Guys, just try Whirlpool Rider - you will become less frustrated with additional Vials, lands, Dazes and other garbage.
Also, I would like to point out, that suggestions like removing some Adepts or vials turn the deck into a bad Bant. Want to maximize Nemesis profit? Add dorks and SFM, also pair him with Traft and make big beats starting from the third turn.
Merfolks were always about tempo, and now it's more like midrange. But in midrange, for example, Catchers are bad as we give plenty of time to an opponent to play around it effectively. By turn four real merfolks should be in a winning position, not making first attack with Nemesis.
Hi.
What you guys target with dismember? I'm using 1 Jitte and have 1 sided disember. Sometimes I just feel I have not enough removal.
Goyfs? Knights? DRS? I'm forcing lot of BGx and tier 2 decks. Any advices?
There's been some discussion of Dismember and Gut Shot at MTGSalvation, so I'd recommend looking there if you aren't already.
Clique can rip threats before they land, which can be effective, and can also help with Miracle cards and other problems. Maindeck Chalices also help against some of those matchups (e.g. BUG with high numbers of 1-drops). TNN can block opposing fatties like Goyf and Knight.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Goyfs, Knights and DRS are easily dealt with Relic of Progenitus.
You even draw a card instead of losing 4 life.
Hey guys I top 8 at 40 player tournament with Merfolk!
Here is the list :
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Merrow Reejerey
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Force of Will
3 Standstill
12 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault
4 AEther Vial
2 Spell Pierce
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Cursed Totem
SB: 2 Sower of Temptation
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Vapor Snag
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 2 Spell Snare
SB: 1 Divert
SB: 1 Dismember
This was my first real tournament with the Folk. At the start of tournament I set my Goal to go 3/3 or better!
First game VS. BURG
I am not realy sure how I kicked him out but it was relay fast 2-0 for me.
I boarded 1xDismember 1xDivert 2xSpell Snare 1x Vapor and Kira.
Next match vs BUG.
Ohh shit I hate bug and the player seems to know what he is doing in both matches I just got rekt....
I really hate the bug metchup I boarded ealy sure how I kicked him out but it was really fast 2-0 for me.
I boarded 1xDismember 1xDivert 2xSpell Snare 1x Vapor and Kira.
Match 3 Vs Grixis
He is on the play.
In the first match I let him resolve YP and and in the next round he striped me 4 card out of my Hand with Cabal Therapy (In one fucking round !) luckily I had one Loard on the board. After this I copied his TNN with an Image and the top deck God gave me a second loard from the top. After this I just beat him down with the FOLK !
I am not really sure how the second round was but it felt like the match vs Burg I just over run him with a bunch of loards.
Match 4 vs Jeskai..
Ok this game was just weird..
First game he wins the dices roll.
First hand 2 man lands an no other land or vial.. Ok mull.
He mulled with me.
Second hand 1 man land and no vial again.. Ok mull.
Look over to him he looks unpleasant and mulls to.
Third hand just saw Vial+man land I bust out KEEP ! After looking i saw a lord, Tnn and a SP
Mulled two extra time until he was on 3.
This game was really fast diced for me.
Second Game I kept my 7 and he mulled on 5.
Killed him really fast again with a bunch of lords.
Match 5 vs Sneak Show !
I know what he was playing. He played next to me in round 3 and I admired his sweet guru lands.
My and was not really Creature heavy hand 2 factory's, Image Standstill,Island ,Silvergill Adept and I think a SP.
Keep it and he his 7 to.
Btw he won the dice roll (I didn't won a single roll now)
I had my strict game plan try to stick my land close it with Standstill an beat him super fast down!
This plan was relay good until he went on 4 live playing his Show ,cracking my Standstill I found no other counters in the still. I try to SP his S&T he FOW it . Ok I look at my hand thinking what I can do. I wasn't sure what he is playing Sneak show or Omni.. In the end I sicked with the plan put the Adept in try to find a counter for his next spell when he puts in Omni. SNT reosolve he resolves a Grissel and i my Adept (drew a Island with him). He passes the turn.
I think what I can with an Grissle. My factory's can't run him donw... Looking at his live ohhh he is just at 3Hp. Play a lord in giving my guy island walk and just kill him. This was easier than I thought.
I board in Needle, Sower of Temptation, Echoing and Divert.
Draw my 7 and see a God hand 2 Forces a vial manland and some folks..
He starts with Ancient tomb + Petal = Vedalken Shackles. I fow.
I play vial + man land giving him the turn.
He plays a Ponder and after this a Needle... STOP FOW time.. at this point he was really pissed how its possible that i have such a good and so on.
After this vialed in a curse catcher and loard and killed him prety fast in the next 3 rounds.
I am standing 4-1 that's pretty good for the first time folks checking my possible enemy's: My friend Max with BUG ( I really hope I wont get paired vs him. He rely knows how to play this deck). A guy with ANT (he gave my firend with BUG the first lost and he know what he is doing to) but i am ok with the MU and a guy with Miracles ( i am fine with the MU too)... Checking the parings fuck it I have to play VS Max with BUG...
I win the dice roll for the first time !!
I keep my 7 but it was not a super good and but i dont want to mull.
I don't know how but he destroys me fast.
Ok Game 2.
Keeping a Hand with Vial man land a bunch of folks.
Playing vial go
He plays a land into somthing( I think it was Delver) and says go.
Drawing another vial play it and passing the turn.
After the second vial draw I know the game sould be won.
I just flood him with folks and kill him.
I made my first mistake in this game.
He plays Disfigure on my Image I react with SP.. He sits there with a big evil grin on his face saying OK i put the sp in the grave he his Disfigure.. I say go.. he is looking at me and asking: "you dont want to put he Image in the grave to?" In this moment i realize how stupid I was!
In the third game he just rekt me...
Going out with 4-2 placing in the top 8.
I think I really have to improve the SB. Mostly vs BUG losing both games vs it
I think about:
- Tormod's Crypt
- Cursed Totem
- 2 spell Snare
- Vapor Snag
+ Relic of Progenitus
+ Back to Basic
+ 2 Submerge
+Dismember
thanks for the report, congrats on the top 8
I personally find BUG to be a very good matchup overall (haven't lost a match in a sanctioned event against it for over a year). I have always at least 3 dismember in the 75, and that is very good here. Save for the turn 1 delver (which I like to FOW when I have it), it's really hard for them to pressure you. Their removal suite is somewhat conditional, and their answers don't always line up well with your threats. In post-board games, I recommend playing around disfigure with Image by copying either TNN or adept if you can afford it. If you think they have decay, copying a manland could also be good (and remember that factories protect mutavault from disfigure). Try to keep your manlands around until they play liliana: they are good at killing her on the turn they play it and can save a TNN from her -2 if needed. In post board games, try to play around Golgari charm when possible.
Do others have the same experience than me?
Also, when you rather have vapor snag over dismember in your board? Beyond Griselbrand and burn, what is it better against?
I was not sure about Sygg, River Cutthroat at first, but now I think that he works well with the opponent's fetches if he comes early in the game.Originally Posted by kubalonek
Vendilion Clique is a cool flyer and protects us from Miracles (the major reason I have several Stifle). But it's pricey.
Augur of Bolas did not work well for me for the reason you mentioned - there are a few targets for him and he was giving me counters a few time, and the rest of the times he was taking away from me three good cards.
I a, still adjusting to Merfolk and part of the problem is that I am playing the deck as it were a control deck rather than aggro one. Sometimes I have a feeling that I could play it without any counter spells and, perhaps, even with better results.
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Carpe Diem
Whirlpool Rider is an interesting idea. What is your experience using him?
Can you please expand on this a bit? It is not clear for me what you were trying to say. Perhaps, because I don't understand what you meant by "dorks" (there is only one blue merfolk with mana ability - Sea Scryer) and "Traft".
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Carpe Diem
The Augur math seems pretty easy to me. My sig demands a sacrifice, yet he's inferior to Silvergill Adept and there isn't enough room for both.
And you're right, most times you'll be the beatdown. If you want to play control with 20+ creatures, take a look at Death and Taxes.
EDIT: Pretty sure I'd sooner run Waterfront Bouncer than Whirlpool Rider. And he's suggesting that you might as well play another deck altogether if you're moving in that direction (of fewer vials etc). That said, not sure I'd agree that Merfolk are about tempo in the current sense of the tempo archetype. Tempo decks land an efficient threat and protect it to victory. We're like Meathooks: swarm-based aggro-control.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Very interesting build. Several questions about your choices.
Merrow Reejerey - does it work well for you? I found him rather CMC-wise expensive and his second ability doesn't help much since ideally we should use Vials to bring more folks. So I took Reejerey completely off my deck.
Standstill - I'm still unsure about this card. Basically, instead of moving forward, it can hamper us. Especially when we don't have any Vials on the table and the opponent plays some slow combo. Have you tried Saprazzan Heir? I understand that she is easily killable and doesn't provide an immediate result, but can serve as an unblocable runner for a while.
Mishra's Factory - very interesting idea. This land looks very powerful and works well together with Mutavault. Perhaps, will try 4 of these in my deck to be more aggressive and improve mana base. I currently run 19 lands with 4 Mutavaults and 2 Caverns of Souls and this is not enough. Cavern of Souls are not very helpful and I was thinking about adding Wasteland, but Factories look like a better option for an aggressive deck.
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Carpe Diem
When I was playing 15 years ago, I usually played mono-blue decks with a few or no creatures. It was easy back then with Nevinyrral's Disk and Rainbow Efreet, or later with Powder Keg and mr. Morphling. So I know Blue color in Magic better than other colors and will stick to it for a while. And if I try something else, most likely it will be Black or Red :).And you're right, most times you'll be the beatdown. If you want to play control with 20+ creatures, take a look at Death and Taxes.
Bouncer looks like a good fit, though my limited experience tells me that this are not creatures that I usually would like to bounce, but things like Ensnaring Bridge or Moat. And creatures like Griselbrand should not be allowed on the table at the first place. That is why I still like Vials, Cursecatchers, and Dazes. My ideal first hand should have all of them and Island.
However, if we want to be more agressive, I found an interesting guy Cosi's Trickster. Trickster is a good alternative to Cursecatcher in more controlling environments where you always have less counterspells and they always have some extra mana. So you can just drop Trickster and let them to grow it with their fetches and other deck manipulations.
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Carpe Diem
Whirlpool Rider is ours Ancestral Recall. Just don't cast unneeded things like second Vial, Catchers when they can't catch anything, dead Dazes and lands beyond the first three. Of course you sometimes draw the same blanks but that's not too often.
I meant don't play Merfolks to power out Nemesis, play Bant with Noble Hierarchs, Stoneforge Mystics and Geists of Saint Traft)))
The Meerow Reejerey are fine but they are the first guys I would cut out whene I have to :)
Some time a 13-14 lord are pretty nice. Yeah and the second ability is not very often useful.
I think Standstill is pretty powerful in this deck. They give you the extra card draw you often need. And so many opponents don't really know how to play vs it. The often waste to much time.
The Factory's are good to but I would only play a playset with the standstill build.
@Dziga Murnau What does your list with Whirlpool Rider look like? The thought of pairing it with the more conditional and polarizing Merfolk cards like Standstill is kind of interesting.
http://deckbox.org/sets/962489
Sorry, just link, posting from the phone. Made for a friend of mine who shares my views on the archetype. Myself has little testing beyond cocatrice, so need someone who can really try that.
Thanks for the list.
After some discussion with the friend decided to put the second black mana source in main and remove Swamp from side. Second thing - +2 Virtue's Ruin in side against DnT and Miracles (just clears path to the victory).
He said, main chalices destroys Brainstorm lovers completely and after counter war for it you are free to flood the board with Merfs.
Tests continue.
I think you've got a lot of really interesting things going on in that list, but I'm not sure that Baleful Strix is much better than just having more True-Name Nemesis. I recognize that they're not really doing exactly the same thing but 9 times out of 10 (basically, except for Delver of Secrets) TNN is going to do everything Strix will do, while also being a Merfolk and also just being extremely difficult to lose with while it's in play. I also don't think you can afford to have a non-Island basic land in Merfolk anywhere when many, many of your best openings include dropping multiple UU creatures over multiple turns, and also think you're going to want many more black sources if you're expecting to cast a sorcery-speed black card in the Death and Taxes matchup. I'd run 4 Underground Sea, 2 Island and 7 fetchlands and trim a Cavern of Souls to make room for fully 20 lands, which I think is the absolute least number of lands you can run when 4 of your lands are actually spells (Wasteland).
Also, if you're looking for a card to dismantle Death and Taxes in particular, Dread of Night is much, much better than Virtue's Ruin. The reason is because a 3-mana sorcery is very difficult to cast on-time against Thalia, Wasteland and Rishadan Port, and because it gets all of the cards you really care about. Their creatures are all terrible against an army of 3/3s and 4/4s when they can't have Mother of Runes, and you also get to take out all of the Thalias and Flickerwisps. The Miracles matchup is like 90/10 in Merfolk's favor (an exaggeration, but not much of one), so I don't think that's a reason to go with Virtue's Ruin over something more targeted against Miracles.
Thank you for the critics, it is very much appreciated, as I build and test decks in the abscence of any dialogue with other players.
I was really worried about basic Swamp in main, but it works exactly like Mutavault you do not animate and attack with, so it's just a 5th "colorless" land in the build. 4 Seas is really interesting, how do you feel yourself opposing wastelands?
I think, I will remove beloved Strixes from main as 2-mana slot is too clogged. Snuff Outs/Dismembers instead (though they are open to Pierces). It's just too much card advantage for the format where card quality is so much important than card quality)
Dread of Night is considered and currently in test.
I can see that with the Swamp, and it was my first thought when I realized that you didn't have any colorless lands in the deck aside from Wasteland. The thing that I've noticed about fighting against opposing Wastelands is that the card is so powerful that it can color-screw you even if you're fetching basics. Meaning that fetching basics can still lead to a sub-optimal set of lands that can heavily prevent you from casting your cards on time. I prefer blue duals when splashing with Merfolk simply because it gives you perfect mana when they don't have Wasteland, and when they do, it's really not that bad given that we have Aether Vial, etc. In my build with Mutavaults, Wastelands almost never target the dual lands, which is different from yours, but also there are a lot of times when I actively WANT them to use their Wastelands against me since I have Daze and Cursecatcher and Spell Pierce. Them choosing to Wasteland me effectively turns my non-basics into up to 4 more Wastelands, greatly amplifying the power of my soft-counters. It's also pretty bad for them to use Wasteland against us after we've resolved an Aether Vial. I don't hate the basic Swamp in a list without many colorless lands, though I think I'd try other things myself.
I would do my best to include a 20th land, though, as unexciting as that is. In fact in builds with fetchlands and a splash, I usually try to have 21 lands, as it is slightly more likely that Wasteland will be effective against us, and as the thinning from the fetchlands will help reduce the odds of flood. I've found that 21 lands with 7 fetchlands and 6 fetchable lands lets me draw, on average, the perfect number of lands throughout a game, but that's obviously a feel thing and something that's difficult to prove. Having Mutavault in the deck also works as a mana-sink to turn extra lands drawn into damage.
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