[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ralf]

Do you care to tell more about those MU's that involved Blood Moon vs MUD and DeathBlade?

No hate here, just dropping bombs!

Well I was testing the Revenge Fit concept with some friends.

3 of them brought MUD among their other decks...
Don't ask me why.

So as a gentleman, I didn't say no to every last one of them when they asked me if they could play their robots deck...

Everyone and his mother was playing the 12 post mana base...
Damn.

Match 1 MUD Loss

G1 =I promptly concede to a T4 -> Ugin (1 cloud, 1 vesuva copying the cloud, 1 glimmer,1 waste if I remember well)

G2 = I deal with a chalice @1 with a decay soon followed by a Blood Moon. GSZ for Hunt and that was that.

G3 = Trini T1 and I faced a T2 Golem which went all the way to town...


Match 2 MUD Win

G1 = Trini T1 but I was able to dig out of the hole before him. Demigod dealt the last 15 points of damages. Niark !

G2= Chalice @ 1 while I was stuck on 2 lands and multiple veteran. Wurmcoil met the board, my head the sand...

G3= T1 Chaman, T2 Blood moon. The game slowed down but eventually krosan+ lili + demigod sealed the deal.


Match 3 MUD Win

G1= Chalice @ 1 followed by metalworker + greaves => Sundering Titan and that was that.

G2= T1 Chaman T2 Liliana T3 Huntmaster...Porno happened from there

G3= T3 Blood moon just before meeting Wurmcoil. He bricked on lands while being introduced to Mr Thrun and his big D.


Match 4 Deathblade Win

G1= Kolaghan dealt with a BSK. Thrun was a pain for Jace until he got removed by Lili. Deed the board twice including some TNN. Demigod FTW.

G2= T3 Blood after a wonderful T2 Vet + therapy (naming jace not hitting but grabbing a lili on the flashback). Not even a chance to come back in this game after that.

[Memories of the Time]

This Sunday i hope to manage to play my nic fit pod at a big tournament in Italy ^^
Somebody have a recent BUG Pod list? I've been testing and playing only junk ones since last year...

[Scott]

You don't really run it for mana denial -- you run it to fuck up Intuition, Infernal Tutor, Expedition Map / Eye of Ugin, etc. Just don't approach it from the standpoint of trying to screw with peoples' fetchlands. I assume that if I have Mindcensor out, it's never going to hit a fetch. In fact, if I can Mindcensor a fetch I almost never do -- if I boarded it in, there's bigger game that I'm hunting.

Essentially, I was hoping it would have some fetchland/VetEx application which it's obviously meh on, because without that traditional application, I found its impact to be a little low. I played too many games against Storm in which Infernal being turned off didn't matter, and the same with MUD and Forgemaster, Elves and NO/GSZ, Sneak and Intuition, etc. I also didn't like that it's not GSZ-able making it take up more space or be seen less. It's certainly great against 12-Post and it's a card I keep in mind, so I don't think a different conclusion is wrong.

[Bobmans]

...

Thank you for the insight of those Match-up's. I certainly agree that there a lot of archetypes out there suffering very hard from a resolved Blood Moon (prizes went thru the roof of Blood Moon this week??).
The only problem i am still having is shutting down my own grove/twotowers, but if Moon is the backbone of winning against impossible matchups then so be it. Example, against DnT shutting down Wasteland, Karakas (Mangara shenanigans) and Ports can be imprtant to stay ahead, but PFire looping is important here since it create a huge gap in the matchup.

I can understand where you're coming from saying you don't like my sideboard. Pernally i had it for a while now and i like that it had varied hate cards. That way i was able mix and vary depending the matchup. I wouldn't go with Krosan Grip cus i feel that with the main removal there is enough, plus i do not care to take out a random Omniscience. I'd rather go all out attrition and extract Show and Tell.
Pithing Needle was there for lands MU, but i found the card to be way more useful then that. In practice it named Griselbrand multiple times, a Sneak Attack, Aether Vial against DnT, while also Jitte but we should be doing Abrupt Decay on that. Also it named Inkmoth Nexus against Infect. And i would be happy to name Wasteland against any deck running Wasteland to continue doing Pfire Shenanigans. Pity i am only running one.
I will agree that running more Slaughter Games is the shit. That thing must be casted! Eveytime i casted it, my opponent was like: what?? Ok i am dead...
The trick now is balance. Personally i feel that with 2 Thoughtseize and 4 therapy is enough and i also feel that Extirpate is an important card against Miracles, Dredge (extracting Narcomoeba on the trigger is soooo good) and Reanimate. Beacause 2 of those runs countermagic, i prefer Extirpate over Surgical Extraction. Sometimes i wished i had Surgical Extraction to be able to tap out vs ANT or so. But bringing them in against Delver decks or other fast strategies can be fine to. Once it had me win (or prevented losing) because i extracted Abrupt Decay or Lightning Bolt. Or just tearing up Miracles with Slaughter Games, Extirpate and Eternal Witness.
Anyway is running 3 Slaughter Games next to 2 Extirpate not to much?
Also i have a split between Golgari Charm and Toxic Deluge. While charm works also against Enchantments (Sylvan Library or Rest in Peace), Toxic Deluge gives more reach. When i had Krosan Grip there to i saw them as 3 cards doing duty for 4 cards. I was always happy with the split.
While i agree we are not blue consistent i do believe you could seperate combo MU from non-combo MU, where for the combo MU you really need to see your sidebaord cards early game. And non-combo often shifts to lategame and seeing specific cards until then is no problem. So i feel that would justify running singletons.

Maindeck i will cut Vraska the Unseen. And i will stick with 23 lands going to 61. Removing Courser is a no-go. That card means card advantage. With a SDT you can like draw 2 nearly every turn and filter 2 cards for 2 new ones on top, making it more likely you will find what you need. Without SDT it will sooner or later start flipping lands that will not end up in your hand making more relevant draws as an effect. Plus the lifegain and body can be more relevant then expected. After i establish Veteran Explorer i almost always GSZ into Courser as my next GSZ target. That way i gain a large amount of adcantage and can go like removal, sweep, threat, cleanup. The card shifts the gear most MU's. SDT is the most important card here, but Courser makes it even better. Garantue land drops while drawing into more removal and having better card selection will most likely result into full board control.
Ok so loosing Vraska might mean i am bound against some large permanents and losing a way to alternative win a game (dodging life). Time will tell, i have a good feeling about Kolghan's Command. The card will always be a 2 for 1 and i feel it makes Krosan Grip less important out of the gaveyard. Maelstrom Pulse has been an important card. Taking out multiple Tarmogoyf's. One time even 3 Deathrite Shaman's, pfew... or multiple Needle (Sdt/DRS being locked). Also it has reach being able to take out Jace or Ugin or Batterskull. Not to say the least of tokens indeed. Hello Young Pyromancer.... Anyway having 2 Dragons and a Thragtusk means having lot of business in the high en of the curve.
I have some serious solid expectations about running 7 basics. Being able to ramp into basics without the risk of wasteland and staying ahead in the curve feels like a good thing (actually it felt i was missing it during some MU's). Also with 23 lands i might be able to gain more solid openings. Sometimes the manabase craps on itself. Opening with some solid cards like Carpet, Thoughtseize, Slaugter, Liliana, Swamp, Phyrexian Tower, Sdt. Even with Sdt never finding a green source...

Example. What would you do if you opened with Verdant Catacombs, Volrath's Stronghold, Veteran Explorer, Cabal Therapy, Green Sun's Zenith, Liliana of the Veil, Stormbreath Dragon versus a BUG Delver player game 1 knowing hes on BUG. Trying to avoid getting FoW and Wasteland? Which will happen obviously.

[Echelon]

Example. What would you do if you opened with Verdant Catacombs, Volrath's Stronghold, Veteran Explorer, Cabal Therapy, Green Sun's Zenith, Liliana of the Veil, Stormbreath Dragon versus a BUG Delver player game 1 knowing hes on BUG. Trying to avoid getting FoW and Wasteland? Which will happen obviously.

Simple. Fetch Forest, drop Explorer. Turn 2 drop Stronghold, GSZ for DRS, see if they want to waste a FoW on that (probably not, same goes for the Explorer T1). Even if it gets countered, they eventually attack with something and you chump with your Veteran. Hello, basics!

Admittedly, I run a manabase with 10 fetch, 7 basics, 3 duals & Tower + Arbor, but that normally does it rather well for me.

[Bobmans]

Simple. Fetch Forest, drop Explorer. Turn 2 drop Stronghold, GSZ for DRS, see if they want to waste a FoW on that (probably not, same goes for the Explorer T1). Even if it gets countered, they eventually attack with something and you chump with your Veteran. Hello, basics!

Admittedly, I run a manabase with 10 fetch, 7 basics, 3 duals & Tower + Arbor, but that normally does it rather well for me.

The trap here is that the T1 Vet is countered with FoW. A high price for such a simple card, but they will know that preventing us from establishing mana will result in tempo and advatage gain for them. On their turn they can fetch, USea and drop DRS. Your turn you can drop Stronghold and cast GSZ for 1, but Daze followed in Wasteland on Stronghold will probably seal the deal from BUG's players perspective.

[Echelon]

The trap here is that the T1 Vet is countered with FoW. A high price for such a simple card, but they will know that preventing us from establishing mana will result in tempo and advatage gain for them. On their turn they can fetch, USea and drop DRS. Your turn you can drop Stronghold and cast GSZ for 1, but Daze followed in Wasteland on Stronghold will probably seal the deal from BUG's players perspective.

I have yet to face the first opponent that counters the T1 Vet with a FoW. Games 2 and 3, Dazes are usually boarded out vs. this deck.

[Bobmans]

I have yet to face the first opponent that counters the T1 Vet with a FoW. Games 2 and 3, Dazes are usually boarded out vs. this deck.

Yes, it is an error to let Veteran Explorer hit the table. Their early game is strongest, g2/3 they ussually board out Dazes and some fow for more removal. But always they have trouble knowing how to board.
But a good opponent will know that Veteran Explorer is the most dangerous cards in terms of advatage. What i actually did was worse. I fetched Bayou into Veteran Explorer, hoping it didn't get countered and forcing him to waste the bayou. But it was a wrong thought. He FoW'd the Veteran Explorer and Wasted the Bayou (lost that game obviously). I asked him afterwards, would you have wasted the Bayou if i opened with Cabal Therapy instead? No he said. Because i would have needed to establish as much as possible to prevent being shredded by flashback therapy.

Edit: i am not saying that there is a best option here. Just saying that every approach has it pros and cons. Going for a basic could get you color screwed one way or the other, while going for bayou would be ideal if it stuck, but at the risk of mana screwing. In this very specific situation i would have gone for bayou/therapy, probably being the most logical choice against a known! opponent. Would Bayou into Explorer or Forest into Explorer be the safest against an unknown opponent. I always hate to see Swords show up exiling the explorer.

[Echelon]

I always hate to see Swords show up exiling the explorer.

This! Vs. any deck running white, I always Therapy before dropping Dora (if I can). I also believe people in my meta run roughly 12 to 14 Wastelands in any given deck, hence I try to fetch basics as often as I can.

[Bobmans]

This! Vs. any deck running white, I always Therapy before dropping Dora (if I can). I also believe people in my meta run roughly 12 to 14 Wastelands in any given deck, hence I try to fetch basics as often as I can.

But afraid of screwing myself going for going Swamp into Therapy. Which is not an even option an the play vs an unknown opponent. Also it would depend on the rest of the hand. Double color mana is always better, sometimes you just have that hand and say, it will be worse if i mulligan.

[Echelon]

But afraid of screwing myself going for going Swamp into Therapy. Which is not an even option an the play vs an unknown opponent. Also it would depend on the rest of the hand. Double color mana is always better, sometimes you just have that hand and say, it will be worse if i mulligan.

10 fetch ;)

[Bobmans]

10 fetch ;)

Which is not an option for PFire manabase. One could argue running
7 fetch, 6 basic as opposed of 6 fetch, 7 basics. Along with 4 duals, 4 grove, 2 towers which are all fixed, no matter what.
But first i want to run 7 basics. Got a feeling it is going to really solid here.

[Echelon]

Which is not an option for PFire manabase. One could argue running
7 fetch, 6 basic as opposed of 6 fetch, 7 basics. Along with 4 duals, 4 grove, 2 towers which are all fixed, no matter what.
But first i want to run 7 basics. Got a feeling it is going to really solid here.

Yeah, the PFire manabase is pretty demanding. You might have some trouble having the right colour at the right moment though. The manabase doesn't quite make the 14-initial-sources mark for every colour. Black might give you some problems every now and again.

[Holo_rip]

If i was running a red version of Nic Fit, i would try to squeeze in 2 maindeck copy of slaughter games. In any fit variation we have up to 2/3 flexible slot (walkers, utility, specific hate for our meta) and it can take this spot. This card is THAT powerfull against most of the field.

Heck, if it didn't pressured so much our manabase i would even play it in my gbw version (that would also imply running more deathrite shaman).

Also, for pod user, depending on the number of "utility" creature you have, one might think of reveillark !

[Memories of the Time]

CC5 drops for pod are, in my experience:
Thragtusk
Titania
Reveillark

Now i'm playing just 1 cc5 and 0 cc6 and my choice is Titania, because she can offer the most dangerous supply at the deck

[crush]

Anyone ever tested Tasigur in a Pod build? Speed ramping into a CMC7 creature seems pretty cool.

Some cool creatures are Pelakka Wurm, Avanger of Zendikar, Regal Force, Rune-Scarred Demon..

[Echelon]

Some cool creatures are Pelakka Wurm, Avanger of Zendikar, Regal Force, Rune-Scarred Demon..

Real men go for Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite!

Or use Gurmag Angler and shoot for Griselbrand.

Shambling Attendants into Iona, Shield of Emeria is probably a little bit too much to ask.

Add in a Fierce Empath and go from a 2 mana creature directly to Elesh/Griselbrand the following turn!

[Memories of the Time]

Anyone ever tested Tasigur in a Pod build? Speed ramping into a CMC7 creature seems pretty cool.

Some cool creatures are Pelakka Wurm, Avanger of Zendikar, Regal Force, Rune-Scarred Demon..

I'm really interested in these things, i wanna test after the tournament this sounday ^^

[Ancestral]

Well 7cmc creatures in pod could be too cute to work properly! You migh wanna try fpod chain instead for that order of thoughts

[Memories of the Time]

I think that tasigur/angler pod way could be a thing only in a Bug shield, where you can shuffle away griselbrand/elesh with brainstorm obv ^^