[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[bruizar]

That's an unsuitable comparison because you're not cutting spells to fit Factories. The competition is between Factory and other value lands.

I'm trying out 3x Factory in my MUD-Post build instead of Wasteland just to see how it does. So far it's killed multiple Jace TMS, prevented Liliana from killing a key creature, chump blocked to buy a turn to win, been sacrificed to Forgemaster, and given me immediate pressure after a Terminus. I wouldn't say it has been overwhelmingly strong for me yet, but it has made a solid contribution.

I did also lose one Factory to a Snapcaster late in a game, exactly as you described. Make sure that you're in a position where you can afford to lose a land. Otherwise, don't attack.

Factory and Wasteland are stronger in my friend's list thanks to Crucible.

We all know this but I felt the need to point out that the Snapcaster scenario is a non-issue if you have 2 factories in play.

[Bane of the Living]

Angel + Greaves is dangerous. As i said the format is more complex. Eventually (from experience) it gets down to finding a way to remove the Angel in order to win. Most decks have an out in some way. While Platinum Emporion can't prevent you from losing in any situation it does put most situations on pauze and losing emperion doesnt lose you the game.

Anyway, just for reference the latest list of glascannon Welder Mud i was working on (61 card maindeck):

Turbo Welder:

1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Steel Hellkite/(Razormane) Masticore/Spine of Ish Sah
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Goblin Welder
3 Lightning Greaves
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 (3) Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
3 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Opal
2 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Sundering Titan
SB: 1 Platinum Emperion
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge/Defense Grid
SB: 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon/Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 2 Karn Liberated

This deck tries to punch thru G1 via combo/aggro totally ignoring the opponent and overload. G2 and G3 i put more focus on specific hate / or anti tech, as you will, while keeping the best wincon suited for that matchup in the deck.

Edit: playing 4 Mox Opal is kinda dangerous, keeping you of the 3rd artifact will disrupt development of your boardstate. Also not running Cavern of Souls while having both Welder as Chalice MD is not the best thing to do. Chalice will most of the times be played on 1.

I didn't think of playing Cavern to get Welder in through Chalice that's really cool! When looking at other lists I thought it was included just to get past the blue counter decks. On that note what is the second best creature type to name?

[Silverflame]

I didn't think of playing Cavern to get Welder in through Chalice that's really cool! When looking at other lists I thought it was included just to get past the blue counter decks. On that note what is the second best creature type to name?

It depends on your hand and the match you're on. Most of the time I'd go for construct (forgemaster, metalworker ), golem (lodestone golem, sundering titan, platinum emperion) or wurm/dragon if I really need wurmcoil/hellkite to stick. I play with post-build, so I can just look at my hand and see the types I have, but on red mud, goblin or construct is correct 90% of the time as you're trying to combo asap.

[Bane of the Living]

I got to play in a small tournament in my town at Geek Stuff Games Spencer MA last night.

I went 2-2 with my posted list.

G/W Enchantress:
Game one he plays mana ramp into Rest in Peace, I play Greaves into Metalworker into double Lodestone Golem. He plays Serra's Sanctum, Helm of Obedience, and decks me.
Game two I play turn one Citadel, turn two Tomb, Monolith, Opal, Greaves, Forgemaster, Blightsteel swing.

Ahh yes, welcome back to legacy.

Game three we go to about turn 5 somehow! I get Platinum Angel with Greaves on it and before she kills him he draws 40 cards off Enchantress effects and goes Oblivion Ring into Journey to Nowhere into Helm kill. I remember that he kept just enough toughness on table two turns to live through a comboed out Blightsteel. I made a mistake in not using it to kill over 2 turns. Ah well.

I also lost to Goblins because I couldn't get a Wurmcoil on board. Even though I had a turn 2 Angel. Gempalm eventually killed it.

I did manage to beat Nic Fit and a Sultai Faeries list. Deathrite Shaman can be a pain in the ass to play around but it can be done.

Masticore over performed for me acting as a quick clock, and almost being a walking Jitte. I missed having a maindeck Sundering Titan, the one of Key was nice because it gave me a card to take out and I never could hit multiples to kill draws. Opal was bomb over Petal because I got to weld it out of forge it into big robots many times. I never got to cast Ugin, granted I am a non-post build. Finally I wish I had Bloodmoon in the side.

Has anyone thought to play Batterskull over Wurmcoil?

And is there any mass Enchantment removal in red or mono brown? Ratchet Bomb is there but it seems slow.

[potatodavid]

And is there any mass Enchantment removal in red or mono brown? Ratchet Bomb is there but it seems slow.

Good Joke!

[BTY]

Has anyone thought to play Batterskull over Wurmcoil?

If you are playing goblin welder Wurmcoil is probably just always better because of the ability to constantly flip it in and out of play.

[contra]

Hi! I'm new to this forum, but I'd like to get some feedback on my list:

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
3 cavern of souls
4 grim monolith
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
4 metalworker
4 kudoltha forgemaster
4 ugin, the spirit dragon
4 lodestone golem
4 wurmcoil engine
3 staff of domination
1 spine of ish sah
1 steel hellkite

SB
2 ensnaring bridge
3 ratchet bomb
3 tormod's crypt
2 silent arbiter
3 pithing needle
1 phyrexian revoker
1 coercive portal

I feel that MUD wants to run 4-ofs to help with it's main weakness of being inconsistent. Staff of domination is really strong as a utility even if you're not going infinite. I'm not a huge fan of tons of forgemaster targets, and in fact I've thought about cutting him entirely for 4 batterskulls. Although spine of ish sah has been an invaluable target in several matches. Lmk what y'all think!

[BTY]

Hi! I'm new to this forum, but I'd like to get some feedback on my list:

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
3 cavern of souls
4 grim monolith
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
4 metalworker
4 kudoltha forgemaster
4 ugin, the spirit dragon
4 lodestone golem
4 wurmcoil engine
3 staff of domination
1 spine of ish sah
1 steel hellkite

SB
2 ensnaring bridge
3 ratchet bomb
3 tormod's crypt
2 silent arbiter
3 pithing needle
1 phyrexian revoker
1 coercive portal

I feel that MUD wants to run 4-ofs to help with it's main weakness of being inconsistent. Staff of domination is really strong as a utility even if you're not going infinite. I'm not a huge fan of tons of forgemaster targets, and in fact I've thought about cutting him entirely for 4 batterskulls. Although spine of ish sah has been an invaluable target in several matches. Lmk what y'all think!

Well given the way you built the deck Forgemaster looks pretty weak since the best card it would get is wurmcoil engine. It can also get staff if you have enough artifacts for the combo but since you cut the cards like Blightsteel and Sundering Titan then Batterskull or some other 4 or 5 cmc beater is probably just better. If you want to change the threat base to actually make forgemaster better I would suggest cutting 1 Staff of Domination, maybe 2, and 1 wurmcoil engine. Personally I like 3 Sundering Titan main with no Blightsteel. I have also been a fan of 1 Platinum Angel main. If you don't want to change much to improve forgemaster than cutting it is fine.

[contra]

I've been using hellkite and spine as forgemaster targets. Like I said I don't think having a ton 1-ofs is where this deck wants to be since it struggles with consistency. I'd also argue that if you've already resolved 3 artifacts and have an active forgemaster, you should already be winning. Additionally, there isn't a target which wins on the spot unless you have a pair of greaves. I do however think I could make space for a sundering titan though. The reason I wouldn't add multiples is because he increases the mana curve too much. Where's the love for staff od?

[BTY]

I've been using hellkite and spine as forgemaster targets. Like I said I don't think having a ton 1-ofs is where this deck wants to be since it struggles with consistency. I'd also argue that if you've already resolved 3 artifacts and have an active forgemaster, you should already be winning. Additionally, there isn't a target which wins on the spot unless you have a pair of greaves. I do however think I could make space for a sundering titan though. The reason I wouldn't add multiples is because he increases the mana curve too much. Where's the love for staff od?

Well resolving 3 artifacts isn't necessarily a win if it is things like Metalworker (sometimes), grim monolith, even chalice and trinisphere somtimes are pretty low impact.

I'm not a huge fan of Staff of Domination since I would rather just be casting my spells. The combo is fairly easy to disrupt and if you don't draw it early you are going to play out all your artifacts, which when you draw the staff makes it a pretty bad draw. It is fairly versatile but it costs a lot of mana, which is pretty miserable when I'd rather just be casting my spells. I have 1 for a forgemaster target just because sometimes you just get to win, but it is very expensive versatility.

I also think that you can build a consistent deck with forgemaster without a lot of one of's. Right now my forgemaster targets are 3 wurmcoil engine, 3 sundering titan, 1 staff of domination, 1 Platinum Angel. I also run 2 Staff of Nin (not a good tutor target but I feel like it's worth mentioning). I do think that Blightsteel is overrated for multiple reasons. Firstly, drawing it is terrible, it is also tough to cast. Sundering Titan usually just wins the game anyway and swords to plowshares is an effective 4 for 1 if you forge it out, where as Titan has a pseudo protection from removal.

[Bane of the Living]

Well resolving 3 artifacts isn't necessarily a win if it is things like Metalworker (sometimes), grim monolith, even chalice and trinisphere somtimes are pretty low impact.

I'm not a huge fan of Staff of Domination since I would rather just be casting my spells. The combo is fairly easy to disrupt and if you don't draw it early you are going to play out all your artifacts, which when you draw the staff makes it a pretty bad draw. It is fairly versatile but it costs a lot of mana, which is pretty miserable when I'd rather just be casting my spells. I have 1 for a forgemaster target just because sometimes you just get to win, but it is very expensive versatility.

I also think that you can build a consistent deck with forgemaster without a lot of one of's. Right now my forgemaster targets are 3 wurmcoil engine, 3 sundering titan, 1 staff of domination, 1 Platinum Angel. I also run 2 Staff of Nin (not a good tutor target but I feel like it's worth mentioning). I do think that Blightsteel is overrated for multiple reasons. Firstly, drawing it is terrible, it is also tough to cast. Sundering Titan usually just wins the game anyway and swords to plowshares is an effective 4 for 1 if you forge it out, where as Titan has a pseudo protection from removal.

I don't know that I would cut Blightsteel without bringing in some serious combo hate for the main. He is one of the few ways to close the game on a storm time frame. I was thinking of putting my Platinum Angel in my sideboard to go up to three Masticore.

If any of you are avid MUD players and have not given this guy the time of day, I implore you to do so. He is an all star, most likely the better pair up with Welder himself over Forgemaster.

Playing more 4 drops bad ass robots has me thinking that we may not need Forgemaster at all. He certainly can even be a liability if playing against blue Stifle decks. Maybe just playing 3 Wurmcoils, 3 Sundering Titans, 3 Masticore, 4 Lodestone would give us all the powerful robots we want.

[contra]

I don't know that I would cut Blightsteel without bringing in some serious combo hate for the main. He is one of the few ways to close the game on a storm time frame. I was thinking of putting my Platinum Angel in my sideboard to go up to three Masticore.

If any of you are avid MUD players and have not given this guy the time of day, I implore you to do so. He is an all star, most likely the better pair up with Welder himself over Forgemaster.

Playing more 4 drops bad ass robots has me thinking that we may not need Forgemaster at all. He certainly can even be a liability if playing against blue Stifle decks. Maybe just playing 3 Wurmcoils, 3 Sundering Titans, 3 Masticore, 4 Lodestone would give us all the powerful robots we want.

The reason I play MUD is because its so strong against my storm heavy meta - chalice, trini, and even the amount of life gain from glimmer and wurm all make it a great matchup. I can't see blightsteel making an appearance vs storm...

I think masticore belongs in a much different shell - one with welder, ensnaring bridge main, possibly bottled cloister and myr battlesphere - but def not the quad laser build I'm proposing.

I've had a ton of success with the full playset of ugin. A resolved ugin is game against the majority of the field, and the biggest advantage is that he can't be swords. He lands, either all is dust or bolt, then game in a few turns the majority of the time.

[BTY]

I don't know that I would cut Blightsteel without bringing in some serious combo hate for the main. He is one of the few ways to close the game on a storm time frame. I was thinking of putting my Platinum Angel in my sideboard to go up to three Masticore.

If any of you are avid MUD players and have not given this guy the time of day, I implore you to do so. He is an all star, most likely the better pair up with Welder himself over Forgemaster.

Playing more 4 drops bad ass robots has me thinking that we may not need Forgemaster at all. He certainly can even be a liability if playing against blue Stifle decks. Maybe just playing 3 Wurmcoils, 3 Sundering Titans, 3 Masticore, 4 Lodestone would give us all the powerful robots we want.

I already run Platinum Angel main and with chalice and trinisphere most combo decks, besides sneak and show and reanimator are already very good. Blightsteel doesn't really help much against those because they are so explosive it is too slow to matter most of the time. When I first started playing the deck (January 2014) Blightsteel Colossus was being boarded out in almost every game. I thought that if I'm boarding it out so much, why have it in the deck to begin with. I also very really went for it with forgemaster because of the risk of swords to plowshares.

[Bane of the Living]

Isn't the Goblin Welder/Forgemaster deck just completely different from the 12 post Ugin builds?

It seems to me that 12 post is far more suitable to non-Wasteland opponents.

I'm expecting a lot of Death and Taxes, so I'd like to know each builds strengths and weaknesses concerning that match if anyone has good input on it.

[Bobmans]

Isn't the Goblin Welder/Forgemaster deck just completely different from the 12 post Ugin builds?

It seems to me that 12 post is far more suitable to non-Wasteland opponents.

I'm expecting a lot of Death and Taxes, so I'd like to know each builds strengths and weaknesses concerning that match if anyone has good input on it.

Chalice on 1 ruins their day, IF they dont play Vial or when you cast it on the play. If you do the Chalice on 3 completely stops their interaction. Basicly they have an answer/out on everything we play. Phyrexian Revoker and Flickerwhisp are the most dangerous cards, also Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares and Rishadan Ports makes it hard. Mostly its a grindfest and games are decided by tight play and who draws better.

[bruizar]

Chalice Will just get flickerwisped. D&T is never easy. D&T is exceptionally strong against decks that put their eggs in one basket, like 12-post. I've seen D&T race progenitus and emrakul on more than one occasion.

[the_MTGeezer]

Hey guys, just wanted to take a quick minute to post my list here:

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Empyrion
1 Blightsteel Colossus

3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Coercive Portal
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls

SB:
1 Trinisphere
4 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
1 Staff of Nin
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trading Post
1 Witchbane Orb
2 Ratchet Bomb

I split first place in a local Legacy tournament this past weekend, my second finals in consecutive Legacy tourneys with it, and the deck has been a lot of fun to play. Words cannot adequately describe just how much I love playing Ugin against much of the metagame right now, he's just a brutal and devastating wrecking ball of a card for people to play against.

[Barook]

How is the MUD match-up vs. Omnitell?

[contra]

How is the MUD match-up vs. Omnitell?

The 12-post version is very strong versus omnitell. Often times you can get a lodestone golem or trinisphere out before they s&t omni or a chalice on 1 to slow them down. Post SB it still seems good, especially if you have thorn of amethyst. I typically take out my ugins and other higher cmc bombs for this matchup. Also chalice on 3 is gg

[ZEROorDIE]

Hello all, recently picked up magic again(around sept of last year after a ~10year hiatus). Been playing this Justin Moss' version of this deck in local legacy tournaments for around 3 months now. I just sincerely love smashing with big dumb robots.

Also to weigh in on the blightsteel debate and touch on omni tell at the same time, I had a pretty sweet win against omni last night. He> show and tell> omni> emrakul. I put in platinum angel. I have 7 permanents, he passses turn. I play forgemaster and thran. Pass back. He attacks, in response I forgemaster blightsteel and sack my 6 remaining permanents to annihilator, take 15 and go to 1, untap and swing with blightsteel for the win.

Blightsteel i s necessary with the speed of combo decks right now. He also landed me a pretty sweet win against high tide.

Looking forward to playing this deck as much as possible