[Primer] R/G Lands

[Rampart]

It depends on what type of miracles they are playing against as they are basically 4 types. Ponder, Legendary, Stoneforge and RIP. It also depends on how your sideboard is structured.

I normally leave in two personally, but if they are playing Stoneforge I might leave in more. I cut all of them if they are playing RIP

[Rivfader]

(Concerning black splash) I have been playing black for some time now, and only for 2 Abrupt Decay. I feel like they hold the middleground between Punishing Fire and Krosan Grip, and run them in a 3pf/2ad/2kg configuration (which opens 1 sideslot in comparison to 4pf/4kg).

I have casually tested Thoughtseize and Slaughtergames. Thoughtseize was very good when it resolbved, especially in addition with the spheres that slowed the game down. But often I held the discard without a black source in crucial first turns, which is why I don't try this anymore.
Tested Slaughtergames casually as well, but it's expensive and not synergistic with the spheres, which usually are boarded in in the same matchups. I had the best result with it versus Miracles, stripping plows and shuffling the top-3-cards away, and afterwards making a token.

[Dice_Box]

On Miracles: You have a ton of things to Side out but equally you have a ton you can side it. You just need to find the right balance, and the build matters too.

On the Black Splash: Jund Depths does it better. If that is the path you what to go, look at that as an example. I find Combo is built so much on one path and with one core that once you try and add more paths and cores, you look at causing conflicts in the flow of the deck.

[Rivfader]

On the Black Splash: Jund Depths does it better. If that is the path you what to go, look at that as an example. I find Combo is built so much on one path and with one core that once you try and add more paths and cores, you look at causing conflicts in the flow of the deck.

It's just a splash for sidecards, not like Junddepths which has black as it's primary color. There's no difference for the flow of the deck when running 2KG/2AD versus 4KG in the side. If you run Lands/Bayou through TCdecks, quite some results pop up, usually with Abrupt Decay, Slaughtergames and Bob, all in the side.

[lavafrogg]

I will say that through the first week of texting I am extremely surprised at how often and easy the deck just makes an early, turn 2-4) 20/20 and it is just good enough.

That coupled with gamble being a borderline unfair card and the deck is tons of fun to play.

That being said, this deck has shown me some of the most useles hands I have ever witnessed in magic and also has games where you actually do nothing.

[Chatto]

I will say that through the first week of texting I am extremely surprised at how often and easy the deck just makes an early, turn 2-4) 20/20 and it is just good enough.

That coupled with gamble being a borderline unfair card and the deck is tons of fun to play.

That being said, this deck has shown me some of the most useles hands I have ever witnessed in magic and also has games where you actually do nothing.

Jup, be prepared to take alot of mulligans! But with basically eight LftL's you can be back on track within no time

[Dice_Box]

I would warn against seeing Gamble as a straight analog for Loam. Loam being countered is a speed bump in your plan, Gamble is a road block. Just keep that in mind when playing.

[Chatto]

True, but most soft-counters can be played around. The only real hurdle would be FoW or targeted discard (on the draw). Most of the time, I do have a lot of 'luck' drawing LotL in my opener or first mulligan.

But hey, nothing beats a good gamble once in a while... Get it, Gamble, ghehehe *awkward laughing*

[Darkgobs]

Jup, be prepared to take alot of mulligans! [...]

This is true: you really shouldn't hesitate to mulligan with this deck, especially since:
1/ you've got no real cantrip to find the cards you need, like BS/Ponder (you can dredge with Loam, but that's not the same thing), so just waiting to blindly draw the right cards isn't a good plan (and actually one of the weakness of this deck.
2/ the deck mulligans pretty well, way better than a lot of other decks. And quite often the decent 5-cards hand I kept won me the game, instead of going with a mediocre 6-cards hand that don't do much, waiting for a good topdeck to show up (this is especially true post-board, or if you know what you're up against in G1).

So, as someone allready said here: you'll have to learn to mulligan with this deck. Because it's often needed and because the deck has a really good mulligan capacity. Just do it!

[door]

Hey, I've just taken the Saint-Petersburg legacy open! Discarding tha value cards with gamble the whole day, but made it nevertheless.
45 players
r1 Esperblade 2-0
r2 Jund with postboard Blood Moons 2-1
r3 Grixis delver 2-0
r4 Grixis control 2-1
id
id
top8 Miracles 2-1, won with the sudden death rule after 1,5 hrs
top4 DnT 2-0
finals Miracles 2-1

However still not satisfied with the Miracles matchup. Need more tuning.

The list was the same, sideboard changed slightly:
1 Dark Depths
1 Primeval Titan
4 Krosan Grip
2 Thalia
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Trinisphere
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor

[lavafrogg]

What does your white splash splash add? Are Thalia/canonist that much better than straight sphere of resistances? I can't imagine the 10 turn clocks they provide matter more than the color requirements or the additional strain on the mana base.

I think if you were adding white it would be for more than 1 enlightened tutor but I don't see enlightened tutors helping against miracles.

[lavafrogg]

Question: if you were playing in a mega with zero combo, what would your sideboard look like?

[Chatto]

Question: if you were playing in a mega with zero combo, what would your sideboard look like?

Zero combo would be nice I would probably splash black for 4 Dark Confidant. Not sure what other cards.

@ door: nice going!

[Rivfader]

Nice work, door! How were the Miracles matchups, did Worm Harvest come in handy?

[lavafrogg]

I'm a dick.... Great finish! Sorry I didn't say it earlier.

[Darkgobs]

The list was the same, sideboard changed slightly:
1 Dark Depths
1 Primeval Titan
4 Krosan Grip
2 Thalia
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Trinisphere
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor

Hey congrats for this nice performance!

I also have a few questions:
1/ Why play 2 Trinisphere over 2 others Sphere of Resistance, which seems to be better? SoR comes earlier, and the Trini are usually the 5th and 6th Sphere. What are your thoughts about this?
2/ Since you don't have a real toolbox (no EE, no Zuran, no Smokestack), is the 1 Enlightened Tutor really better than simply going for +1 Ethersworn Canonist/Thalia or +1 Sphere of Resistance? Against Miracle it seems to me that you are just increasing the odd of being countered, while trying to resolve a Sphere T2 seems a bit safer and, in particular, is less subject to Card Disadvantage and has simplier mana requirement?
3/ Also, you're playing 3 Crop and 2 Manabound in the 61. Don't you prefere the 4th Crop over the 2nd Manabound, especially since you are playing both Karakas and Bojukra MD?
4/ You play 2 Tranquil Thicket and 1 Horizon Canopy, but "only" 2 Depths. Would you consider cutting one Thicket for a 3rd DD maindeck (plus the 4rd in the sidebaord), or do you really need the extra mana for the Worm Harvest?
5/ Again, GG and thanks for your report!

@ Everyone here: Would you guys side the Karakas in (or keep it in the main) post-board against D&T?

[door]

Hey congrats for this nice performance!

I also have a few questions:
1/ Why play 2 Trinisphere over 2 others Sphere of Resistance, which seems to be better? SoR comes earlier, and the Trini are usually the 5th and 6th Sphere. What are your thoughts about this?
2/ Since you don't have a real toolbox (no EE, no Zuran, no Smokestack), is the 1 Enlightened Tutor really better than simply going for +1 Ethersworn Canonist/Thalia or +1 Sphere of Resistance? Against Miracle it seems to me that you are just increasing the odd of being countered, while trying to resolve a Sphere T2 seems a bit safer and, in particular, is less subject to Card Disadvantage and has simplier mana requirement?
3/ Also, you're playing 3 Crop and 2 Manabound in the 61. Don't you prefere the 4th Crop over the 2nd Manabound, especially since you are playing both Karakas and Bojukra MD?
4/ You play 2 Tranquil Thicket and 1 Horizon Canopy, but "only" 2 Depths. Would you consider cutting one Thicket for a 3rd DD maindeck (plus the 4rd in the sidebaord), or do you really need the extra mana for the Worm Harvest?
5/ Again, GG and thanks for your report!

@ Everyone here: Would you guys side the Karakas in (or keep it in the main) post-board against D&T?

Thank you, guys. I think I partly answered some of these questions earlier, but no problem.

1. Trini is better against Omni when put from Show and tell. Since I see much more Omnitells than Strom these days, I went that way.
2. Enlightened tutor is mainly against combo decks, not Miracles. Depending on a starting hand I have a choice of a Trini, a Sphere, a Choke or a Canonist. Being a "third" choke in a Miracles matchup and Grixis control is a nice bonus. Also in my experience Sphere does nothing against Miracles, while Thalia can attack, eat an StP. The games are very long sometimes and those attacks can matter.
3. I don't miss the forth Crop. It's so unreliable against blue decks. However, 4 crops are needed if you expect to face reanimator.
4. I cut the third depths long time ago and it's not connected with the drawing lands. More stable starts are better than some tiny % of a fast natural combo. Also I prefer more drawing lands for better plays around Deathrite and Surgical.

What does your white splash splash add? Are Thalia/canonist that much better than straight sphere of resistances? I can't imagine the 10 turn clocks they provide matter more than the color requirements or the additional strain on the mana base.
I think if you were adding white it would be for more than 1 enlightened tutor but I don't see enlightened tutors helping against miracles.

You can keep a hand with Thalia/Canonist without Loam, draw 1-2 wastelands/ports and win via 10 turns. But you won't win with the same hand with the Sphere, you'll need to find the wincon. Although I don't have white mana t1 all the time, that's the weakness indeed. I am still in a process of finding the balanced sideboard.

Question: if you were playing in a mega with zero combo, what would your sideboard look like?

smth like 3 Choke, 2 Titan, 2 Pithing Needle, Zuran Orb, 2 Depths, 4 Krosan Grip, 1 Ray of Revelation or Ancient Grudge. Or perhaps make a black splash and play 3 Grip, 3 Abrupt Decay.

Nice work, door! How were the Miracles matchups, did Worm Harvest come in handy?

Games with Miracles were tough as always. This time Worm Harvest didn't come, but I have no intention to cut it. It wins games sometimes, enough for 1 slot. If it comes in the first game against Miracles, they usually loose after that.

[lavafrogg]

Bam! Just traded 4 future sight goyfs for a tabernacle! Come on USPS!

[Chatto]

Bam! Just traded 4 future sight goyfs for a tabernacle! Come on USPS!

Welcome, my young and ignorant friend...

[barcode]

Played RG Lands at GP Vegas on Thursday and Sunday. Somehow on Thursday I managed to go 6-0 in games against Storm! Then I played Death and Taxes and then the pairdown vs. Miracles. Miracles assembled top/counterbalance early but couldn't find a 2. We played a 45 minute game where he eventually conceded to try and win game 2 and 3. He didn't and it ended 1-0-1 for me.

Sunday was more even. I punted vs. Infect (twice) and then had the 12-post pairing which I've never beaten.

Deck is still sweet and I'm happy to be playing it.