer not to see. The ones in bold feel like auto-losses, esp. if they win the dye roll.

You combat all those matchups with preferably a Ruric Thar. He helps beat all those matchups. Heck, we are known to go off turn 2. A turn 2 Ruric Thar is unbeatable against all those matchups (except Lands, which you use progenitus for). This is why I am trying to find space in my deck to maindeck him.

[Echelon]

You combat all those matchups with preferably a Ruric Thar. He helps beat all those matchups. Heck, we are known to go off turn 2. A turn 2 Ruric Thar is unbeatable against all those matchups (except Lands, which you use progenitus for). This is why I am trying to find space in my deck to maindeck him.

Ruric Thar vs. Manaless Dredge? Lol.

[Brentane]

Ruric Thar vs. Manaless Dredge? Lol.

We do have Deathrite Shaman maindecked still. We also have Ooze in the side.