[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Lans89]

That statement must be my new forum signature!!

Last one guys, did you try Pyroblast against OmniTell? Is it better than Flusterstorm? It's difficult for Pyroblast to earn a place in my board, as I've been too much in love with Flusterstorm against that deck, but I'll try it out too.

I would stick to Flusterstorm. In a lot of situations it will be better than pyroblast vs Show and Tell, and you can even side it in vs discard and/or stifle decks or other combo =)!

[Lemnear]

I would stick to Flusterstorm. In a lot of situations it will be better than pyroblast vs Show and Tell, and you can even side it in vs discard and/or stifle decks or other combo =)!

You are missing the flexibility of also handling Delver, Counterbalance or Meddling Mages. It pointless to discuss Flusterstorm vs. Pyroblast just against S&T and just under the assumption that your opponent can not pay 2

[Lans89]

You are missing the flexibility of also handling Delver, Counterbalance or Meddling Mages. It pointless to discuss Flusterstorm vs. Pyroblast just against S&T and just under the assumption that your opponent can not pay 2

It looked like he wants to choose between those two cards, so I told him I would stick to Flusterstorm. Should have mentioned your point, I know they are not really comparable.

[Izor]

It's worth mentioning that Flusterstorm can be cast off of pretty much every land in the deck, including a basic land, while Pyroblast requires you to fetch up one of usually only 2 red duals.

Just saying. I personally don't like either of those cards in Storm. I'd rather just stick with Xantid Swarms, Discard spells and spot removal to deal with their interaction. Especially against Omni-Tell discard (+swarm post-board) is really all you need, in my experience.

[Ghiwo]

Of course I was referring to the two cards in the OmniTell match up, giving for established the upsides of Pyroblast against other decks. To be honest I don't know if I would need it against Meddling Mage, as I'm fine with Chain and don't want to overboard. Also I don't want to expose my Volcanic to Wasteland. I never tried it against Counterbalance, instead.

I know that you can win against OmniTell pretty much with just Xantids and discard, but in my experience Flusterstorm has been huge. They try to Show as fast as they can most of the time and Flusterstorm catches them almost always off guard. Maybe they can Fow a Pyroblast in this situation, but it does nothing against Flusterstorm. If I'll need room in my board Flusterstorm is one of the cards I'll consider cutting, of course. Maybe for Pyromancers..!

[Seldus]

When sideboarding against D&T or other aggro-control decks, is it better to take out just Preordain, or should Probe come out too, in favor of removal spells?

[Darkness]

When sideboarding against D&T or other aggro-control decks, is it better to take out just Preordain, or should Probe come out too, in favor of removal spells?

If you think the games are going long I favor taking out lotus petal as the cantrips dig you to answers for questions or combo pieces.

[Jonathan Alexander]

If you think the games are going long I favor taking out lotus petal as the cantrips dig you to answers for questions or combo pieces.

People, stop boarding out Lotus Petals. It's absurdly bad. Even more so in the context of a matchup where your mana is the main thing that's being attacked.

The first thing you board out against Death and Taxes is Duress. If you still have more good things to board in, take out Cabal Therapy. Note that Abrupt Decay is not good because of its mana cost. Good cards to bring are Chain of Vapor and Dread of Night. Massacre makes Ad Nauseam worse which is quite relevant in the matchup, plus the effect is not that great, but it might still be correct to board some copies if you don't have Dread.

[Stoyrm]

DnT now usually have maindeck Ethersworn Canonists, and after board they have tons of hatebears, usually 3-4 Canonist, 4 Thalia, some Spirits and RIP. I've been a fan of playing 2 Dread of Night (and if you have one in hand, it's usually incorrect to play it before you infernal tutor for the second), 2 Chain of vapor, 2 abrupt decay. The decays are definitely not great, and i'm probably gonna find a way to slot in a massacre instead. Anyway, I've usually been siding out: 3 Duress, 1 Cabal Ritual, 1 Past in Flames (if you play two). The last card i cut is either Lion's Eye Diamond (first card they revoker) or another cabal ritual.

I never cut Cabal Therapy against them, it's one of your best answers to multiple hatebears.

On another note, more testing against Miracles. Played a second Tendrils and tried the bear plan. I do not like the bear plan, it seems very weak. The second tendrils has been amaaazing though.

[godmodecomplex]

I have taken quite a long break from storm in an effort to actually play "more interactive" games of magic. However that break is over now.

As of recently i have fallen on tough times and decided to liquidate some of my decks. I came to the conclusion to only keep the deck i know the best. I decided to keep ANT in hopes to play it to the best of my ability in order to hopefully win back some pieces of the decks i sold. I am already off to a decent start and have crushed a few local events and am starting to build some store credit. here is the list i used in the past 2 events.

2 underground sea
1 tropical
1 bayou
1 volcanic island
4 delta
4 misty rainforest
1 island
1 swamp

1 ad nauseaum
1 past in flames
1 lim-dul's vault ***
1 tendrils
1 rain of filth
2 preordain
4 git probe
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 cabal therapy
2 duress
4 lions eye diamond
4 lotus petal
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual

board
2 teferi's realm
1 FOREST
1 empty the warrens
3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
1 chain of vapor
2 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm

***** lim-duls vault started as a temporary replacement for grim tutor. I have since purchased a minty fresh grim tutor (luckily a few weeks ago from a local player for a great great price). I have always disregarded the vault as a viable option due to a popular storm pilot's opinion, and i am really mad at myself for not trying it myself. I should have tested this card years ago because it has been great, its a situational swiss army knife. Vault ranges from vamp tutor to doomsday to a psuedo- storm engine when combined with gitaxian probe and brainstorm. lim-duls vault has impressed me every time, every time, every time. Then again the format is much slower then it used to be ad nauseaum is worse then it used to be, therefore i'm not too worried about the dis-synergy. lim-duls Vault is gross when you are flashing it back with 4 to 5 cantrips in the graveyard to go along with it by the way. Then there is the ill cast lim-dulls vault endstep, then brainstorm during my upkeep and then ill fetch to draw a fresh card which is broken. lim duls vault is a little powerhouse that i think has a bad rapport and i would encourage any one to give it a shot and see for themselves. I also would like to add that i have played a TON of doomsday and can pile on the fly pretty quickly so your mileage may vary but TRY it out yourself. When i cast vault I typically am not just looking for a card, but I am looking for a situation, or im looking for a brainstorm\probe plus a situation... maybe i have l.e.d.s in play maybe i need chaff to turn on thresh..... there are a ton of possibilities. Plus it is less life to a reveal then grim tutor, and when i am looking for a specific single card i seldom have to pay more then 1-2 life off of UNLESS i am looking to cantrip into the past in flames or the tendrils, then I likely do not care how much life i pay (10 max with a turn one natural tendrils leaving plenty of life for probes). The only thing i do not like about it is the fact that i bought the grim tutor and it will likely wont see sanctioned play for a bit.


My basic forest..... is what it is sometimes its very very good, sometimes it cant cast ponder or dark ritual. Bloodmoon out of stoneblade and miracles boards has me shook, i intend to have the game over before it matters buuuuut we all know sometimes it isn't over with when we want it to be. Some times games go long and they stick a bloodmoon, some times i fetch basic basic basic and can decay a cannonist and still not care if they stick a bloodmoon. The forest is also good against tempo decks with permanent based hate like meddling mage out of patriot delver or null rod out of rug. Super randomly good against veteran explorer as well, i know its a good match already but its still pretty cool.

Teferis realm dosen't impact the board immediately and it costs 3 mana and is rough off adnauseaum (once again adnauseaum isn't that good at the time being). get past its short comings though because teferi's realm dont care what death and taxes adds to their board after you cast it, it switches modes against miracles if it sticks i.e. one turn creatures one turn enchantments. Realm makes mud a joke if you can stick it before they cast lodestone. realm shuts down all permanent based hate. In a nutshell, if they do not have a clock it invalidates all hate. BEWARE if you do use it please understand that it is an enchant world and exactly what that means.

It feels good to be back on the darkside

This week I intend to try moving adnauseaum to the sideboard if it pans out I'm going to post back likely it will look like the list above minus adnauseaum plus a second past in flames or a grim tutor. And the basic forest will bite the dust. Imlve goldfished it a few times and I don't like it thusly however if it works I'll update my list.

[Lemnear]

***** lim-duls vault started as a temporary replacement for grim tutor. I have since purchased a minty fresh grim tutor (luckily a few weeks ago from a local player for a great great price). I have always disregarded the vault as a viable option due to a popular storm pilot's opinion, and i am really mad at myself for not trying it myself. I should have tested this card years ago because it has been great, its a situational swiss army knife. Vault ranges from vamp tutor to doomsday to a psuedo- storm engine when combined with gitaxian probe and brainstorm. lim-duls vault has impressed me every time, every time, every time. Then again the format is much slower then it used to be ad nauseaum is worse then it used to be, therefore i'm not too worried about the dis-synergy. lim-duls Vault is gross when you are flashing it back with 4 to 5 cantrips in the graveyard to go along with it by the way. Then there is the ill cast lim-dulls vault endstep, then brainstorm during my upkeep and then ill fetch to draw a fresh card which is broken. lim duls vault is a little powerhouse that i think has a bad rapport and i would encourage any one to give it a shot and see for themselves. I also would like to add that i have played a TON of doomsday and can pile on the fly pretty quickly so your mileage may vary but TRY it out yourself. When i cast vault I typically am not just looking for a card, but I am looking for a situation, or im looking for a brainstorm\probe plus a situation... maybe i have l.e.d.s in play maybe i need chaff to turn on thresh..... there are a ton of possibilities. Plus it is less life to a reveal then grim tutor, and when i am looking for a specific single card i seldom have to pay more then 1-2 life off of UNLESS i am looking to cantrip into the past in flames or the tendrils, then I likely do not care how much life i pay (10 max with a turn one natural tendrils leaving plenty of life for probes). The only thing i do not like about it is the fact that i bought the grim tutor and it will likely wont see sanctioned play for a bit.

You are looking at it from the wrong side imo. For the cost of LDV you can cast two cantrips to dig for Infernal and access PIF that way without carddisadvantage, but a higher efficiency of filling the graveyard. Unless your gameplan is to find a singleton card which negates the carddisadvantage like Ad Nauseam, it's straight better to use Ponder/Brainstorm/Preordain to dig for the 4-off Infernals. If your conclusion is that Ad Nauseam isn't the bees knees atm, LDV is pointless as well. Grim Tutor is also totally different as it will let you execute the PIF loop without Probes or blue mana unlike LDV. The card was tested and labeled outdated just as Doomsday. You can't jump through too many hoops these days to get cards going

[Madsk]

Sideboard:
3 abrupt decay
2 xantid swarm
2 flusterstorm
1 surgical extraction
3 Dread of night
1 ad naseum
1 burning wish
1 thoughtseize
1 chain of vapor

I played a grindingstation build with 3 ToA, 2 PiF and Grim tutorin in my two last local turnaments. Flusterstorms are new in the board, D o they come in vs miracles as well with abrupt and swarms?

Or is they "only" for belcher, tin fins, omnitell, sneak & show? (Decks that can be faster than us) guess it can have some use vs discard as well.

My board plan vs miracles so far
1 PiF, 1 cabal ritual, 2 duress and a land. Is what i normaly board out for abrupt and swarms.

1. Is 5 cards enough?
2. Can extra flusterstorm/surgical make it enough
3. Do i have to rearrange my board with 1-2 slots (city of solitude, sdt, xantid swarms, krosangrips etc)

[sawatarix]

The deck needs more playable cards on turn and the only good ones are ponder preordain and dark ritual.
I would maximize preordain before adding lim duls vault

[godmodecomplex]

I understand what both of you are saying, how ever what i am saying is that ldv has been absurdly good for me. every time i have cast it prior to past in flames its been a 2 mana vamp tutor. Every time i have cast it after past in flames its been a 2 mana gross machine.

I had never considered the aspect lemnear brought up of grim tutor being a single color to line up with rituals. Thanks, that is a pretty big deal and i will definatly pay attention to its relevance moving forwards.

Trust me when i say that every time ive drawn ldv i have weighed and considered what would be better then this card, the answer is seldom an easy one. i will say that i have had some situations arise where grim tutor would have been better same for a second past in flames, i have had several other situations arise where had it been anything other then l.d.v. it wouldnt have won the game. It has also baited a few counterspells out from opponents who either dont understand it, or were afraid of a double vamp tutor into multiple discard spells, or discard for subsequent turns.

I guess take it with a grain of salt though its only been 4 events and roughly 300ish goldfishes but ldv has been super duper awesome for me. Maybe its dumb luck or something because I shook off the rust from not playing storm probably about the first week or so and i feel really really confidant with it again.

[CabalTherapy]

ldv

Kai is right.
I tested this card two years ago and it was worse than Top, Preordain and Grim Tutor. Can't imagine it got better.
Nonetheless, if it works for you then it is, of course, ok to run it.

[d0nkey]

Kai is right.
I tested this card two years ago and it was worse than Top, Preordain and Grim Tutor. Can't imagine it got better.
Nonetheless, if it works for you then it is, of course, ok to run it.

This is pure results-based analysis, and it's wrong.

[Sloshthedark]

I understand what both of you are saying, how ever what i am saying is that ldv has been absurdly good for me. every time i have cast it prior to past in flames its been a 2 mana vamp tutor. Every time i have cast it after past in flames its been a 2 mana gross machine.

I had never considered the aspect lemnear brought up of grim tutor being a single color to line up with rituals. Thanks, that is a pretty big deal and i will definatly pay attention to its relevance moving forwards.

Trust me when i say that every time ive drawn ldv i have weighed and considered what would be better then this card, the answer is seldom an easy one. i will say that i have had some situations arise where grim tutor would have been better same for a second past in flames, i have had several other situations arise where had it been anything other then l.d.v. it wouldnt have won the game. It has also baited a few counterspells out from opponents who either dont understand it, or were afraid of a double vamp tutor into multiple discard spells, or discard for subsequent turns.

I guess take it with a grain of salt though its only been 4 events and roughly 300ish goldfishes but ldv has been super duper awesome for me. Maybe its dumb luck or something because I shook off the rust from not playing storm probably about the first week or so and i feel really really confidant with it again.

I also liked it and used it like 1,5-2 years back along with GT and 2 PiF for some time, the card is cool and decent at the time ( I like it with SDT vs BUG decks a lot), you clearly understand the "set up a situation" not a find a card and practicaly kill myself... the big upside is being an instant, this was major reason to run it, downsides of inefficient mana use (as I believe you have to spin wheels the fastest possible and be very mana efficient - typical question T2 do I BS+fetch (and maybe ponder/discard whatever) or pass with eot LDV?) and U color - it's a Pyroblast catcher in a deck where outside of early BS there is nothing to Pyroblast (and Opps misboard with this), not to mention otherwise T1/T2 kill openers with 2 color topdeck "tutor", not nice, also blind PiF get absurdly hard to play 100% correct once you have to take LDV into account... however the breaking point for me was card disadvantage, the deck loses a lot with it and I'm very hasitant about mulliganing already (it's not like 2010 when you mull 4 and kill T2), the opposition is harder - cards do more splash damage to Ant, the decks are stronger... In today meta it's even more obvious - you can't fight deck with advantage (Dig) with disadvantage (LDV) now - there is clear of old and new, in fact very similar cards - Dig has less digging power but +2 cards which is HUGE (need larger caps for that) unfortunately cost is too steep for Ant to run Dig... by the time I left LDV I found if Mystical Tutor was legal I'm surely not playing a playset...

you got me thinking on the Forest - do you often find Opps boarding Bloodmoon against you? Teferis Realms, I'd really like to believe it works...

[Narcind]

So I haven't played this deck for a while now, mostly been messing around with grixis control in local events, but I'll be going to a bigger event with decent prize support in a week, so I figured I might want to play ANT since it's what I know best.

So I have a few question since I haven't played the deck in a while: rain of filth, yes or no? 6 or 7 discard spells? Empty in main or side? Ad naus in main or side? What should my sideboard look like?

[JamieW89]

Played another small (16 people) local today.
r1: Miracles with hatebears & wasteland:
He played elves last time, apparantly he wanted to beat combo this time. g1 he has t1 sdt t2 cb on the play and I don't get through on my t2. The second game he has a similar hand but t2 tokens are sufficient. g3 I have Fetch,LP,LP,CR,LED,IT,BS and lead with LP into BS to either find probe/protection or bait a force and make tokens. He fows and tokens get there.
r2: Deathblade
He wins g1 off thoughtseize, shaman, pierce, scm->pierce, fow backup. If he hadn't pierced the first ritual in consecutive turns I'd have gotten a tendrils from hand kill. I win the postboard games where he has more hate with some luck, including a cantrip PiF which hits.
r3: ANT Mirror
Yeah, I was more lucky than he was. Not really an interesting matchup.
IDs into t4 split, play for some leaderboard points
SF: ANT Mirror (different guy)
He had the luck this time around. Although he tried to fuck it up in g3 really hard, he got there in the end.

Was playing a 4 Preordain list for the first time in years because it was doing quite well in some goldfishing runs with an average turn of well under 2.5 (was at 2.2 for a while, but stabilized at around 2.3-2.4 I think), below 20% mulligan rate and 10%ish to not kill by turn-3. If anyone measures these things; what do you guys get for average speed & fizzle rate (I don't count t5 or slower for speed, but count them as fizzled instead)?

[Sloshthedark]

Played another small (16 people) local today.
r1: Miracles with hatebears & wasteland:
He played elves last time, apparantly he wanted to beat combo this time. g1 he has t1 sdt t2 cb on the play and I don't get through on my t2. The second game he has a similar hand but t2 tokens are sufficient. g3 I have Fetch,LP,LP,CR,LED,IT,BS and lead with LP into BS to either find probe/protection or bait a force and make tokens. He fows and tokens get there.
r2: Deathblade
He wins g1 off thoughtseize, shaman, pierce, scm->pierce, fow backup. If he hadn't pierced the first ritual in consecutive turns I'd have gotten a tendrils from hand kill. I win the postboard games where he has more hate with some luck, including a cantrip PiF which hits.
r3: ANT Mirror
Yeah, I was more lucky than he was. Not really an interesting matchup.
IDs into t4 split, play for some leaderboard points
SF: ANT Mirror (different guy)
He had the luck this time around. Although he tried to fuck it up in g3 really hard, he got there in the end.

Was playing a 4 Preordain list for the first time in years because it was doing quite well in some goldfishing runs with an average turn of well under 2.5 (was at 2.2 for a while, but stabilized at around 2.3-2.4 I think), below 20% mulligan rate and 10%ish to not kill by turn-3. If anyone measures these things; what do you guys get for average speed & fizzle rate (I don't count t5 or slower for speed, but count them as fizzled instead)?

I have hard time believing this, in fact it's impossible imo, how many goldfishes+list please? If it's true, I'll play it in a heartbeat

I have my 2 Pif, 2Toa, GT on
7,84% 7,84%
28,76% 36,60%
36,60% 73,20%
15,03% 88,24%
11,76% 100,00%

T1-5 %, cumulative
avg. 2,941

by T4 2,667 11,76% fail


TES in current list on

13,33% 13,33%
32,00% 45,33%
24,67% 70,00%
12,67% 82,67%
17,33% 100,00%

T1-5 %, cumulative

avg. 2,887

by T4 2,444 17,33% fail


150 goldfishes both, very agressive, mull < 5% - every hand with a land/reasonable nolander played, EtW beating T2 SFM and every AdN cast = kill