[Primer] R/G Lands

[HdH_Cthulhu]

So I played in a mini tournament and during the super fun games some weird question occurred.

Round 1 vs TES: 2-0
Game 1 he opened with gemstonemine into ponder. I played taiga, exploration, wasteland. Next turn wastelock then early combo!
Game 2 he couldn't play through 2 spheres and again early token!
TES has a horrible manabase!

Round 2 Belcher 2-0
Game 1 he mulled to 5 played landgrant and revealed only fast-mana, I go for an early token and connect.
Game 2 I sided out the mazes and the pfires. He played a turn 1 belcher but was 1 mana short to activate. I played taiga. Next turn he draw tinderwall and activated belcher. I respond with crop rotation on chasm. Eventually I got a chasmlock.

So I had multiple stages out (one on chasm). What exactly happens if I stage the stage(that is chasm)?

Ok the game goes on for a while and I played some spheres and stuff but I couldn't find a Ddephts. Eventually I found it but than I realised, if I want to attack with my token, I had to get rid of my chasm and he can belcher me. I had about 30 cards in my library milled my lone pithing needle and sided out all Pfires :(

Is it considered stalling if I know I cant win this game and continue to play to survive as long as possible?

Since I didn't care I just go for it and waste my chasm and attacked. He didn't belcher me. After the match I asked him why, he said he is new to legacy and didn't know what's going on the whole time...

Round 3 vs infect: 1-2
Game 1: Turn 1 token gg.
Game 2 and 3: I had all the answers but a very well timed FoW from my opponent always pushed through the last infecter!

[Dice_Box]

A Stage that has copied a land becomes that land, if you want to Stage targeting a Stage it will become whatever that Stage is. (Say that nine times fast.)

In short, you can copy a Stage that has copied a Chasm because as far as the game state is concerned, that Stage IS a Chasm with Stages ability attached.

On the stalling question. No, that's fine. If you keep updating the game state and you do it at a reasonable clip, your fine.

[Chatto]

Question; what is the general consensus about Tranquil Thicket vs. Horizon Canopy? I don't see many lists packing Canopy, but it could come in handy.

[Rivfader]

Question; what is the general consensus about Tranquil Thicket vs. Horizon Canopy? I don't see many lists packing Canopy, but it could come in handy.

I played Horizon Canopy for a while because it could draw a card, and be fetched by crop rotation. But I've never rotated for it, and never used it in some loam shenanigan, so it came down on being a land just costing life. I've cut it for the fourth fetchland, still running 2 tranquil thickets.

[Dice_Box]

I like it and run a 1/1 split. I am a fan of the way it interacts with Manabond and while it might hurt on those times where you have to use it for mana, I put a premium on initial mana sources and thus likely rate it higher than most would.

[Chatto]

I played Horizon Canopy for a while because it could draw a card, and be fetched by crop rotation. But I've never rotated for it, and never used it in some loam shenanigan, so it came down on being a land just costing life. I've cut it for the fourth fetchland, still running 2 tranquil thickets.

But that life gives you access to a colored mana, which I think is huge. I'm very pleased to draw one Thicket, but the second one sometimes feels 'useless'. Even if I would play it as a manasource, it just feels too slow

I like it and run a 1/1 split. I am a fan of the way it interacts with Manabond and while it might hurt on those times where you have to use it for mana, I put a premium on initial mana sources and thus likely rate it higher than most would.

My thought exactly, I will try this 1/1 split.

[Dice_Box]

If you side out Manabond, it's also worth thinking about siding out the Canopy too. Especially if you are siding in utility lands.

[door]

Recently I've been testing lands against a good player with miracles and the result worried me. It was around 25-75 preboard and the same! after board. I sided 9 cards: 4 Krosan Grip; 1 Choke; 1 Titan; 1 Assault; 1 Chalice; 1 Dark Depths. Miracles - classic build, sided in 1 EE; 1 Desinchant; 2 RIP. Although he knew my deck and knew what he should not do, still it shakes me a little bit. Perhaps it is the first time I played against a decent miracles player, because I did not have such big problems previously. What is your experience in general pre and after board?
I am going to test Worm Harvest main or SB and more chokes in SB. Worms are difficult to counter with balance because it requires finding 1 of 4 FoWs on top. Also you can dredge aggressivly in Game1 until you dredge into Harvest and after that just draw cards and recast it every turn until your opponent runs out of Terminus (or kills you earlier with Angels). Or Gamble into Harvest as soon as you recognize Miracles on that side of the table. Although Worms might be good only in game 1 because of RIP. Thoughts?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I can vouch for worm harvest at least coming from control lands. Smokestack and worm harvest are both really annoying for them to deal with and I definitely lean on them in that matchup.

Are you running ghost quarter? I still aggressively go after their white sources and it always seems to be a good way to go. I've seen it cut from a lot of RG lists though.

How did you side cards out?

[door]

I can vouch for worm harvest at least coming from control lands. Smokestack and worm harvest are both really annoying for them to deal with and I definitely lean on them in that matchup.

Are you running ghost quarter? I still aggressively go after their white sources and it always seems to be a good way to go. I've seen it cut from a lot of RG lists though.

How did you side cards out?

I believe the matchup is easier for RUG lands also because of EE+Academy Ruins. Unfortunately in RG lands we can't run silver bullet artifacts like EE and Smokestack without splashing in blue. I do run Ghost Quarter, yes. Always did =) But he was not fetching for a single white source until establishing Top+CB and the 2cmc on top, unless he needed to stp Marite Lage. Very tight and cautious play.

My side outs: Karakas, 1 Punishing Fire, Bojuka Bog, 2 Manabond, 2 Maze of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Glacial Chasm.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Yeah it sounds like he knew exactly how to play it out and I think you boarded out great. Definitely not the most encouraging results. The counter-top lock on 2 was something I could never figure out with RG and it sounds like he was correctly prioritizing it. Having to draw a grip and hope he isn't floating a wear // tear feels like it's just playing into their game.

[Dice_Box]

I think if I was going to be playing Lands in a Meta with Miracles I would pick RUG a my deck choice. If I was set on staying RG I would be looking at some number of Choke and Crucible.

[Rivfader]

Recently I've been testing lands against a good player with miracles and the result worried me.

I also think it's not an easy matchup. I reserve 4 combo-sideboardslots for cards that help in the Miracles matchup as well, which is a mix of either pithing needle, choke or chalice of the void. Last time it was 4x chalice, this time 2x chalice, 1 choke, 1 slaughtergames, next time probably 2 chalice and 2x choke. Chalice does good work, denying cantrips and top on one end, and dodging swords on the other.

Played a 52-person tournament today, went 12th with 4-2 (Infect 1-2, Elves 2-1, Reanimator 2-0, Omnitell 1-2, Belcher 2-0, Pox 2-0).
I once had a perfect combohand in manabond, mox diamond, Stage, Depths and three lands (don't think I ever had that before). Looked like an easy win versus omnitell on the play, but alas, Force of Will decided differently ...

[Nikolai004]

Yeah it sounds like he knew exactly how to play it out and I think you boarded out great. Definitely not the most encouraging results. The counter-top lock on 2 was something I could never figure out with RG and it sounds like he was correctly prioritizing it. Having to draw a grip and hope he isn't floating a wear // tear feels like it's just playing into their game.

Wear and tear doesn't counter a k grip. When used for counterbalance it's either a 1 or 2. The only time it's a 3 drop is if fused and on the stack.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Yeah wasn't thinking there. Just a commonly floated spell for everything else.

[door]

I think if I was going to be playing Lands in a Meta with Miracles I would pick RUG a my deck choice. If I was set on staying RG I would be looking at some number of Choke and Crucible.

After some time of piloting RG Lands RUG seems to be so much slower, that I don't feel returning to it apart of the metagame. Crucible is another card I was looking at. Would you play it in main or sideboard? Would you adjust your game plan somehow with the addition of Crucible?

[Dice_Box]

Crucible would go in the side me thinks. I would play it with one of the two Ruins so I could grab it and likely only run the one. This has been in the back of my mind for a while now since locally I have seen an uptick in the amount of Surgical's played.

I think the strongest option though is Choke, Needle and Grip. Load up on the tried and true before you play with the new.

[door]

Dice_Box, pmed you with a small primer update.

[Chatto]

Guys, I am thinking about taking this deck to GP Lille, but the recent succes of Omnitell makes me wonder if this is going to be a good choice.

Sooo... My question is do we have a chance against Omnitell? If so, how do we board?

[Dice_Box]

Dice_Box, pmed you with a small primer update.

Only just saw this post, the update is done, working on the Artifact section now.

Guys, I am thinking about taking this deck to GP Lille, but the recent succes of Omnitell makes me wonder if this is going to be a good choice.

Sooo... My question is do we have a chance against Omnitell? If so, how do we board?

This is the Match I hate the most, worst part, it's played locally by a pair of fairly competent players... Sigh.

Running my non Artifact list, I would say the match is winnable, not great though but winnable thanks to two Choke I run in the side.

Out:
Ghost Quarter
Tabernacle
Wasteland (I only remove 2, only if you do not have choke)
Maze of Ith
Punishing Fire

In:
All your Grips.
Chalice
Some Spheres
Choke if you have it
Bog (They will Delve a lot)

Plan:
If you have a Port in hand when you start, Gamble for Choke NOT Loam. (Play the Port before you do this of course)
Mull anything that is not either Winning or laying down heavy Disruption in the first two turns. (Three if you must hold a hand)
Port is the most important card in your main bar none.
If they are using Ant's as a kill, keep Chasm in the main.
Wasteland should stay in the main if you are running Choke as a way to force Fetch cracks. Also stops SOL lands out of the board. If you are not running Choke, take 2 out.
Waste your own Bog often, if they have five cards in the Grave, wipe it clean.
Karakas will not win you many games here, but every so often it will, keep it in. (If it saves you one in 20 games, take that 5% and run with it)


Not sure if I missed anything, that's what comes straight to mind. How common a match is Omni in the EU anyway?