[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

[Lans89]

Omniscience into Emrakul is a possible out here. However, if your opponent holds a Iona in hand, he's certainly playing reanimator, which is an abysmal MU anyways. You'll very likely lose with or without discard.

Nevertheless, some people play OmniTell with a black splash for Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy in the MD.

One of the Ovino top 8 lists has 1 Iona side, and I've already seen people copying it :P

[KobeBryan]

Usually the correct sequence for cantrip is:

With fetchland available:
1-Brainstorm
2-Ponder
3-Preordain

Without fetchland available
1-Preordain
2-Ponder
3-Brainstorm

Of course, its a generic rule that doesnt apply to every case, but i find it to be very effecitve.


Im not a big fan of trickbind, but it is there to side it in vs decks that has ETB effects (like o.ring, ashen rider, etc) so you can Cunning wish - Firemind's Foresight - Brainstorm, Trickbind, Cunning wish so you are not forced to go off at instant speed.

without fetchland, i would not go preordain, ponder brainstorm.

i would actually brainstorm first. then use preordain or ponder. You don't want to be BS locked by any chance for 2 turns.

Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

[janluis1]

without fetchland, i would not go preordain, ponder brainstorm.

i would actually brainstorm first. then use preordain or ponder. You don't want to be BS locked by any chance for 2 turns.

Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

So let s say then is your very first turn of the game. You are on the play. Your hand is 2 islands 2 fows 1 ponder 1 brainstorm and 1 preordain. What do you do!?

[Arksz]

without fetchland, i would not go preordain, ponder brainstorm.

i would actually brainstorm first. then use preordain or ponder. You don't want to be BS locked by any chance for 2 turns.

Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

If you brainstorm after preordain you see 6 cards instead of only 4. Better chance to find a fetch or the business spells you need. I sometimes find the hardest part is getting one of the combo pieces since we only have 4 copies of each. I would usually risk it for the extra two looks.

Also your technically drawing those two cards anyway just without knowing them if you brainstorm / preordain.

[KobeBryan]

If you brainstorm after preordain you see 6 cards instead of only 4. Better chance to find a fetch or the business spells you need. I sometimes find the hardest part is getting one of the combo pieces since we only have 4 copies of each. I would usually risk it for the extra two looks.

But do you really want to cantrip a fetch when you are looking for business. I don't like the risks being BS locked.

As a combo deck without a clock and without board presence, i don't think you can afford to be locked out 2 turns.

[kkkant]

So let s say then is your very first turn of the game. You are on the play. Your hand is 2 islands 2 fows 1 ponder 1 brainstorm and 1 preordain. What do you do!?

The correct order is preordain go, then, if you drew a fetch for next turn, its brainstorm, fetch, then ponder (assuming you didnt drew nuts with bs and wont be needing to clean any garbage from your hand, in that case you play the land and pass the turn).
Edit: That, of course, varies on the matchup also. Lets say you have 2 islands,1 fow, 1 ponder 1 brainstorm 1 preordain and 1 show and tell and you know you are playing vs a deck with discard, its better to just island-go to protect our show and tell with brainstorm without spending a fow.

But do you really want to cantrip a fetch when you are looking for business. I don't like the risks being BS locked.

As a combo deck without a clock and without board presence, i don't think you can afford to be locked out 2 turns.
Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

If you play preordain, then ponder, then brainstorm, and you get bs-locked, either you had terrible luck (by not seeing a single fetchland or the bussiness you needed in 10 cards) or there is something terribly wrong with the pilot.

Anyway, the order was not meant to be played that way, its just a "ranking" from best to worst cantrip in either situation.

The hole idea of playing trickbind its that ,besides the split second, that of course its an upside but not that huge if you think about it, since if there are more than 1 activation of a single ability in the stack like, for example, sneak attack (happened to me that my opponent saw the cunning wish -> trickbind play coming and activated sneak attack 2 times in order to get it to resolve through it), tidespout tyrant or counterbalance, you only get to counter 1 of them, is that you can fetch it with fireminds foresight and not losing the card adavantage.

Let me be clear:

Scenario A, trickbind on the SB
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, Impulse, BS. Cunning for trickbind, then you are left with 1 impulse and 1 brainstorm.

Scenario B, trickbind on the MD (of course game 2)
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, trickbind, BS. Trickbind the ability, then you are left with cunning wish and BS

Im just saying, in one situation you are left with 1 BS and 1 Impulse on your hand, and in the other you are left with 1 Cunning Wish and 1 BS in hand. In which one would you rather be? I think the downside of having it (a dead card) in the md on games 2-3 is not that bad compared to its upside.

[KobeBryan]

The correct order is preordain go, then, if you drew a fetch for next turn, its brainstorm, fetch, then ponder (assuming you didnt drew nuts with bs and wont be needing to clean any garbage from your hand, in that case you play the land and pass the turn).
Edit: That, of course, varies on the matchup also. Lets say you have 2 islands,1 fow, 1 ponder 1 brainstorm 1 preordain and 1 show and tell and you know you are playing vs a deck with discard, its better to just island-go to protect our show and tell with brainstorm without spending a fow.




If you play preordain, then ponder, then brainstorm, and you get bs-locked, either you had terrible luck (by not seeing a single fetchland or the bussiness you needed in 10 cards) or there is something terribly wrong with the pilot.

Anyway, the order was not meant to be played that way, its just a "ranking" from best to worst cantrip in either situation.

The hole idea of playing trickbind its that (besides the split second, that of course its an upside but not that huge if you think about it, since if there are more than 1 activation of a single ability in the stack like, for example, sneak attack, tidespout tyrant or counterbalance, you only get to counter 1 of them) is that you can fetch it with fireminds foresight and not losing the card adavantage.

Let me be clear:

Scenario A, trickbind on the SB
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, Impulse, BS. Cunning for trickbind, then you are left with 1 impulse and 1 brainstorm.

Scenario B, trickbind on the MD (of course game 2)
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, trickbind, BS. Trickbind the ability, then you are left with cunning wish and BS

Im just saying, in one situation you are left with 1 BS and 1 Impulse on your hand, and in the other you are left with 1 Cunning Wish and 1 BS in hand. In which one would you rather be? I think the downside of having it (a dead card) in the md on games 2-3 is not that bad compared to its upside.

Trick bind game 2 is not "of course" because of the dead card situation. You actually dig far deeper with BS and Impulse. With that, I would rather have it always remain on the side than have that card sit in hand.

[Cave]

As for cantrips casting order, here's a 2-y-old post of mine.

As for Trickbind, if you run UB you barely need that card because you win in response to everything.

[Matsaya]

Trick bind game 2 is not "of course" because of the dead card situation. You actually dig far deeper with BS and Impulse. With that, I would rather have it always remain on the side than have that card sit in hand.

Depends on the situation. If you have omniscience on table you dig far deeper with brainstorm + wish->dig trough time.

[KobeBryan]

Depends on the situation. If you have omniscience on table you dig far deeper with brainstorm + wish->dig trough time.

Yes we know that. The. Situation was whether having trickbind in main game 2 is better or impulse

[dte]

Yes we know that. The. Situation was whether having trickbind in main game 2 is better or impulse

And it is what Matsaya was talking about: if you need trickbind and have wish post omni, you dig deeper by wish ==> FF ==> Wish (DTT) + BS + tricbind than with wish ==> FF ==> wish (trickbind) + BS + impulse.
As impulse is most often better than trickbind precombo, the question wether to put trickbind or impulse main in G2 rely on how likely you think you will need trickbind post omniscience. If you believe it's quite likely, then put trickbind main and 1 DTT SB.

[kuroko16]

Guys speaking about red splash in witch match-up you side in Young pyromancer and 1 Through the Breach?

[Dziga Murnau]

Guys speaking about red splash in witch match-up you side in Young pyromancer and 1 Through the Breach?

Youngsters are against Miracles and mirror. Breach is against mirror and Meddling Mages. But Breach as a wish target better stay in board.

[kuroko16]

Youngsters are against Miracles and mirror. Breach is against mirror and Meddling Mages. But Breach as a wish target better stay in board.

Isn't to slow wish for breach?

I love young against in miracles... There is another match up to side in?

[Varal]

Isn't to slow wish for breach?

I love young against in miracles... There is another match up to side in?

Pox, it can be hard to combo out with all their sinkhole and discard spells. They probably won't have sweeper and a Pyromancer should go the distance or at least seriously affecting their gameplan.

[famdoola]

Tourney Report


Hey so i just went 4-1 at my LGS out of about 30 ppl, not sure my exact standing cuz i had to bail and we split top 4, but yeah heres the list i went with.


4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Cunning Wish
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Enter the Infinite



4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe

4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Twincast

2 Crystal Vein
7 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Ancient Tomb


SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Curfew
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Sapphire Charm
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Swan Song





Round 1 :

BUG 12 post iteration 2-1

won g1 with an enter the infinite playing emrakul then bounciung back with curfew-discarding- and having perfect 7 to get him back again.
g2 -- just couldnt get there
g3 -- opened with leyline for his discard, and a good deal of business spells, found a boseiju and hte pieces, GG



Round 2 :

Countertop 1-2

g1 - dugdown 40 cards in my library, had to hardcast omni, it gets countered, too low on life to hardcast it again -- i resolved 2 DTTs during the match and had a boseiju and emrakul in hand to completely go off and yeah, real shit luck there.

g2 -- i force his turn 1 top, and then extract it, ponder - pass, turn 2 drop Defense grid with FOW, and i just dug my life away and finally got there.

g3 -- dug my brains out, already extracted his top on like turn 3, and like g1 just couldnt get there.



Round 3

Storm

G1. Most pieces in hand, he therapies a bunch but i just keep digging and getting them again, relatively easy game.

g2 - have spell pierce in hand so i just kept digging while leave a mana open to pierce any discard, eventually get there.

2-0


round 4

12post

g1 - get there and get there quick, SnT omni - FF -- wish -twincast- brainstorm --

double the wish get call/curfew attack for 30 GG


g2 -- was a wild matchup as i knew he had the krosan grip in hand after fighting through 2 thorns, cant remember the exact thing that happened but i know i misplayed horribly and rally shouldve won.

g3 -- Mull'd to 6 and got pithing needle, he starts getting his combo together then i drop needle on stage, slows him down enough for me to chaincantrips to get my pieces - before i can go off i pass turn -- he goes to get Life from loam, and i just can feel he has the Krosan in his hand so i forced it knowing he can only cast the Grip if he plays another land so it goes back to me and its GG.


Top 8



we decided to split for this, and played 1 game just to see who gets on the Top 4 board

U/R Delver

g1 - great opening hand, with probe i know he has FOWs 2 Daze and A DTT plus a bolt

so i end up just emptying his hand during counterbattle, keeping Omni/Emrakul in mine, knowing theres a DTT on top,

cast the DTT, get the Snt and GG




Was a pretty great night, finally broke my 3 consecutive 2-2's, and felt like i really SB'd correctly and chained the cantrips really well.

Twincast performed really well as dropping omni with a Twincast and either Wish/DTT in hand just makes it GG, whereas with Impulse its still up in the air, so right now i really love its versatility and am keeping it MD for the foreseeable future.

[Adan]

I like to ponder first. dig deeper. After i see two crappy cards, I can get rid of it without shuffling with the preordain.

The correct line of play would be either to Ponder, get a useful card, shuffle away the crap with a fetchland, then Preordain and see fresh cards, or other way around would be to Preordain first, scry away the 2 cards if they are unnecessary, draw the unknown one, then Ponder. This way you see up to 7 cards (2 from the Scry, the one you draw off Preordain, the 3 cards Ponder shows you and maybe a 7th if you decide to shuffle with it).

Your way shows you 3 cards with Ponder and one with Preordain as the Scry will show you known cards.

Trickbind is your best card against DNT

Actually Emrakul is the best card, Trickbind is only relevant if the opponent boards in Oblivion Ring. The worst card DnT - or any other deck with white - can bring is Ethersworn Canonist.

Even without Trickbind you can in principle win at instant speed against a CiP trigger since DnT is unable to win clashes when you have Dig Through Time, Omniscience or Emrakul floating on the top of your library. Force of Will may also work occasionally once they have fetched their Batterskull with SFM.

[Cave]

The correct line of play would be either to Ponder, get a useful card, shuffle away the crap with a fetchland, then Preordain and see fresh cards, or other way around would be to Preordain first, scry away the 2 cards if they are unnecessary, draw the unknown one, then Ponder. This way you see up to 7 cards (2 from the Scry, the one you draw off Preordain, the 3 cards Ponder shows you and maybe a 7th if you decide to shuffle with it).

Your way shows you 3 cards with Ponder and one with Preordain as the Scry will show you known cards.

I bring your attention again to my post in the High Tide thread.
Both preordain -> ponder and ponder -> preordain are correct, depending on what you want to achieve.
Deciding which sequence is stronger on a purely theorical view is pointless.
The first combination will give you the best overall hand quality (you get the best out of your topdeck), while the second will dig into the deck in a more efficient way (you don't get stuck with shitty cards on top).
This is of course valid in a no-fetch enviroment. Further shuffle effects will of course invalidate my theory here.

Edit: for those who are so lazy that they don't want to click.
Basically, if you have 2+ different cantrip spells in hand, you can have 2 situations:

a. I have bad hand quality (like, 2+ unneeded cards) and I want to improve: Brainstorm> preordain> ponder
b. I miss one specific card and i need to find it to win/or I will lose: ponder > preordain > brainstorm.

[Brentane]

Hey Omniscience players, I have a problem with this deck. I do love the idea behind it, the power of it, and how it is unique as well as being mono-coloured. My problem is it is way to powerful for my playgroup. On the rarest occurrence, one of my mates might win from my Show and Tell, but other than that they have no answers to the deck. It is getting to a point where it is to powerful for their liking to play against. Now the idea to stop playing the deck with them has come to mind, but isn't Legacy a format where you are suppose to practice your decks until you know them inside and out? Or is OmniTell considered straight forward enough that I should not worry about it as to me it seems to be an easy deck to master?

[Julian23]

If you're always playing against the same set of 2-3 players, things become pretty stagnant quickly if nobody adjusts their maindecks and/or sideboards.